Dealing with *Those* players

[Bio9 1]

I don't play X Wing...that is to say I have played but I mainly go to a friend's house and he sets up a scenario for us.

 

Armada....I like.  I feel that Armada is not in any way tournament friendly.  For one there is a population of gamers who put way too much self importance and pride in their success rate with miniature games, add prize support and recognition?  Whoa...watch out.

 

There is no way around it.  Water finds the shortest path, and so will people when/where rules are involved.  Create a rule to shore up a shortfall for a tournament and there will be someone there to game it.

 

Play me and well...you're in for a treat.  If you are this player you had better to be ready.  In the 40K/WHF world I tend to do really stupid stuff.  Things someone who has nothing else to loose would do. And sometimes it pays off...but if  you are going to go the extra mile to win?  Then I am going to go the extra mile to make sure that your experience is pretty bad.  Heck I may forget the rules altogether and ask a bunch of questions (did this a couple times in a 40K tournament....it was pretty fun).  

 

Oh I am going to laugh, offer you a beer, make TIE figure sounds, sing the Imperial march....you may enjoy it...but...my tactics will be ridiculous.  Because if you don't care...don't expect me too.

 

At the end of the day the rules only work for those that actually care about them.  RAW, RAI, or the "it doesn't say I can't" are in fact logical fallacies.  They may seem reasonable, but get into that with me...and it's a whole other level of stupid.  We have both agreed to play a game.  A GAME.  not a sport.  The lest we can do is be civil about it.

[VanorDM 11,599]

RAW, RAI, or the "it doesn't say I can't" are in fact logical fallacies.

RAW is not in any way a logical fallacy... I'm all for house rules and people doing what they find enjoyable. But RAW should be default for everyone until they agree on something else.

If I walk into a game store and sit down with some random person to play Armada, or any other game for that matter. RAW is going to be the default method both players should be using, and should be what both assume the other will be using.

If at some point something comes up and you both agree to something, then play it that way. But if you start acting like a jerk because the other person wants to play by the rules as written, you're simply a jerk.

[ScottieATF 2,867]

Well based on your post Bio9, you've highlighted why I feel GW products have been such a detriment to competitive gaming. The attitude you've described is the complete opposite of civil.

Edited May 29, 2015 by ScottieATF

[vyrago 1,051]

 

 

At the end of the day the rules only work for those that actually care about them.  RAW, RAI, or the "it doesn't say I can't" are in fact logical fallacies.  They may seem reasonable, but get into that with me...and it's a whole other level of stupid.  

 

The RAW/RAI debate is something 40k players regularly get into.  mostly because 40k is always in some state of complete brokeness.  I don't miss it at all.  

[Bio9 1]

 

RAW, RAI, or the "it doesn't say I can't" are in fact logical fallacies.

RAW is not in any way a logical fallacy... I'm all for house rules and people doing what they find enjoyable. But RAW should be default for everyone until they agree on something else.

If I walk into a game store and sit down with some random person to play Armada, or any other game for that matter. RAW is going to be the default method both players should be using, and should be what both assume the other will be using.

If at some point something comes up and you both agree to something, then play it that way. But if you start acting like a jerk because the other person wants to play by the rules as written, you're simply a jerk.

 

 

 

 My usual response to the RAW crowd is "of course.  How else am I supposed to understand them?  Osmosis?"  

 

But just because something isn't logical doesn't mean it's wrong.  Don't misunderstand me.  My flippant attitude towards RAW and RAI as interpretive measures is just that....flippant because it can take one down incorrect paths and disallows any other interpretation other then what the originator thinks.  Logic is the pursuit of truth.  Not right vs wrong.

 

Just because I don't agree doesn't mean you have jump off into the deep end of the pool. Am I being a jerk?  Probably, but we are talking about a unique individual mindset that comes to the table already setting the stage.  And well....given that mindset what why should I let him have all the fun?

 

I agree that both players have to work out the fiddly things...that's bound to happen. And I think Armada has several fiddly things that will make tournaments....difficult (?).  Like I said we both agreed to play a game right?  So we should build on that point.   But again this is a unique individual we are talking bout here.

