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Comic Collector Shop

Does a shield grant cover?

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I'd say no, as its bonuses are already in its profile.

I read cover, and it seems kind of in the middle. The shield is intercepting the shot against my character, and it falls under "Thin metal" (4ap). But I can see it not counting, since it's actually under melee WEAPONS.

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For inspiration, I'd check out the rules from DH1. There are definitely descriptions of shields giving cover or Armor to the side of the body (arm and leg?) which as the shield and then I THINK you can crouch behind it for yet more cover.

 

But hey, maybe that was a totally different system. Regardless, I think the rules are in Book of Judgment (the Arbites/law focused one)

Edited by Flail-Bot

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I'd not call it cover as is, since cover itself brings along certain trappings such as being useful for Tactical Advance and against pinning, or being able to be destroyed. Shields, as written, just add armor to certain locations on the body, and that's all they really need to do so far as the model goes.

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I'd not call it cover as is, since cover itself brings along certain trappings such as being useful for Tactical Advance and against pinning, or being able to be destroyed. Shields, as written, just add armor to certain locations on the body, and that's all they really need to do so far as the model goes.

They actually don't add armor to the body, unless you were to count them as cover. Then they might ad 4, which could be destroyed via the normal cover rules.

But going forward that shields aren't cover, how would you do a riot shield then?

Edited by Comic Collector Shop

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All the shields I've seen printed have the Defensive property, and grant some degree of armor to the arm they're held in plus the body. (DH2E has the Shield in core and the Praesidium Protectiva in Enemies Within.) Perhaps you overlooked them? Or were you distinctly looking for something more that just that, like what the Magus Field Wall Generator does? (Force fields that provide a Protection Rating as cover.)

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All the shields I've seen printed have the Defensive property, and grant some degree of armor to the arm they're held in plus the body. (DH2E has the Shield in core and the Praesidium Protectiva in Enemies Within.) Perhaps you overlooked them? Or were you distinctly looking for something more that just that, like what the Magus Field Wall Generator does? (Force fields that provide a Protection Rating as cover.)

 

Are you sure? I just went over the DH2 rules for shield before I posted, looking at Cover as well as Defensive and the specific entry for Shield and it doesn't mention adding AP at all.

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It's listed in the melee weapons table.  Check the notes, shields have a ** (not sure how to list the cross character).

 

* - two handed

** - adds +2 armor to body and arm

*** - power fists add 2xSB

 

Page 159, DH2 Core.

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As Jupiter said. In core book it specifically says count it as addition AP to the arm it is holding and to the body. There is no shield cover yet. In first edition, certain shields like the tower shield counted as cover and could be ducked behind and the like. The Naval shield also could be used as a told for certain things as well. Talk to your GM or your players and think about a cross over you'd like to create. It is currently not in the game but not without precedent.

 

Just a heads up, if you do, do a cover type, I suggesting giving it HP so it can degrade and break. If you don't you'll find it being used to stop power weapons, lazcannons and heavy bolters without ever taking a scratch.

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It's listed in the melee weapons table.  Check the notes, shields have a ** (not sure how to list the cross character).

 

* - two handed

** - adds +2 armor to body and arm

*** - power fists add 2xSB

 

Page 159, DH2 Core.

I don't have my book on me to check, but I will shortly!

 

All the shields I've seen printed have the Defensive property, and grant some degree of armor to the arm they're held in plus the body. (DH2E has the Shield in core and the Praesidium Protectiva in Enemies Within.) Perhaps you overlooked them? Or were you distinctly looking for something more that just that, like what the Magus Field Wall Generator does? (Force fields that provide a Protection Rating as cover.)

It's possible I did. It doesn't say anyhting on the list view, but after the fiasco with starting equipment, I wouldn't be surprised if it was in the shield entry instead of under defensive.

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As Jupiter said. In core book it specifically says count it as addition AP to the arm it is holding and to the body. There is no shield cover yet. In first edition, certain shields like the tower shield counted as cover and could be ducked behind and the like. The Naval shield also could be used as a told for certain things as well. Talk to your GM or your players and think about a cross over you'd like to create. It is currently not in the game but not without precedent.

 

Just a heads up, if you do, do a cover type, I suggesting giving it HP so it can degrade and break. If you don't you'll find it being used to stop power weapons, lazcannons and heavy bolters without ever taking a scratch.

Cover rules do account for that. Everytime the AP of the cover is exceeded, the AP goes down by 1. At 0, the item breaks. And excess damage goes through to the character, so good luck surviving two strikes from power weapons.

Edited by Comic Collector Shop

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Good point, but my players cried for mercy with that system. Usually their shields only last four attacks before being fully destroyed. Often times not even one combat encounter. We came up with the HP system so the players and myself had a good understanding of how long and  useful a shield was. Also helped for tiering up better shields, higher quality ones may not have more AP but just have more HP (before I had some of the other expansions which detailed it much better). Though we did still keep the 75% of the item breaking from the power weapons. 

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Good point, but my players cried for mercy with that system. Usually their shields only last four attacks before being fully destroyed. Often times not even one combat encounter. We came up with the HP system so the players and myself had a good understanding of how long and  useful a shield was. Also helped for tiering up better shields, higher quality ones may not have more AP but just have more HP (before I had some of the other expansions which detailed it much better). Though we did still keep the 75% of the item breaking from the power weapons. 

That sounds like a decent system, but we're still only now getting a handle on the rules. So throwing more in sounds a bit... daunting.

 

It's listed in the melee weapons table.  Check the notes, shields have a ** (not sure how to list the cross character).

 

* - two handed

** - adds +2 armor to body and arm

*** - power fists add 2xSB

 

Page 159, DH2 Core.

So went back, read the actual entry, checked your post.

Yup. You're right. Which they should have stuck in the shield entry, because there it tells you shields take a -20 for attacking instead of -10. Oi vey.

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Yeah, the rules are pretty all over the place.  I found myself studying the game in a most scholarly fashion in order to best play a techpriest.

 

Regarding shields, it's good for some gritty gameplay to have them subject to degrading, but allowing them to degrade for every AP2 hit is overly punishing.  I'd say give the shield an 'integrity' rating that is modified by quality and 'damaged' by AP.  Each time the integrity is depleted, the shield loses 1 AP and the integrity is refilled.  Whatever you go with, repairing a common shield should only require one minute and a successful test of armorer/tech-use/technomat.

 

If the shield has a power field, then it probably shouldn't break unless interacting with an effect that states "gear is irrecoverable" such as a vehicle explosion critical effect.

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Yeah, the built in armor for the shield is supposed to make up for the inability to use it as cover, that said, they may eventually make a slab/lockshield that you can use as cover, or at least give you resistance to pinning and full body protection while in a defensive stance, but possibly with extra penalties while wielding it, and i doubt it would have the  "gets hit and loses armor rating until destroyed" part of the cover rule. That or they make it some sort of very easily replaced consumable like frag and stun grenades, but i would still have it be an extension of armor rather than have to follow the rules of cover destruction.

 

Also, the sororitas shield is basically a storm shield with power field and everything. You could probably house rule a non-sororitas equivalent without much work, albeit with a penalty to rarity or make it extra bulky.

Edited by BillMcDonagh

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