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Atom4geVampire

AtomAgeVampire's random questions

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Atom,

not sure if this was addressed before: in case the heroes defeat more than 1 corrupted citizen, there is no option to track that change. Perhaps that is not that difficult to implement. Minor thing, no priority by any means. 

 

Wrong thread man ;) (also, I thought only one corrupt citizen at a time was allowed?)

 

There are only one changeling leader. So one corrupted Citizen per quest. 

 

Unless he dies and then reinforces.

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Atom,

not sure if this was addressed before: in case the heroes defeat more than 1 corrupted citizen, there is no option to track that change. Perhaps that is not that difficult to implement. Minor thing, no priority by any means. 

 

Wrong thread man ;) (also, I thought only one corrupt citizen at a time was allowed?)

 

There are only one changeling leader. So one corrupted Citizen per quest. 

 

Well, master monsters can be reinforced..

 

 

*Edit didnt mean to spam, simultaneous post with zaltyre..*

Edited by Scharpes

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Yes, Zyla will be a pain in the **** in the campaign, she ignores almost 50% of the quest buffs for the Overlord hahaha I will definitely buy web trap for her, and use it when the player believe entering a hazard spaces is safe...muahahaha 

Edited by Volkren

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Strange Awakening is tough for the heroes- but yes, Zyla can fly right on by.

It just got mentioned in another thread so it got me thinking:

With the errata “The quest rules listed in the Quest Guides takes precedence over cards, abilities, and the rulebook" in mind,

wouldn't the fact that the quest rules say "pieces of rubble block movement and line of sight" overrule Zylas ability? ;)

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Strange Awakening is tough for the heroes- but yes, Zyla can fly right on by.

It just got mentioned in another thread so it got me thinking:

With the errata “The quest rules listed in the Quest Guides takes precedence over cards, abilities, and the rulebook" in mind,

wouldn't the fact that the quest rules say "pieces of rubble block movement and line of sight" overrule Zylas ability? ;)

 

Hahahaha now, that's abuse of "interpretation" my friend :P very clever of you. You can argue that, it is a valid argument (for me at least)...however, that won't stop her, specialy in that Quest, as she can still move through the obstacles in the tile...

Edited by Volkren

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Her ability is explicitly an exception to spaces which normally block movement. IHowever, if there were a quest rule that said something like, "if a hero enters a hazard space during this encounter, he is immediately defeated" I don't think Zyla could ignore that- because it would be an additional effect of moving into the space.

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Ok, a situation we had yesterday (and I didn't want to go through all the topics that came up when searching for dark charm):

 

I used Dark Charm on Zyla, our Necromancer, and used it to attack herself. She had the Reaper's Scythe starting weapon. She defeated herself.

Thanks to Dark Charm, she counts as a monster at that point. Does the "Each time you defeat a monster with this weapon, recover 1 damage" trigger, and so, does she stand up again?

 

Also, if you have a hero standing on Crumbling terrain (again Zyla) above a pit space, and a minion Broodwalker moves in adjacent, does the sludge terrain end up beneath the crumbling terrain as well?

Edited by Atom4geVampire

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I'm low on brainpower so at the outset, I'm going to say that both of these questions are FFG-worthy.

 

For reference:

 

"Heroes treat each space adjacent to this monster as a Sludge space."

"A space that contains crumbling terrain loses all other terrain types except for obstacles."

 

I'll answer your second question first, because it is easier. A space can simultaneously be two terrain types. Just like a space adjacent to a master broodwalker is both sludge and hazard, a space adjacent to a minion that is sludge can also be a pit. That being said, I'm pretty sure the crumbling terrain wouldn't override the sludge. An argument could be made for crumbling terrain being a "rulebook rule" and being overridden by the minon broodwalker's "card ability", but that may not be the intention of crumbling terrain, but that's up to FFG.

 

Defeat:

As per previous discussions, the defeat of a figure occurs during the resolution of an attack, during the deal damage step. Therefore, Zyla would still be a monster. Zyla is the figure performing the attack, so the "you" on the weapon's ability should hold. Therefore, the ability should  trigger.

 

However, there are two things that puzzle me:

1) How has this not come up before? Both the card and weapon are base game abilities.

2) It is the Overlord's turn, so he could choose to resolve her KO before resolving the weapon ability, or the weapon ability before her KO. I'm not certain exactly that would work. I need to do some checking.

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I've submitted both questions + the geomancer/watchtower thing from HoB to FFG.

 

or the weapon ability before her KO

But the ability can only trigger from her KO right?

 

Right- that second one can't happen. It's a really weird ability to have on your own weapon. I'm leaning toward she can't recover. anything, because once she's defeated it doesn't matter what her weapon says.

 

I miswrote that in my first response. Scatterbrained today.

Edited by Zaltyre

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Why is it weird? It is logical ability in a normal situation, where if she defeats a monster she gets 1 health back. Draining the life of the monster so to say with her weapon  (her starting weapon by the way)

It just becomes weird when she is under the effect of Dark Charm, where she effectively is treated like a monster, which she then defeats with her weapon... 

