Has anyone figured out how to beat the rebel bomber build?

[ThisOtherGuy 1]

At this point in my playing of this game, I feel like i dont have a chance against 2 whales and B's/X's. activate 3 squadrons activate a fourth, one attacks again. add a black dice at long range, then add another. cant use brace, cant use redirect. oh you took a crit? i get to choose. oh and the fighter screen i brought to deal with bombers? taken out first salvo. now I know my fleet wasnt the best, but how are you supposed to deal with all the rebel cheater cards and bombers? it wasnt a contest... and i have seen this rebel build table everything it faces. smh.

[swissjak 13]

Do you have any more details on the specifics of that list?

[clontroper5 4,233]

Be aggressive, gsd and vsds can kill rebel ships before they die due to bombers, if played with well of course

Imperial aces beat rebel bombers as well, Gunn each of the aces or at leaste fel mithel and a few advanced and you should come out on top

[Slugrage 5,011]

Fighter screens are your friend.

[ficklegreendice 34,362]

1st rule of haven: dont talk about haven

2nd rule of haven:Haven doesn't protect herself

Either keeping squadrons still, chiraneau, or forcing/killing the fattie away are how you deal with it.

Don't think of her as a ship so much as a moving fortress. Don't fight on her terms.

Haven is the fort
Her title is the moat
The squadrons are the allegators

Edited June 2, 2015 by ficklegreendice

[DWRR 898]

Don't engage rebel fighters hiding behind Haven. If they're within distance 1 of Haven they aren't being a nusance killing your fighters or ship.

Ties should always out range rebel squadrons so even if they do make a move away from Haven you should still get the drop on them

[Overdawg 349]

At this point in my playing of this game, I feel like i dont have a chance against 2 whales and B's/X's. activate 3 squadrons activate a fourth, one attacks again. add a black dice at long range, then add another. cant use brace, cant use redirect. oh you took a crit? i get to choose. oh and the fighter screen i brought to deal with bombers? taken out first salvo. now I know my fleet wasnt the best, but how are you supposed to deal with all the rebel cheater cards and bombers? it wasnt a contest... and i have seen this rebel build table everything it faces. smh.

Sounds exactly like my build and I have tabled most of my opponents but a good squadron build can wreak havok on it.

[GilDK 47]

Maybe a dumb question, but how do you get a black die at long range.

[Overdawg 349]

Maybe a dumb question, but how do you get a black die at long range.

With the Paragon ship card for the Assault Frigate MKII - "When attacking a ship you have already attacked this round, add 1 black die to your attack pool."  This allows you to not only throw one black die at any range but if you use the concentrate fire command you can add another black die since that command lets you add one die of any color already in your die pool. 

[ficklegreendice 34,362]

key distinction is "dice pool" and not "battery armament"

[Chioxin 37]

key distinction is "dice pool" and not "battery armament"

 

I was looking for that key ward "Battery Armament" this weekend. Mostly because I was using the Imperial Bomber that lets all fighters within range 1 use dice from their battery armaments to attack a ship at close/medium range. On a fighter card, is that the dice for ships? Or dice for anti fighter? I assumed ships, so I just had each squad fire that.

[ficklegreendice 34,362]

it's a little different between squadrons and ships

 

Ship battery armaments are the dice in each arc, fired at different ranges according to the ship side of the range ruler. The anti-squadron armament is the amount of dice they shoot at squadrons regardless of arc, but still at blue dice range or closer.

 

 

Squadron armaments are either anti-squadron or anti-ship but are only shot at Distance 1, regardless of color. Rhymer changes this by letting squadrons attack ships at medium range (regardless of dice color, because squadrons aren't limited by range in the same way ships are). So yes, you use the anti-ship armament (black die) at medium range.

 

 

For Paragon, if the title added a black die to your battery armament, it'd temporarily add a black die to your arc (so a black die when attacking at close range)

 

Instead, it adds to your dice pool which is formed after checking range.

 

Say you shot from your front arc at long range (red red) and are then shooting at the same target from your side.

 

You declare the relevant target. Your battery armament of red red red blue lets you form an attack pool of red red red because you can't use blue dice from your armament at long range

(from the reference: "gather attack dice to form the attack pool and roll those dice. gather dice that are appropriate for the range of the attack as indicated by the icons on the range ruler" page 2).

 

After that, Paragon adds black to your die pool.

 

 

So now you have red red red black. The CF command will add a die of any color already in your die pool, so you can add a black to your pool.

 

So you end up with red red red black black and a big middle finger to give to all the VSD - 1s

Edited June 2, 2015 by ficklegreendice

[IvoryTower 4]

 

key distinction is "dice pool" and not "battery armament"

 

I was looking for that key ward "Battery Armament" this weekend. Mostly because I was using the Imperial Bomber that lets all fighters within range 1 use dice from their battery armaments to attack a ship at close/medium range. On a fighter card, is that the dice for ships? Or dice for anti fighter? I assumed ships, so I just had each squad fire that.

 

You were correct in the "ship" dice. I missed it for a while too when I went looking for it (thanks Major Ryhmer). It's on Page 2 of the Rules Ref Book under "Armament"

[GilDK 47]

Ok, nice enough, I will then put Paragon back on my ship. Otherwise it didnt make any sense.

[Starbreaker1 75]

If you are having trouble with Haven I would also say invest in Intel officers, they are IMO, the best officer available.  Another thing you could try is ignore the fighter game, I am considering using 4 Gladiators simply because if I can get 4 arcs, which with 4 relatively fast ships should be easy, I can Erase an assault frigate with those 4 shots, and that is assuming below average rolls, and of course ACM.  It has worked against the pair frigate build 3 times so far, which is not alot but it seems very strong against them.  It is important to remember in any "tournament level" game once all of a players ships are removed the game ends regardless of how many fighters they still have.  Even if you don't have 4 Glads try 3 upgraded or 2 and a VSD just remember to keep them together, that is the key, often you will lose one to the fighters but if their carrier then dies, they will most likely go back to activating in the squadron phase and be much less of a threat.

[SmogLord 94]

Maybe try countering with a bomber build of your own, supported by either a Soontir Fel/tie advanced combo or Howlrunner w/lots of ties or interceptors. Imperial bombers don't hit as hard, but are easier to use, especially with Major Rhymer and Chiraneau. The big disadvantage of Gallant Haven is that he has to keep his fighters close to it for it to help him. This leaves the rest of his fleet wide open to your bombers. If he does take the bait and goes after your bombers then you can open up on his fighters with your support fighters. If he doesn't take the bait, then your bombers can decimate the rest of his fleet while your remaining fighters keep his bombers near the Gallant Haven tied up. Even if your support fighters are ultimately destroyed they will have done their job. I find that playing defensively and using the imperial named fighters' abilities strategically helps the Empire come out on top most of the time in the fighter game. Also, Mauler Mithel doesn't care about Gallant Haven's ability. Use him and Chiraneau together as another option to land pretty much free damage against as many of his fighters as possible.