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Killionaire

Neb-Bs: Best Rebel Ship?!

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We all played the first few core set games and experienced the insane fragility of the Nebulon B Frigate's sides. For a lot of players (myself included) this lead to me sidelining the ship as I always felt the CR90 got more done over the course of the game.

 

Now that I've played more 300s, and especially more 400s, I can see the true power of the Nebulon.

 

Salvation is a monster. For only 13 points more (Salv + X17s), it outguns any ship in the game currently at Range 3, and outguns all but a VSD2 at Range 2! Having that 'each crit does an additional damage' means your red dice are just damage beasts. 

Normal Red Dice: 2x Crit, 2x Hit, 1x Double Hit, 1x Acc, 2x Blank

Salvation Red Dice: 2x HitCrit, 2xHit, 1x Double Hit, 1x Acc, 2x Blank

This means each Red dice is worth .75 expected damage, each Salvation die is worth 1 expected damage. Since blue dice are also worth .75 expected damage, this means:

 

Neb (any range): 2.25 expected damage (3 if you concentrate)

Salvation (any range): 3 expected damage (4 if you concentrate)

VSDII at range 2: 4.5 expected damage (5.25 if concentrated).

 

That's damned cost effective, considering that Salvation costs perhaps 1/2 to 2/3rds of a loaded VSDII. Not to mention Evade is crazy effective at long range, or with Mon Mothma at medium (IMO, Mon Mothma is best rebel commander by far right now. She saves you way more damage than wussy ol' Motti ever would save the Imps.)

 

Let's not get into the amazing power of multiple 2-dice anti-squadron ships. Just two or three of those on the field will clear the board of any and all TIEs in just a few activations, hero or interceptor or not: Just tie them up long enough with your own boys. I'm not going to get into Yavaris either, as that ship has a whole set of tactics in how it's used.

 

---

 

Now, I think the key with Nebs is not only do you NEVER use speed 3 (always start at 2 and downshift to 1 when necessary), but you always concentrate fire or use squadrons when in combat, bearing down on one target you want to destroy. With X17s, you'll burn through the one facing in a head to head match as multiple smaller attacks are unlikely to be heavily reduced from Brace tokens, and Redirects are nearly useless with X17s on the field.

 

You need to always field them in pairs. Two Nebs cost about as much as 1 VSD, and will win the head to head engagement as long as you're cruising at speed 1, or even speed 0.

 

If the fight gets to a real slug-out, an Engineering command isn't really a bad idea. But don't worry about regenerating lost shields... transfer your rear arc forward and to downed sides, and maintain bombardment! To prevent the enemy from bumrushing you, it may be reasonable to fly fighter-bombers defensively, or to have the AF2 running interference.

Edited by Killionaire

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it's not the best, it's just head on the hydra composed also of the corv and the fattie :P

 

 

 

the sides issue is just a part of coming to terms with the ship, the only real deficiency I find difficult to overlook with the neb is squadron 2. There's only one raymus and he's amazing for both titles (because he's just an amazing upgrade in general and those titles are amazing, so really it can only get better) unless you count the **** raymus (vet captain)

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I think it's just for me, the realizing that a pair of Neb-Bs driving slow is far, far stronger than twice the value of a single Neb. With 6 red dice forward, you have a real chance in two turns of killing a VSD head-on, as opposed to just getting run down and massacred. It also protects your flanks a little by having a pair.

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Having just had my butt handed to me by Salvation, I'm finding a new respect for the Snipeulots-B.

 

wait till you run into her sister, yavaris

 

better yet, both of them together ^_^

 

it's a bit obscene really. They pack a lot of long range fire (esp salvation) and then yavaris B-wings turn into mini-victories when you get close :P

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Having just had my butt handed to me by Salvation, I'm finding a new respect for the Snipeulots-B.

