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ISD with missiles?

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Why does the ISD have black dice? Neither the ISD I nor II are armed with any kind of missiles. They have turbolaser and ion cannon batteries. They are heavy, long range craft, capable of bombarding planets. They are not close range brawlers. I know the expansion hasn't been released yet, but can anyone explain?

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1. You may see other upgrade cards that involve black dice that aren't missiles.

2. The ISD having every type of dice may indicate that it has the capacity to engage ships effectively at every range.

Edited by Zombicide

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It should be pointed out that none of the upgrade cards seem to be the missile/munition type of upgrade, so perhaps it has black dice to represent the relative danger of just being close to one of those things, and not necessarily "missiles."

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I would imagine they did this for game balance. If it had all red and blue dice ir could just hang back and snipe. Also, we've only seen the ISD I spoiled. The ISD II might have more range, similar to the VSD I having black to the VSD II having blue. As for the black dice, I think they probably represent heavy turbolasers that have a limited range versus missiles.

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ISD1 IMO has missiles.

I doubt you'd find a canon source that lists exactly what weapons a ISD has. But according to the Wookipedia page the ISD I doesn't have any missile launchers on it.

Edited by VanorDM

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Black dice represent powerful close ranged weapons so turbo lasers that have a super charger but dissipate over a distance faster 

 

There is the fact that ISD's could have missiles. Nothing states that it can't have missiles. We just know of its Ions, Turbolasers, and tractor beams

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I think in the old X-wing vs Tie-fighter game and its predecessors the ISD-I had missiles/torpedoes, so there is some reason to give them those in armada as well. Not sure about the ISD-II. Also it makes no sense not to give your main battleship some missiles/torpedoes considering their effectiveness in Star Wars.

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ISD1 IMO has missiles. That get replaced by additional ion cannons and such in ISD2.

 

According to which lore? By "IMO" do you mean 'In my opinion'?

 

According to other sources, the ISD 1 is the version with many more ion cannons. Not just the two large turrets, but a whole host (60) of them elsewhere. By comparison, the ISD2 has only 20 heavy Ion cannons. Are you referring to the heaviness of the ion cannons?

Edited by Mikael Hasselstein

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I haven't kept up on this stuff in years, so someone please correct me. Either the Mark I or the Mark II one of the major differences was the main turrets, they changed from either four gun turrets to six gun turrets (or was it from six to eight guns?). Think of it like the difference between some old battleship classes where some had turrets with two guns and some with three and some others even had four guns in a single turret. The old qoute about the ISD was that one alone could take on entire fleets of smaller vessels. One ISD was considered enough to maintain control in a single system. It's part Aircraft Carrier, part Battleship, part troop carrier, part various other real world ship classes all rolled up into one. It was the jack of all trades and master of most for the Imperial Navy.

 

Also I think something about the configeration of the Ion turrets changed as well. Most where relocated to the dorsal line so they would have a better field of fire than being in the main batteries at the rear of the ship. Or maybe it was the Mark One that had them like that and the Mark Two had them confined to just the main turret batteries since it's role changed slighty. Either way both ships had missile tubes, most ships do. A missile tube doesn't need a huge turret, all it needs is a small port on the ship to be launched from. Now the ISD didn't have the missile firepower of the VSD. The VSD was like the ballistic missile sub/guided missile cruiser/MLRS of star wars ships. The ISD's missile load out would most likely be compared to modern surface ships that carry tomahawks and other various missiles, but they aren't the main firepower of the ship.

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The very first star destroyer blueprint by Geoffery Mandel (1978) shows missile tubes in the nose. So they've always been there. It also shows the capability to lay mines. It makes sense that a ship that big would have a wide variety of weapon systems.

 

Sure, but that schematic is at complete odds with material since established. It also looks nothing like what an ISD looks like. I would suggest that it's just about as canon as the Holiday Special - that other Star Wars design from 1978.

 

Now, obviously, back in '78, they didn't have a clue about the degree to which us fans were going to try to be as precise about our SW. Stuff was kind of thrown together and coherence was an afterthought. 

 

 

I haven't kept up on this stuff in years, so someone please correct me. Either the Mark I or the Mark II one of the major differences was the main turrets, they changed from either four gun turrets to six gun turrets (or was it from six to eight guns?).

 

Essentially, it was a way to paper over the differences between the star destroyer model from ANH (the Devastator) and the model from ESB (the Avenger). But a lot has been made of these since then.

 

Visually, the Devastator (Imperial I) has six double turbolaser turrets and two heavy ion cannon turrets, whereas the Avenger (Imperial II) has eight "octuple barbette turbolaser batteries", which have eight turbolaser barrels each. There's also the matter that the Devastator has some visible turrets forward of the superstructure in the dorsal side.

