Help me counter RAC + Fel

[rabid1903 287]

Hello everyone!  It will be a while before I get to play again in person, but I am theorycrafting my strategies so I can go into every game with a plan.  Below is my list, which I think I will be able to fly well against most opponents.  However, I am concerned about RAC + Fel because I feel it is a bit of a hard counter against my list.  My meta is unknown to me right now, but before I left I did see quite a few turrets so I would not be surprised if that continued.

 

Shadow Squadron Pilot

- Sensor Jammer

- Tactician

- Stygium Partical Accelerator

 

Shadow Squadron Pilot

- Sensor Jammer

- Tactician

- Stygium Partical Accelerator

 

Sigma Squadron Pilot

- Fire Control System

- Intelligence Agent

- Stygium Partical Accelerator

 

 

So with this list, my general plan is to flank with the shadows and send the sigma primarily after high agi/PS pilots.  He'll have the most consistent damage output, and I plan to frequently decloak & recloak to keep my evade tokens up until I get into position.  This is going to be a hit and run list where the shadows tag team the same target to get the most out of their sensor jammers.

 

The main problem I see though is RAC + Fel, as the downgrade to an eye isn't a huge detriment to them and Fel is going to be a nightmare to catch.  With this squad, how would you fly against that list?

[TIE Pilot 3,501]

Your signature is actually quoting Sir Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!, 1989.

[rabid1903 287]

Your signature is actually quoting Sir Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!, 1989.

I thought it was actually from Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy?  But Funkleton's strategic use of it is what made me sig it, so I gave him the credit.  It's about time for a new sig though, so I'm on the lookout haha.

Edited May 28, 2015 by rabid1903

[urifici 96]

dual decimator list, one (patrovader to kill that soontir's bastard) and oicunn (predator) to crash against chirpy and shot him

[Dagonet 7,246]

 

 

The main problem I see though is RAC + Fel, as the downgrade to an eye isn't a huge detriment to them and Fel is going to be a nightmare to catch.  With this squad, how would you fly against that list?

 

Stand-off tactics with Chiraneau. Stay at range 3 until he's gone.

[rabid1903 287]

 

 

 

The main problem I see though is RAC + Fel, as the downgrade to an eye isn't a huge detriment to them and Fel is going to be a nightmare to catch.  With this squad, how would you fly against that list?

 

Stand-off tactics with Chiraneau. Stay at range 3 until he's gone.

 

 

I forgot his ability doesn't work at range 3.  That would be a good opportunity for me to recloak a ship if I end up too close.  The downside is Tactician won't work at that range.  Would it be smart to break the shadows off to chase down Fel/cover the Sigma?  I'm confident the Sigma can keep at range 3 because of Intel Agent.

 

 

 

 

 

dual decimator list, one (patrovader to kill that soontir's bastard) and oicunn (predator) to crash against chirpy and shot him

 

That might be exceptionally difficult to pull off with this list haha

Edited May 28, 2015 by rabid1903

[PhantomFO 9,099]

If you do get into range 1-2 against Chiraneau, don't use Jammer unless he already has an eyeball. Otherwise, it's just a free crit.

[darthlurker 645]

I've been flying a similar list lately and fortunately haven't had much trouble catching Soontir, the trick is in getting into range 1-2 with the intel agent and then blocking him (a cloaked phantom with BR has 12 final possible positions for a given maneuver). Your other ships can then get in close and quickly finish him off as long as you don't roll terribly or he doesn't get a bunch of natural evades. I've brought down Soontir like this almost every time I faced him (in about 6 games) and I think he only survived the bump once.

RAC however is another story, because if he can he'll always boost into range 1-2 for his ability. The best strategy I've implemented (though it's not easy) is to have a phantom on blocking duty with the intel agent and then try to keep at range 3 with the other ships while shooting at him. If you manage it then sensor jammer will prevent a ton of damage while you fire 4-8 focused dice each turn.