 

wait till you run into her sister, yavaris

 

better yet, both of them together ^_^

 

it's a bit obscene really. They pack a lot of long range fire (esp salvation) and then yavaris B-wings turn into mini-victories when you get close :P

 

 

:blink: (shudder) My roommate discovered to his glee the value of well-kitted Nebs and CR90's, and the value of winning the bidding war. It was pretty brutal. I gave a good fight, and the game did come down to a 1 damage winner takes all scenario (one more damage, just one more damage on that evil Salvation and I'd have had him), but he was a lot more cunning and brutal on me this time (and I was too cautious). Which is good, it was a well fought game. And he finally has his first rebel victory against me!

 

Salvation + second player on Advanced Gunnery is EEEEEEEEVIL!

 

Poor Admiral Sureyaknow's VSD got eaten by it and some corvettes.

 

I imagine things are going to be more challenging now that he has a better handle on the game. ;)

Edited by Deathseed

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Sure, but then you have a bit of a rock paper scissors issue with the GSD. A decently loaded GSD with engine techs costs a little more than a Neb-B, but can go from out of range to ouch range in a single activation, and also unload enough of a payload that same turn to one-shot a Neb-B. I agree that a lot of these ships are useful, but I just got home from a tournament where the top build was a 2xVSD-I and a moderately tricked out GSD with no figher screen. It absolutely MURDERED the rebel aces builds it came up against, even when Yavaris and bomber were plied to full effect. Worst round it played it won a 7-3 game because the bombers managed to kill a VSD, but 3 rounds of 5 the GSD was the only loss after decimating anything mobile on their side before going down or parking in front of an AF-II so the VSDs could eat it for breakfast.

 

Edit: Minor clarity and spelling corrections.

Edited by CobaltWraith

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wait till you run into her sister, yavaris

 

better yet, both of them together ^_^

 

it's a bit obscene really. They pack a lot of long range fire (esp salvation) and then yavaris B-wings turn into mini-victories when you get close :P

 

Why not all three!?!  Redemption and a saved Engineering token keeps the other two in fighting trim, and her lower target priority in terms of raw damage output makes her a good flagship.  I took 1st out of 16 last week with triple Nebulon-Bs; the only player there without a medium ship, to boot!

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Idk redemption just strikes me as the least impressive

 

plus there isn't an awful lot of room for squadrons with 3 nebs loitering around. 2 Nebs + a CR-90a gives you 197 points in cap ships (general - D + yavaris, Raymus + salvation, both in escorts)

 

OR general -D in yavaris, Raymus + salvation on a support refit, and just a naked escort w/ 4 A-wings and 3 B-wings for 290.

 

maybe at 400 I'll give redemption another spin

Edited by ficklegreendice

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Ok so you take redemption Mon mothma and then a bunch of corvettes with engineering team on them and make a bunch of cr90s with a engineering value= to a victory... Not sure how effective it will be but I still want to try it(or rather see someone try it since I only play imps)

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I always liked the design of the ship anyway, but a key part of why I always take a couple is its flexibility.  Salvation and Yavaris can directly engage enemy ships, cause serious damage to fighter screens and coordinate their own squadrons depending on the situation, as well as having the speed to disengage if they become heavily damaged. Admittedly it doesn't turn that fast and it has huge weak sides, but those side arcs are good for clearing fighters and the double brace tokens and an evade give it a good chance of mitigating any single strike at long range.

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This post renews hope in using a Neb B. I like both salvation and Yarvaris titles. But I'm having a hard time deciding which one I want to use along side my AFII

 

Depends on the AFII I think. If you go Paragon on an A, go with the Salvation. The combined firepower there is terrifying. Put Advanced Armaments on the Paragon, XI7s on the Salvation, and just dare your opponent to take Advanced Gunnery.

