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How do you reconcile the Mandalorians?

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ETA: For some Mandalorians, given the troubles sewn on their world by the criminal organizations of the Hutts, Pykes, and Black Sun

Wait, what?!? I just noticed this. There's a criminal organization in Star Wars called the Pykes? Um... I'm just going to file that one alongside "Nubians" as the authors not being that plugged into anything other than America.

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ETA: For some Mandalorians, given the troubles sewn on their world by the criminal organizations of the Hutts, Pykes, and Black Sun

Wait, what?!? I just noticed this. There's a criminal organization in Star Wars called the Pykes? Um... I'm just going to file that one alongside "Nubians" as the authors not being that plugged into anything other than America.

 

They don't drive around in caravans, if that's your concern.

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Sabine is interesting. She is from Mandalore, wears the trappings, but despite likening explosions, isn't violent at least not in a vicious way.

I would think that the darth Maul arc from clone wars awakened some of the martial spirit of Mandalore, but. It the violence conqueror part. At least some of the populace saw the need for giving up pacifism. I suspect the imperial academy was set up to take those who want to fight. Some still try to emulate the past on their own, like I imagine Sabine, some join the Deathwatch - who may oppose the empire.

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When I first found out about mandalorians, I was so annoyed. To me it watered out the coolness of Boba Fett that was, to me, based on his uniqueness. To have lots of them just made him a weaker character in my eyes..

Still not sure I like the existence of them. If it was up to me, they would be an ancient culture that no longer was around and Jango and Boba would just have had one of their ancient and, now, almost unique armor.

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I think I'm paraphrasing Dave Filoni, but having an entire planet of Boba Fetts makes Boba Fett a bit less cool.

 

Chewbacca might disagree.  ...

 

 

Everyone knew from the start that chewbacca was a type of alien species, he was described as a wookiee by the other movie characters, and we knew he wasn`t the only wookiee in the Galaxy!

I totaly Agree with concise Lockert and Dave Filioni! The mandalorians make Boba a weaker character, watering out what made him cool.

I am glad to read that someone else has thought this before me.

Edited by RodianClone

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I thought Boba being taken out by a blind man and screaming like a little girl as he fell to his death after ricocheting off the side of a sail barge made him less cool.

No. That doesn`t make him less cool(read interesting) as a character at all... Omar in the Wire being shot by a little kid only made his role in the story more interesting in a story telling perspective. Maybe it`s not quite the same with Boba,

but his death makes a fun contrast to his badass persona character. Being a weak character in a story has nothing to do with personality, but more the lack of personality or how the personality is presented in the story.

Edited by RodianClone

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I thought Boba being taken out by a blind man and screaming like a little girl as he fell to his death after ricocheting off the side of a sail barge made him less cool.

No. That doesn`t make him less cool(read interesting) as a character at all... Omar in the Wire being shot by a little kid only made his role in the story more interesting in a story telling perspective. Maybe it`s not quite the same with Boba,

but his death makes a fun contrast to his badass persona character. Being a weak character in a story has nothing to do with personality, but more the lack of personality or how the personality is presented in the story.

 

Boba Fett had no personality other than "I like money, he is worth more alive than dead..."  Boba Fett is only cool because someone designed a badass costume for the character...

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I'm pretty much on point with a lot of the posters here. "Mandalorian" is a name for the species that occupies the planet, much like "Earthlings" would describe us. Their planet (and much of their colonies) were largely unified under the militaristic absorption and rule of an aggressive cultural group. The Mandalorian designation either become the de facto designation for the people of the planet, or was the name of that cultural group and later ingrained on the entire populace. The Mandalorians today exist as a largely unified but nondescript galactic entity, not especially prone to warfare but not outright pacifists. They aren't conquerors and their planetary politics are largely restrained to their own system. The association between Mandalorians and bounty hunters or vicious killers simply comes from the fact that many of the people that leave their planet for the greater galaxy have a reputation for being effective at that.

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I go 100% canon with the Mandalorians. It's mentioned in TCW about Jango and I think the Mandalorian Prime Minister remarks to Obi Wan "How he got hold of that armour, I've no idea." I think he's not meant to be Mandalorian, though it's not explicitly stated.

