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ddbrown30

Rez timing during a run (Blacklist, specifically)

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Okay, from what I can tell from the timing structure, I don't think it's possible to rez Blacklist in such a way that you can surprise a runner with a piece of ice and also prevent recursion to help against that ice.

 

2.1 only allows paid abilities, not rez, so it can't be there.

2.3 allows rez, but it happens after the ice is rezzed. Since it's the runner's turn they will have priority for the activation window.

 

Is that correct?

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2.3 allows rezzing of ice and non-ice cards. You can do this in whatever order you want, the order the icons appear in the timing chart is irrelevant.

Furthermore, even if you had to rez ice before assets, one player has the opportunity to activate as many abilities as they want before passing back to their opponent, meaning I could rez a piece of ice and then rez blacklist before you can respond.

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Even though it's the runner's turn, when they go to encounter an ice de facto priority usually goes to the corp since the runner doesn't have any information or cause to take actions than they did during the previous window on Approach. They can't "interrupt" your R/PA actions until you're done and you pass the window back to them.

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Okay, so the rezzing of the ice is included in the activation window? In other words, rezzing the ice isn't the event that triggers the activation window?

 

What I mean is, take, for instance, playing a card. Playing the card isn't part of the activation window, it starts it.

Edited by ddbrown30

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As in all things, the answer is "consult the timing chart." There's no such thing as an "activation window." There are Actions, there are Paid Abilities, and there are Rez Card opportunities. These aren't "triggered" by anything, they are defined by the framework of the game and they happen in the prescribed order whether or not either player does anything noteworthy before, during, or after.


2. The Runner APPROACHES the outermost piece of ice not already approached on the attacked server.
2.1 {Paid Abilities}
2.2 The Runner decides whether to continue the run.
...Either the Runner JACKS OUT: go to [6] (cannot jack out if this is the first ice approached this run)
...Or the Runner continues the run: go to [2.3]
2.3 Approached ice can be rezzed, {Paid Abilities}{Rez Cards}
2.4 Players check to see if the approached ice is rezzed.
• If the approached ice is REZZED, go to [3]. If the approached ice is UNREZZED, the Runner
PASSES it: go to [2] if there is another piece of ice protecting the server, go to [4] if there is not
another piece of ice protecting the server.
3. The Runner ENCOUNTERS a piece of ice. (‘When encountered’ conditionals meet their trigger conditions)
3.1 Icebreakers can interact with the encountered ice, {Paid Abilities}
3.2 Resolve all subroutines not broken on the encountered ice.
...Either the run ends: go to [6]
...Or the run continues: if there is another piece of ice protecting the server, go to [2]; if there is not
another piece of ice protecting the server, go to [4].

 

 
 
What you said in the OP, "it happens after the ice is rezzed" is actually wrong, it needs to be pointed out. 
 
In step 2.3, the runner has the first opportunity to use Paid Abilities. The ice is not yet rezzed. So he doesn't know what to tutor for. Usually this immediately passes to the Corp, since almost never has the game state changed since the last opportunity to do so in 2.1.
 
Then it's the corp's turn to do stuff. This includes Rezzing Cards (including Ice, and Assets like Blacklist) and using Paid Abilities.
 
The stuff that you do in 2.3, happens in the order YOU choose, as many things as you choose, until you've done everything you want to. Rezzing Cards and using Paid Abilities are interchangeable, the only thing the text clause about rezzing ice does is enable an ice to be one of the card types eligible to be rezzed. Then priority reverts back to the Runner, who is sad now because SMC and any other card he'd want to recur is locked down in the heap.
 

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Then priority reverts back to the Runner, who is sad now because SMC and any other card he'd want to recur is locked down in the heap.

 

 

This was the part I was missing. I had forgotten that the activation window passes back and forth between the players until both parties pass. Thanks.

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I tweeted Lukas today, because there has been a lot of discussion around the power or Marcus Batty, in  2.3 if you rezz Batty and win the PSI for some trash sub ( like Next Gold) does the runner has time to Clone Chip his breaker before hitting the ICE?

Some people made the argument that the runner has already "passed the priority" of the timing window ( since he doesn't need to Clone Chip his Sentry breaker, because the Icebreaker is in play), so if you Batty then and trash his Sentry breaker, he will hit "naked" the ICE Gold and eat more damage.  So I guess the point it boils down to is - can he Clone Chip back after he passed the priority for that timing window? Does passing priority renders him unable to use that window again?

What are your thoughts?

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You can totally clone chip it back. You passed priority, but if the Corp takes ANY action in that window, the runner gets to act again.

 

Timing Priority

Whenever there is an opportunity to trigger paid abilities, rez cards and/or score agendas (usually at the beginning of a turn and after each action), the player who is currently taking his turn gets the first opportunity to act. He can trigger as many abilities, rez as many cards, and/or score as many agendas as he wishes in the order of his choosing. When he is finished, the other player gets the opportunity to act. When that player is finished, the first player gets the opportunity to act once again.

Emphasis mine.

Basically you can always respond if your opponent acts. The only time you can't do anything is when both of you have had at least one chance to do something, the NEXT TIME someone passes, the window closes. So if you do nothing on approach, then the corp does nothing, then the window closes. If you do something, and the Corp does nothing, the window closes. If you do nothing, the Corp does ANYTHING, you get to do something too, but the next pass closes the window.

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If a player is using Batty and Next, they should be rezzing Batty and Blacklist together to prevent the clone chip and force their opponent to facecheck the ice.

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