 

If you're going with the Gallant Haven on a B, Yavaris is the obvious choice since you're obviously going squadron heavy (if you're not, why the hell are you talking these titles?!). Nab Adar Tallon and throw him on the Gallant Haven. That way you can activate a squadron with the Gallant Haven, move and attack with the squadron, and then activate again with Yavaris for the double tap (triple tap if you include the first activation)! Just imagine that with a B-Wing. You're pumping out 3 blue and 3 black in a single turn from a freaking fighter.

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I was pushing the Neb on BGG. Don't be all consumed by the titles. You can get a great list with 3 Neb-Bs and a CR-90 plus your squadrons to taste. The B-wing really shines with this list as it's speed is not a factor as you should be walking your Neb-Bs in at speed 1.

The four ships of this list put out 11 red dice at range three, 15 if you took coordinate fire actions.

As for monster GSDs taking out your Neb-b easily, not quite so fast. If the imperial took first player they better be playing a three ship list. If it's just two, then their VSD goes first, I shoot the VSD and move my corvette. They attack my corvette with the GSD, then all three Nebs plus B-wings pour their fire into the GSD taking it out. Even the three ship imperial lists still let two of my Nebs fire afterwards.

Killer-Bs

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wait till you run into her sister, yavaris

 

better yet, both of them together ^_^

 

it's a bit obscene really. They pack a lot of long range fire (esp salvation) and then yavaris B-wings turn into mini-victories when you get close :P

 

Why not all three!?!  Redemption and a saved Engineering token keeps the other two in fighting trim, and her lower target priority in terms of raw damage output makes her a good flagship.  I took 1st out of 16 last week with triple Nebulon-Bs; the only player there without a medium ship, to boot!

 

Oooh, nice!  Would you mind sharing your list with us?  

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I loves those red dice from Salvation. They are better than Black dice, and the work at Long range (extra accuracy compared to blacks)

I have rolled 8 damage with those dice, with an Intel agent. Though I think the ideal roll is six damage (and critical) with 1 accuracy. This blocks the brace token. But Intel is a good second option.

At 400 points I can see the Tantive 4 being quite helpful as a source for the other titled Neb B, in addition to Raymus. (Yavaris with squadron token and Salvation with concentrate fire every turn!)

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There is always one person telling us we can't take a NebB because a GSD one-shots it. But, the math doesn't add up.

First, the GSD either needs Initiative or the Demolisher title to be at Black die range without taking fire first.

Then, assuming they get to Close range on a side arc without getting blasted, it needs to get eleven damage minimum in one shot on a max of seven dice that average a miss 25% of the time, or they need six damage and two Precision results on dice that give you a 1/8 chance of it. All this on ships that average about 8 damage a round.

I think it's just Imperial propaganda to keep you from bringing your NebB to battle.

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There is always one person telling us we can't take a NebB because a GSD one-shots it. But, the math doesn't add up.

First, the GSD either needs Initiative or the Demolisher title to be at Black die range without taking fire first.

Then, assuming they get to Close range on a side arc without getting blasted, it needs to get eleven damage minimum in one shot on a max of seven dice that average a miss 25% of the time, or they need six damage and two Precision results on dice that give you a 1/8 chance of it. All this on ships that average about 8 damage a round.

I think it's just Imperial propaganda to keep you from bringing your NebB to battle.

You can do it, but it does require luck / poor positioning.

Worst case is expanded launchers Demolisher. Throw 4 black dice and two red dice out the front. Get two accuracies on the red dice to block the braces... Then with luck you get 6 damage from the black dice, which is in the realm of possible. Neb goes down.

Realistically, with the above ship, average damage is 5.5, add a cd command and you get 6.5 damage, with a max of 14 (double hits all around omg!).

So yes, it can one shot a Neb B. Now that you know it, play it smart.

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There is always one person telling us we can't take a NebB because a GSD one-shots it. But, the math doesn't add up.

First, the GSD either needs Initiative or the Demolisher title to be at Black die range without taking fire first.

Then, assuming they get to Close range on a side arc without getting blasted, it needs to get eleven damage minimum in one shot on a max of seven dice that average a miss 25% of the time, or they need six damage and two Precision results on dice that give you a 1/8 chance of it. All this on ships that average about 8 damage a round.