I have Mandalorian society a bit like a modern slightly stereotyped Germany. At one point they were a powerful military force but have now made a conscious and overt political stance toward peace and as a society have channelled their considerable skill and discipline into forging an industrial and prosperous society. As a people, they are regarded as handsome (most Mandalorians are tall, fair and athletic in my setting and TCW actually backs that up), a overly serious (though they certainly do have their fun side, they like to compartmentalize) and generally very well-respected. Most of the galaxy is quite happy with Mandalore like this as they remember a little too well the old Manadalore. No-one wants to see Mandalore on a war-footing again! I see Mandalorians as having a strong culture and loyalty to their people. For me, they're a sort of high-tech, urban-orientated Amish.

Of course this being Sci-Fi, I try to give them a little undercurrent of dark potential. One adventure idea I may or may not run, involves a group of Mandalorian athletes travelling for a competition. Their pacifism is well-known and leads to a number of people taking advantage. I'm thinking there might be a scene where they're pushed to far and respond with extreme and brutal violence before entering shock at what they've done. I want their heritage to not quite be forgotten.

 

 

Then it should be kept in mind that even today, when you let the Bundeswehr off the leash, they're still incredibly capable. Modern Mandalorians should be no different. 

(Some warrior cultures, even when they have embraced pacifism, still maintain their combat capabilities, even if they rarely exercise them. See also: Japan, JDA/JGSDF/JASDF/JMSDF.)

 

 

If you're a Mandalorian warrior in a galaxy at peace, how do you fight as a Mandalorian warrior without becoming the sort of violent extremist that largely comprised Death Watch?

You don't. Soldiers that refuse to hang up their weapons after the fighting is done become violent extremists.

 

Not always. 

Drawing strictly from Westerns, one of the inspirations for Star Wars, we have Rooster Cogburn and Jesse Wales. Both heavily armed, both fighting for the losing side in a conflict, both continuing to make their way through the world with violence. But neither one is a violent extremist or even a criminal. 

 

 

Wait, what?!? I just noticed this. There's a criminal organization in Star Wars called the Pykes? Um... I'm just going to file that one alongside "Nubians" as the authors not being that plugged into anything other than America.

 

The criminal organization is called the Pyke Syndicate. It it chiefly composed of a species called Pykes. So the members of the organization and the organization itself are frequently referred to as "the Pykes". 

Edited by Vigil

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I thought Boba being taken out by a blind man and screaming like a little girl as he fell to his death after ricocheting off the side of a sail barge made him less cool.

 

Really? I thought that was the best part. An Oscar-worthy performance by the Sarlaac, at least.

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I thought Boba being taken out by a blind man and screaming like a little girl as he fell to his death after ricocheting off the side of a sail barge made him less cool.

No. That doesn`t make him less cool(read interesting) as a character at all... Omar in the Wire being shot by a little kid only made his role in the story more interesting in a story telling perspective. Maybe it`s not quite the same with Boba,

but his death makes a fun contrast to his badass persona character. Being a weak character in a story has nothing to do with personality, but more the lack of personality or how the personality is presented in the story.

 

Boba Fett had no personality other than "I like money, he is worth more alive than dead..."  Boba Fett is only cool because someone designed a badass costume for the character...

 

Haha, fair point! And I do agree.

But his character and how it is presented is still ass a silent, strong, unique badass. That is, in a story sense, a character personality and he has a very strong persona and presence in the movies.

His death is in conrast to that persona and presence, a humorous one maybe, and it kind of underlines what the character was and also points out that in this harsh vornskr-eat-vornskr world, noone is invincible.

Edited by RodianClone

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Sometimes characters take on a life of their own for whatever reason. Rambo lived on in movies

even though he never survived the first novel. Back in the day, the Fonz was just supposed to be a throw away character on Happy Days that became a focus of the show. It happens every now and then. Deadpool is another character. Started as a riff on Deathstroke and is now more popular.

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Sometimes characters take on a life of their own for whatever reason. Rambo lived on in movies

even though he never survived the first novel. Back in the day, the Fonz was just supposed to be a throw away character on Happy Days that became a focus of the show. It happens every now and then. Deadpool is another character. Started as a riff on Deathstroke and is now more popular.