 

We ruled that she did not recover the damage, but that was only because she would be ko'd again by being next to a master broodwalker anyway.

 

I just remembered another small question. If a changeling uses the whisper (or whatever) ability and moves zyla, she still isn't affected by terrain right?

 

 

Anyway, web trap is a good way to deal with Zyla, and yesterday I used solidarity, pointed to Zyla's herosheet with her 1 might and fired off my web trap when one of the heroes was careless enough to move adjacent to all the other heroes. 4 heroes immobilized. Perfect! :D

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Zyla is not affected by terrain when moving with whisper, either. The "you" in the hero ability refers to the figure, not the player.

What is weird about the reaper scythe ability (in this case only) is that the figure holding the weapon is also the figure being defeated.

Edited by Zaltyre

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Aha! After some thinking Atom I would say I will have a solution to your question (about Dark Charm vs Reaper's Scythe)

 

See, at first I was curious too, how did FFG missed this. Well, the thing is the timing effects and word interpretation.

 

I used Dark Charm on Zyla, our Necromancer, and used it to attack herself. She had the Reaper's Scythe starting weapon. She defeated herself.

Thanks to Dark Charm, she counts as a monster at that point. Does the "Each time you defeat a monster with this weapon, recover 1 damage" trigger, and so, does she stand up again?

 

First, as you stated, she performed the attack while being treated as a monster. “However, if at any point during an attack all affected figures or the attacker is defeated, the attack is immediately resolved without performing any additional steps.” (Page 3 of Zaltyre’s Glossary Terms). This in the part of attack resolution.

 

Additionally, in page 13 of the Core Rulebook it is said “when a monster or a hero suffers damage equal to its health (the one represented in their sheets or card) it is immediately defeated, in case of heroes knocked out, see page 15 ‘knock out’”. (I would edit this quote when I arrive home to have the actual text quoted).

 

So then, the Knock Out section says “when a hero is defeated, it immediately suffers fatigue equal to his stamina, damage equal to its health (in case of being defeated by other means) and the figure is replace with a hero token... The Overlord immediately draw an Overlord card.” (Also, I will edit this quote).

 

From the sentences quoted above, there are 3 effects that happen before any other effect:

1.      Suffering damage and fatigue equal to the figure (in this case, the hero) stats.

2.      Replacement of the hero figure for the token.

3.      The overlord drawing a card (or gaining a token, due to the rule for substitution) for knocking out a hero.

 

Therefore, the key term here is the word immediately, which causes that any timing problem to be hierarchized into time prioritization.

 

This relates to the topic because at the moment Zyla suffered damage equal to her health she was defeated, and due to the interpretation done above, the 3 immediately effects will trigger, transforming her from a monster into a hero token, and then, not triggering the effect of the Reaper's Scythe due to a mistiming event.

 

Otherwise, if a precedent is set for under the interpretation of her being treated as a monster uder that circumstances, then you could have this other problem: “Death’s Hand” tainted card would also trigger.

 

In conclusion my friend, I will say that no, the Reaper's Scythe effect won’t trigger due to a mistiming event, and then, Zyla would be, as any other hero should be in those Mistlands,  :ph34r:  DEAD muahahahaha

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The card/ weapon timing is interesting on its own- but I totally forgot you were in the Mists- she clearly will not stand up. Reasoning:

 

1) In order for the weapon ability to trigger, Zyla must be defeated (it's the trigger).

2) When Zyla is defeated, her tainted card flips up (or otherwise is already up).

 

As long as the OL (whose turn it is) resolves flipping up the tainted card first, Zyla's weapon ability will not work regardless of any timing issue (since she can only recover wound from untainted heroes or heroic feats while KO, and the weapon ability is neither.)

Edited by Zaltyre

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Official answer time! *Drumroll*

 

 

1) In your example, it comes down to the decision of the active player. Because Zyla is both the figure performing the attack and the figure being defeated by the attack, as soon as she is defeated the attack ends. However at the same time, when she is defeated, her Reaper’s Scythe ability also attempts to resolve. Therefore the active player may choose which to resolve first. Either the Reaper’s Scythe, which allows the defeated Zyla to regain 1 Health, or the end of the attack due to Zyla’s defeat, at which point the ability on Zyla’s weapon would no longer be applied and she would not recover 1 health.

2) The intent is that crumbling terrain should override the ability of the Broodwalker. I will look into how to make that clearer in the next FAQ.
3) Yes, the Geomancer can summon his stones on the unique green spaces. So long as the stones remain undefeated at the end of the overlord’s turn, goblin archers could not be reinforced.

 

 

3) While that is technically not "moving into" I'd wager 25g (may be paid in the form of a health potion) that the loophole is unintentional, and should not be exploited. That is, I would house rule "no".

 

Will that be cash, or potion? ;)

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Official answer time! *Drumroll*

 

 

... at which point the ability on Zyla’s weapon would no longer be applied and she would not recover 1 health.

...

 
Aha, see mistiming. However, I like more the answer Zaltyre posted, it is more practical. 
 
Anyhow, it will be interesting to see how they will rule the Crumbling Terraing vs the Broodwalker.