As both of those pilots require intel agents to deal with, I'd recommend swapping at least one tactician out.

[rabid1903 287]

So I'm not the greatest at Mathwing, but the bit of calculations I've done show the Sigma at being able to take out RAC assuming the following:

- RAC TL each round

- Sigma evade each round

- Maintain range 3

 

The RAC just can't sustain 4 dice being thrown vs his 1 agility, while the 3 dice vs 3 agility + evade can frequently mitigate all damage.

 

Can anyone verify this?

 

 

 

 

 

I've been flying a similar list lately and fortunately haven't had much trouble catching Soontir, the trick is in getting into range 1-2 with the intel agent and then blocking him (a cloaked phantom with BR has 12 final possible positions for a given maneuver). Your other ships can then get in close and quickly finish him off as long as you don't roll terribly or he doesn't get a bunch of natural evades. I've brought down Soontir like this almost every time I faced him (in about 6 games) and I think he only survived the bump once.

RAC however is another story, because if he can he'll always boost into range 1-2 for his ability. The best strategy I've implemented (though it's not easy) is to have a phantom on blocking duty with the intel agent and then try to keep at range 3 with the other ships while shooting at him. If you manage it then sensor jammer will prevent a ton of damage while you fire 4-8 focused dice each turn.

As both of those pilots require intel agents to deal with, I'd recommend swapping at least one tactician out.

 

I definitely like the combination of stress + jammer. How would you suggest changing things up to still get that effect? Intel Agent on the two Shadows and Mara Jade/Rebel Captive on the Sigma?

Edited May 28, 2015 by rabid1903

[Dagonet 7,246]

 

I forgot his ability doesn't work at range 3.  That would be a good opportunity for me to recloak a ship if I end up too close.  The downside is Tactician won't work at that range.  Would it be smart to break the shadows off to chase down Fel/cover the Sigma?  I'm confident the Sigma can keep at range 3 because of Intel Agent.

 

 

If the Sigma can, so can the Shadows.

I'd focus the Rear Admiral down with all ships, once he's gone Fel will have a hard time running.

[rabid1903 287]

 

 

I forgot his ability doesn't work at range 3.  That would be a good opportunity for me to recloak a ship if I end up too close.  The downside is Tactician won't work at that range.  Would it be smart to break the shadows off to chase down Fel/cover the Sigma?  I'm confident the Sigma can keep at range 3 because of Intel Agent.

 

 

If the Sigma can, so can the Shadows.

I'd focus the Rear Admiral down with all ships, once he's gone Fel will have a hard time running.

 

 

True, Intel Agent doesn't exactly prevent me from using the information I find on my other ships.  Throwing 12 modified dice at the Admiral is sure to hurt.  Two volleys and I bet he'd go down.  He'll need to go down fast if I'm going to ignore Fel.

[rabid1903 287]

So I think I've got the target priority down, now for the big one that I tend to screw up: deployment.

 

I'm for sure going to deploy before either of my opponent's ships.  Would it be better to spread the field or deploy in close proximity.  My hunch is towards the latter, but I'd like to ask the audience.

[Dagonet 7,246]

 

 

 

I forgot his ability doesn't work at range 3.  That would be a good opportunity for me to recloak a ship if I end up too close.  The downside is Tactician won't work at that range.  Would it be smart to break the shadows off to chase down Fel/cover the Sigma?  I'm confident the Sigma can keep at range 3 because of Intel Agent.

 

 

If the Sigma can, so can the Shadows.

I'd focus the Rear Admiral down with all ships, once he's gone Fel will have a hard time running.

 

 

True, Intel Agent doesn't exactly prevent me from using the information I find on my other ships.  Throwing 12 modified dice at the Admiral is sure to hurt.  Two volleys and I bet he'd go down.  He'll need to go down fast if I'm going to ignore Fel.