 

Beyond that, it's really hard to nail down what these things have. There are somewhat conflicting descriptions across the EU sources. I was part of a project that attempted to deck-plan the ISD-II, which you can read about here.

 

Edited by Mikael Hasselstein

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I remember reading the difference between the ISD-I & ISD-II was better structural integrity or more armor plating resulting in a more durable hull, significantly better shielding, and more long range firepower & ion weaponry for the ISD-II, but less anti fighter weaponry. I have absolutely no idea where I read that though, probably in one of the encyclopedia's of the old Star Wars games like X-wing vs Tie-fighter or Star Wars: Rebellion/Supremacy.

 

Less anti-fighter weaponry makes little sense though since Rebel starfighters proved to be so effective. Surely that would warrant more anti-fighter weaponry on the upgrade.

Edited by Lord Tareq

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The figures that I've seen quoted most often:
Imperial-I-class Star Destroyer: 6x Dual Heavy Turbolaser turrets, 2x Dual Heavy Ion Cannon turrets (3+1 on either side of the superstructure), and an additional 60 turbolasers and 60 ion cannons.

Imperial-II-class Star Destoyer: 8x Octuple Turbolaser Barbettes (replacing the main turret battery), 50 heavy turbolasers, 50 turbolasers, 20 heavy ion cannons.

Both classes featured 10 tractor beam projectors, and the Imperial-II sported heavier armor and shielding.

Honestly, I could see the 3R/2Bu/3Bk armament for the Imperial-II, but it doesn't make much sense for the Imperial-I (which had more ion cannons than Victory destroyers had guns.)



Also, Imperial-class Star Destroyers have plenty of anti-fighter weaponry.  It's called a full wing of TIEs. ;)  WWII showed that a CAP is a far more effective anti-fighter defense than any number of AA guns.

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The very first star destroyer blueprint by Geoffery Mandel (1978) shows missile tubes in the nose. So they've always been there. It also shows the capability to lay mines. It makes sense that a ship that big would have a wide variety of weapon systems.

 

Sure, but that schematic is at complete odds with material since established. It also looks nothing like what an ISD looks like. I would suggest that it's just about as canon as the Holiday Special - that other Star Wars design from 1978.

 

Now, obviously, back in '78, they didn't have a clue about the degree to which us fans were going to try to be as precise about our SW. Stuff was kind of thrown together and coherence was an afterthought. 

 

 

I haven't kept up on this stuff in years, so someone please correct me. Either the Mark I or the Mark II one of the major differences was the main turrets, they changed from either four gun turrets to six gun turrets (or was it from six to eight guns?).

 

Essentially, it was a way to paper over the differences between the star destroyer model from ANH (the Devastator) and the model from ESB (the Avenger). But a lot has been made of these since then.

 

Visually, the Devastator (Imperial I) has six double turbolaser turrets and two heavy ion cannon turrets, whereas the Avenger (Imperial II) has eight "octuple barbette turbolaser batteries", which have eight turbolaser barrels each. There's also the matter that the Devastator has some visible turrets forward of the superstructure in the dorsal side.

 

Beyond that, it's really hard to nail down what these things have. There are somewhat conflicting descriptions across the EU sources. I was part of a project that attempted to deck-plan the ISD-II, which you can read about here.

 

 

It's real to me! :angry:

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I have yet to see anything that says black dice = missiles.  Some black dice correspond to missile attacks.  This does not mean all black dice equal Missiles. 

 

Some old movies are black and white.  Penguins are black and white.  Therefore, some penguins are black and white movies.

 

See?  Color does not equal function.

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I personally love how people are so passionate about this, trying to find different sources for what kind of armaments the ships are armed with. It really shows how much people like this game.

Like different people have said, nothing really says that black dice equals missiles (it just happens that so far, the missile upgrades have provided black dice). However, if you ask me, there really is only one answer to all the questions about "Why does this ship have this dice?", and that is Game balance.

Edited by Viper Jr.

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I see all of the dice colours as probability of hitting target and the amount of **** it'll do to the enemy. Conversely, I can argue that the red and blue dice as missiles. Also, for all you know, the black dice could also be those short range QF guns that deal damage through the sheer volume of their rate of fire.

Edited by cruiser2710

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I personally love how people are so passionate about this, trying to find different sources for what kind of armaments the ships are armed with. It really shows how much people like this game.

Like different people have said, nothing really says that black dice equals missiles (it just happens that so far, the missile upgrades have provided black dice). However, if you ask me, there really is only one answer to all the questions about "Why does this ship have this dice?", and that is Game balance.

 

That esay explained, because people play this and not another space Taveltop because the Star Wars flair. And you cant sacrifice too much for game balance until the game looses this flair.

 

People would dislike a WWII tabletop in which the Yamamoto has missle launchers for game balance issues either.

Edited by DScipio

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