 

That said I think FFG does a fine job in their rules.  Though, don't go too far from the topic of the original post and we are talking about a specific mindset of a player tournament or otherwise.  Finally, I will never be convinced that RAW or RAI are anything other then logical fallacies, when taken to extremes and I can't recall it doing anything but that.  A degree in logic and years of study are proof of enough for me and I don't expect to change any one's mind on that point...frankly I don't have the desire to.   Using RAW as a shield for being right it turns in to a fallacy.

[Boardy 79]

 

Was that guy recently.  Had three plus weeks of failure rolls on dice, and just lost it.  Not my finest hour.

 

I've been there my friend. It's embarrassing as hell but all you can do is apologize and learn from it.

 

 

 

Having played against someone once or twice who has had an outburst, apologizing after the fact is going to make up for 75% of it. The other 25% is continuing to play better in the future and show everyone that you've changed/learned.

[Bio9 1]

Well based on your post Bio9, you've highlighted why I feel GW products have been such a detriment to competitive gaming. The attitude you've described is the complete opposite of civil.

 

And you got all that from my post?  Do I know you?  Do you know me?

[VanorDM 11,599]

Using RAW as a shield for being right it turns in to a fallacy.

So using the rules as written, the plain text in the rule book which by default both parties have to agree to abide by, to show what the correct way to do something is when there's a question makes it a fallacy?

You have a completely different understanding of what a logical fallacy is then I, and as such I won't try to change your mind because clearly there's not much point in it.

[Amanal 2,557]

The critical part - when it comes to *those* players, is not to become one of those players. Whenever you're challenged, be sure to step back and say to yourself two things:

• *This is a learning moment for one or both of us.*
• *The social relations are more important than the outcome of the game*

(Yes, I like bullets and numbering.)

 

I try and predict what my opponent is up to, and I try and caution him if he is doing something that may become a strange rules issue ahead of time. "Don't move you ship yet you haven't shot at all."

 

Where I can I like to avoid rules issues being the cause of a win or a loss for either player.

 

Of course my regular opponent does that all the time, so eventually it becomes "Too bad you moved that ship, you forgot to shoot with it."

[Lyraeus 4,759]

Was that guy recently.  Had three plus weeks of failure rolls on dice, and just lost it.  Not my finest hour.

 

I've been there my friend. It's embarrassing as hell but all you can do is apologize and learn from it.

 

 

Having played against someone once or twice who has had an outburst, apologizing after the fact is going to make up for 75% of it. The other 25% is continuing to play better in the future and show everyone that you've changed/learned.

Having been the player with the outbursts when I continously lost or made a mistake, it distracted from the fun of the game and I know even though I apologized, I will always wonder if they ever want to play me again. . . I got to thank Beatty for setting me straight

[Deathseed 1,738]

 

 

 

Was that guy recently.  Had three plus weeks of failure rolls on dice, and just lost it.  Not my finest hour.

 

I've been there my friend. It's embarrassing as hell but all you can do is apologize and learn from it.

 

 

Having played against someone once or twice who has had an outburst, apologizing after the fact is going to make up for 75% of it. The other 25% is continuing to play better in the future and show everyone that you've changed/learned.

Having been the player with the outbursts when I continously lost or made a mistake, it distracted from the fun of the game and I know even though I apologized, I will always wonder if they ever want to play me again. . . I got to thank Beatty for setting me straight

 

 

Has a way with thumbscrews does he?

[Lyraeus 4,759]

Was that guy recently.  Had three plus weeks of failure rolls on dice, and just lost it.  Not my finest hour.

 

I've been there my friend. It's embarrassing as hell but all you can do is apologize and learn from it.

 

 

Having played against someone once or twice who has had an outburst, apologizing after the fact is going to make up for 75% of it. The other 25% is continuing to play better in the future and show everyone that you've changed/learned.

Having been the player with the outbursts when I continously lost or made a mistake, it distracted from the fun of the game and I know even though I apologized, I will always wonder if they ever want to play me again. . . I got to thank Beatty for setting me straight

 

Has a way with thumbscrews does he?

you could say that

[GrandMoffMatt 958]

Yeah.  I honestly don't know if I will get a game in again.  I thing we'll see this weekend.