 

 

Fel isn't going to one-shot a Phantom if you keep an evade token loaded.

[Dagonet 7,246]

So I think I've got the target priority down, now for the big one that I tend to screw up: deployment.

 

I'm for sure going to deploy before either of my opponent's ships.  Would it be better to spread the field or deploy in close proximity.  My hunch is towards the latter, but I'd like to ask the audience.

 

Well, you tend to screw up deployment, how do you usually deploy? .

 

I think you need to think about asteroid deployment first, as well as initial maneuvers.

[rabid1903 287]

 

So I think I've got the target priority down, now for the big one that I tend to screw up: deployment.

 

I'm for sure going to deploy before either of my opponent's ships.  Would it be better to spread the field or deploy in close proximity.  My hunch is towards the latter, but I'd like to ask the audience.

 

Well, you tend to screw up deployment, how do you usually deploy? .

 

I think you need to think about asteroid deployment first, as well as initial maneuvers.

 

 

So here's my normal thought process behind deployment:

1. All ships higher PS than me?  Staggered/tight formation in the corner.

2. Some ships lower PS than me with no aces?  Opposite corner than them, unless they deploy in the center in which case I'll put my best flanker on one side and everything else on the other.

3. Some ships lower PS than me with aces?  Same as #1

 

Asteroids tend to seriously bite me in the ass, so I stick the suckers in corners whenever I can or create lanes whenever I can't.

 

Initial maneuvers are a crapshoot for me, I normally just go with my gut.

[darthlurker 645]

I definitely like the combination of stress + jammer. How would you suggest changing things up to still get that effect? Intel Agent on the two Shadows and Mara Jade/Rebel Captive on the Sigma?

Honestly I'm not sure. I've play-tested a 3-sigma build (one with Mara Jade, two with intel agents and all of them with sensor jammer and stygium) and while Mara Jade's ability is amazing if you stick that phantom in the middle of a swarm, RAC will just roll 4 dice against you and has a chance of one-shoting a phantom even with the jammer and evade token. If you want to go the Mara Jade route then that has to be the phantom that blocks RAC, but then you need the others to be at range 2 for the intel agent. It might work but you'll probably have to take a crit on your shields every turn (assuming he has gunner) and try to drop him quickly.

 

The list I currently play has Carnor Jax instead of the sigma with Mara Jade, and it suffers from the same problem. I have 11 wins out of 12 with the list if you don't count RAC+Fel, for which I'm currently 2 for 6. The first time that I won against it I was basically using one phantom to block the baron (and if it could face towards the decimator and shoot then great, but that was secondary) and the other two ships were blocking the rear admiral and firing at him from range 2, taking a crit each turn (he had a gunner+predator) and when one ship was down to 2 hull (FYI: fly Carnor with a shield) I'd use that one to block. Finally Fel escaped after maybe 5 turns of on-and-off blocking (when he wasn't blocked he had to turtle up or use his actions to get out of arc because a phantom was behind him), but was out of position and I was finally able to point all guns at the decimator and finished it off with Carnor at 1 hull, a sigma at 2 and the other one full. After that, catching Soontir was pretty straightforward.

 

In the other game I won, my opponent brought Soontir a bit too close before the first combat turn and I was able to guess him and one-shot him in exchange for a shield or two. After that I implemented the IA-blocking strategy from my previous post.

 

So I think I've got the target priority down, now for the big one that I tend to screw up: deployment.

 

I'm for sure going to deploy before either of my opponent's ships.  Would it be better to spread the field or deploy in close proximity.  My hunch is towards the latter, but I'd like to ask the audience.