I think it's just Imperial propaganda to keep you from bringing your NebB to battle.

 

basically

 

problem is the GSD gets close to one-shot territory, which means a few more black dice (generally from rhymer) will set your neb up for the oneshot

 

it's not foolproof, however, because the Neb is almost certainly worth less than the demolisher and if you end up exchanging ships you'll just come out ahead in the end anyway

Edited by ficklegreendice

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Oooh, nice!  Would you mind sharing your list with us?

 

It's as much about the strategy and the maneuvering as the list, really.  Nebulon-B Escort Frigates have a lot of strengths, but they're difficult to all use at once.  The more strengths you can put into play at a time, the more efficient a Nebulon-B becomes.

 

Careful maneuvering can put enemy ships in your fore shield zone when they activate and fire, but then let them straddle your fore/side firing arcs for your answering salvo before you turn to protect your flanks again.  Keeping your fighters close draws enemy squadrons into your side arcs for anti-squadron fire, and if you're careful with your activation order a tight formation can put several overlapping barrages into the squadron engagement without obstructing or overlapping itself.  A well thought-out (and flexible) activation order also helps alter your opponent's target priority, which lets you get the most use out of Engineering commands and squadron activations.

 

The important thing is to use each of their abilities in a way that emphasize the others' strengths and covers their weaknesses.  The same is true for upgrades; they should focus on making the fleet stronger rather than the individual ship.  That's why I like Redemption as a flagship, her ability isn't as intimidating, so you can put more points on her while keeping her a lower priority target.  Garm Bel Iblis and Engineering Teams mean that tokens can hold you together so you can issue more Squadron commands to increase the effectiveness of your fighters.  Adar Tallon then repeatedly sets up double-taps for Yavaris while Salvation Navigates to keep her fore battery in play, and so all three ships are making good use of their abilities.

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I don't believe in Redemption. Engineering bonus is nice, but Nebs don't last long enough to make use of it. Your standard 3 eng (which is quite good!) is more than enough. Regen 1 shield, Transfer 1. It still doesn't overcome your main weakness, which is a flank hit.

 

Salvation I believe in, it's so cost effective. Nothing provides so much firepower except expanded launchers, and certainly nothing is as cheap or does it at range2/3!

 

Yavaris is situational. IMO, you shouldn't try to build card synnergies to try and pull it off, but just be glad when it does happen and look for those opportunities. It gets expensive fast, to the point where you could have just brought another X-Wing.

 

You really need to run them in pairs to overcome their weaknesses, and alternate between Concentrate Fire and Squadron, depending on board state most of the time. Going at speed 1 is fine. I also adore Tantive or Leia, in allowing me to rapidly change plans when I need it. I run a CR90B just solely to be 'command ship' for these reasons.

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There is always one person telling us we can't take a NebB because a GSD one-shots it. But, the math doesn't add up.

First, the GSD either needs Initiative or the Demolisher title to be at Black die range without taking fire first.

Then, assuming they get to Close range on a side arc without getting blasted, it needs to get eleven damage minimum in one shot on a max of seven dice that average a miss 25% of the time, or they need six damage and two Precision results on dice that give you a 1/8 chance of it. All this on ships that average about 8 damage a round.

I think it's just Imperial propaganda to keep you from bringing your NebB to battle.

 

Nah, this is Imperial propaganda (i.e. truth)

 

explore-the-galaxy2.jpg

 

5-N8pZfyn.jpg

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Hmmm, this thread makes me want to revisit my Neb Bs. In my first few games they were always the first to go down, even slowing down and trying to engage at maximum range. And once Wave 1 hit I was intimidated by the GSDs for Imp matchups, and my own AF2 murdered a Nebs front arc in two side volleys just today. At the point difference I've been fielding Corvettes instead...but maybe it's time to try something different.

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