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In Bilehall, a lot of lieutenants become unconscious, instead of defeated when suffering damage up to their health. Does that mean that the whole mountain of conditions they have by then does not go away?

 

In the first quest of nerekhall, a hero can pick up multiple iron bindings if he wanted to, right?

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1) It varies from quest to quest, so make sure you read the rules- but if it equates "unconscious" to KO, the conditions would go away. Also, unless it says it's not being defeated, suffering wound equal to your health is the definition of being defeated.

 

2) Unless there is a specific restriction on picking up the binding, a hero may pick up more than 1. 

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Yeah, it says 'he is not defeated' but it seems a bit 'unfair' that conditions don't go away at that point, especially in Shattered Schemes, where the only way for Ardus to get health back is 'The master fleshmoulder's Heal ability'. Which is 3 max.

And why not just make it 'a monsters Heal ability' then at least Dark Priest could have been useful as open group for example.

 

That said: for those of you who played the Bilehall finale, what did you think about it? Especially encounter 2A. Seems a bit too easy that flipping one of the statues or whatever does not cost an action.

To start out 2 groups aren't placed on the map at the beginning, so the bottom part of the map is practically undefended, and hero's can just wipe out the top of the map in one turn, and keep one hero there who just runs between both tokens and can flip them without spending any actions or fatigue, and thus easily preventing any respawns there, ever. Meanwhile the three others just move on to the bottom part where 2 (3 if you're lucky) monsters of your other groups have spawned and thus not really pose any threat to the heroes. And then they can use the same tactic where one hero blocks both statues there and you're done for, without a chance of a fair fight :)

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Yeah, it says 'he is not defeated' but it seems a bit 'unfair' that conditions don't go away at that point, especially in Shattered Schemes, where the only way for Ardus to get health back is 'The master fleshmoulder's Heal ability'. Which is 3 max.

And why not just make it 'a monsters Heal ability' then at least Dark Priest could have been useful as open group for example.

 

That said: for those of you who played the Bilehall finale, what did you think about it? Especially encounter 2A. Seems a bit too easy that flipping one of the statues or whatever does not cost an action.

To start out 2 groups aren't placed on the map at the beginning, so the bottom part of the map is practically undefended, and hero's can just wipe out the top of the map in one turn, and keep one hero there who just runs between both tokens and can flip them without spending any actions or fatigue, and thus easily preventing any respawns there, ever. Meanwhile the three others just move on to the bottom part where 2 (3 if you're lucky) monsters of your other groups have spawned and thus not really pose any threat to the heroes. And then they can use the same tactic where one hero blocks both statues there and you're done for, without a chance of a fair fight :)

I've played it, and unless you have a hero with speed 5 and no fatigue ever, I do not think there is a way you can go between both top statues in one turn, all the time. Also, you hero needs to be empowered to be able to flip tokens, so if the OL did his choosing right, he should have gimped your scout in Encounter 1.

 

Getting control of the statues is how the heroes win this one. If you don't have 2 empowered heroes, this quest can be really hard

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The hero was Lindel, who I believe has 5 speed, yes. And where would he get fatigue? He just stayed there from the beginning. I had almost killed him during those first turns, but the Reanimates and broodwalkers were easily dispatched with by then.

Since no monsters ever got all the way up there, and there is no respawn on the entrance or anything, nothing stood in his way.

 

3 heroes were empowered by the way

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The hero was Lindel, who I believe has 5 speed, yes. And where would he get fatigue? He just stayed there from the beginning. I had almost killed him during those first turns, but the Reanimates and broodwalkers were easily dispatched with by then.

Since no monsters ever got all the way up there, and there is no respawn on the entrance or anything, nothing stood in his way.

 

3 heroes were empowered by the way

I had Lindel too...

And the fatigue would be to allow you to go from the white, to the green or back again.

 

We only had 2 empowered heroes, but one was Lindel, the other was our Healer, who wore the Undertaker's coat.

 

This guest was not a pushover. Our OL Kamikazee'd Ardus, to open the blast doors, and send in some of his reinforcements who managed to immobilize Lindel: our healer did not have move 5... :o  out came the reanimates.

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Lindel just started his movement adjacent to one token every turn. 

Flip token - move action - move action - flip other token. Repeat x10.

 

He never needed fatigue to bridge the distance, that's why I asked where he would ever get that fatigue from :)

And if he did somehow get it, it wouldn't matter :)

 

So three heroes moved down, Killed the few fleshmoulders that had managed to spawn, killed my open group in one turn, and then used the same tactic for the tokens at the bottom.

Meanwhile they easily killed Ardus (In fact he was even killed by Lindel using Chosen Target and then using Evil Eye every turn, a bit of a cheap skill as well :P ) and then finished Kyndrithul who had nowhere to run.

 

I'm not saying that I didn't play/roll terribly, or that the heroes did not play well. I just felt that the mechanics of the objective tokens (be it that they take no action, or the fact that they are within 2 move actions distance of each other) a little too easy for the heroes. A reinforcement on the entrance would go a long way in solving this in my opinion. (Even if it was some wimpy monster)

Edited by Atom4geVampire

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