 

My answer to this is: not too far and not too close. With my list I tend to place two asteroids at about range 3 from my left and right table edges and range 2-3 from my edge, and I normally place my two sigmas in such a way that a 2-3 bank towards the table center will put them cloaked and behind an asteroid, but with all 3 decloak options available. Even if Soontir/RAC/IG88 comes forward full throttle with a boost, the 5-6 defense dice, evade token and sensor jammer have always prevented me from taking damage on the first turn. From then on you have enough decloak+maneuver options to put them both next to each other to fire on the same target, though depending on the situation you can take turns cloaking and decloaking with the phantoms to mess with your opponent's target priority and have a more effective blocker for each turn.

[rabid1903 287]

Darthlurker,

 

I think I've decided on the Rebel Captive.  It screws with target priority, so if my opponent goes for the "vulnerable" Sigma who doesn't have a sensor jammer they get rewarded with stress.  I'll stick with 3x Phantoms instead of switching the Carnor Jax.  His pilot ability meshes perfectly with Sensor Jammer, but I just have too much fun flying Phantoms to switch away from them

 

As for your deployment tactic, the asteroid placement makes total sense.  Do you stick your Sigmas on the same side or one in each corner?

[Dagonet 7,246]

The PS difference between the Shadows and the Sigma, do you feel that it is a significant advantage to you?

 

Because you could always go with 3 Sigma's, all with SJ, two with TAC, one with IA.

[rabid1903 287]

The PS difference between the Shadows and the Sigma, do you feel that it is a significant advantage to you?

 

Because you could always go with 3 Sigma's, all with SJ, two with TAC, one with IA.

 

I wish I could give you a better reason other than personal preference.  Though I'd still have 2 points left over with what you were suggesting.  Switching the Sigma that has IA to a Shadow would be a good compromise.

 

Unfortunately I've only got one copy of Sensor Jammer, and I'm not a huge fan of the shuttle.  Has there been any word of including it in any other packs?

Edited May 28, 2015 by rabid1903

[Forensicus 883]

Your signature is actually quoting Sir Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!, 1989.

I thought it was actually from Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy?  But Funkleton's strategic use of it is what made me sig it, so I gave him the credit.  It's about time for a new sig though, so I'm on the lookout haha.

It is indeed from H2G2

[TasteTheRainbow 8,717]

Ptl r2d2 Corran + stresshog + almost anything can do it.

Unless it's gunner/Vader RAC it's actually an easy game. Even then you have better than 50/50 chances.

Edited May 28, 2015 by TasteTheRainbow

[darthlurker 645]

Darthlurker,

 

I think I've decided on the Rebel Captive.  It screws with target priority, so if my opponent goes for the "vulnerable" Sigma who doesn't have a sensor jammer they get rewarded with stress.  I'll stick with 3x Phantoms instead of switching the Carnor Jax.  His pilot ability meshes perfectly with Sensor Jammer, but I just have too much fun flying Phantoms to switch away from them

 

As for your deployment tactic, the asteroid placement makes total sense.  Do you stick your Sigmas on the same side or one in each corner?

Fair enough, i found the 6 sigma list (or any list with 3 phantoms) to be too overwhelming for my brain to take to tournaments XD. I do like your RC idea with the FCS phantom. It will definitely make for tough decisions, and a stressed ship is easily blocked.

As for deployment, I usually put the sigmas in opposite corners, but as the two asteroids are about R3 from the left and right edges, the sigmas can be next to each other for support on turn 2 if needed.

Unfortunately I've only got one copy of Sensor Jammer, and I'm not a huge fan of the shuttle.  Has there been any word of including it in any other packs?

None so far, but second ships with predator and engine upgrade will be in wave 7 so that's something...

[rabid1903 287]

****, that's a shame.  I can stomach buying a second shuttle, but not a third.  Looks like I'm back to my last list without three jammers.

[darthlurker 645]

I normally just proxy the card and for tournaments I ask someone from my LGS to lend me one, because lets face it, most people have a shuttle and almost never use that card.

Or you could just buy the card for a fiver from some online shop or ebay.

[rabid1903 287]

That's right, doesn't team covenent have a card shop?  This card's gotta be pretty cheap.