 

Was Deadpool a riff on Deathstroke? I thought he started out as Rob Liefeld`s ugly, ugly wet dream, but was later saved and made cool by other writers and and artists. Good ones.

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If you're a Mandalorian warrior in a galaxy at peace, how do you fight as a Mandalorian warrior without becoming the sort of violent extremist that largely comprised Death Watch?

You don't. Soldiers that refuse to hang up their weapons after the fighting is done become violent extremists.

 

 

Not always. 

Drawing strictly from Westerns, one of the inspirations for Star Wars, we have Rooster Cogburn and Jesse Wales. Both heavily armed, both fighting for the losing side in a conflict, both continuing to make their way through the world with violence. But neither one is a violent extremist or even a criminal.

 

Cogburn fought on the side of the Confederates but by the time we pick up his story, he's a marshal, not a soldier. The police enforce the law, soldiers protect the realm but have no authority over the citizens they protect except in extreme situations.

 

Josey Wales was motivated by war crimes, revenge and basic survival. He wasn't a bounty hunter looking to use skills he picked up in the Civil War. He fought because if he didn't, the Union and their bounty hunters would kill him.

The Fetts aren't warriors or even soldiers; they use their violence-related skills to pay their bills. It doesn't honor your clan to sell your talents to a crime boss or a government. Death Watch were warriors - they killed for a cause - but couldn't deal with a society at peace because it hurt their professional or caste ego that they were no longer "in charge" of Mandalorian destiny.

 

Part of being a soldier is knowing when the war is over. You can parlay those skills into other fields, like bounty hunting, but you give up any right to call yourself a soldier, let alone a warrior.

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If you're a Mandalorian warrior in a galaxy at peace, how do you fight as a Mandalorian warrior without becoming the sort of violent extremist that largely comprised Death Watch?

You don't. Soldiers that refuse to hang up their weapons after the fighting is done become violent extremists.

 

 

Not always. 

Drawing strictly from Westerns, one of the inspirations for Star Wars, we have Rooster Cogburn and Jesse Wales. Both heavily armed, both fighting for the losing side in a conflict, both continuing to make their way through the world with violence. But neither one is a violent extremist or even a criminal.

 

Cogburn fought on the side of the Confederates but by the time we pick up his story, he's a marshal, not a soldier. The police enforce the law, soldiers protect the realm but have no authority over the citizens they protect except in extreme situations.

 

Josey Wales was motivated by war crimes, revenge and basic survival. He wasn't a bounty hunter looking to use skills he picked up in the Civil War. He fought because if he didn't, the Union and their bounty hunters would kill him.

The Fetts aren't warriors or even soldiers; they use their violence-related skills to pay their bills. It doesn't honor your clan to sell your talents to a crime boss or a government. Death Watch were warriors - they killed for a cause - but couldn't deal with a society at peace because it hurt their professional or caste ego that they were no longer "in charge" of Mandalorian destiny.

 

Part of being a soldier is knowing when the war is over. You can parlay those skills into other fields, like bounty hunting, but you give up any right to call yourself a soldier, let alone a warrior.

 

 

Historically, until very recently in the West, military forces have been responsible for law enforcement (in some parts of the world, the military is still the chief law enforcement arm). Something we see evidence of even to this day in European countries such as France (gendarme - lit. means man-at-arms, as in a Medieval warrior, but is today the name of French armed police), Italy (carabinieri - lit. carbineers, a soldier armed with a carbine, but is today the name of one of Italy's national police forces), and the former Soviet Union (мили́ция or militsiya, militia, which should be pretty obvious, was the general name for police forces in the Soviet Union and continues to be such in many former Soviet Republics, although they were renamed the politsiya in the Russian Federation in 2011). Japanese samurai were renowned warriors, but their duties more often were one of law enforcement than of combat (when you're a feudal warrior in a country whose chief threats are internal, not external, you're going to spend most of your time enforcing laws). 

 

One of the basic tenants of most every military organization on earth is that once you're a member, you're always a member (unless you dishonor and disgrace yourself or your unit). And, again historically, often nations who had warrior castes had those warrior castes engage in a variety of non-combat and non-military behaviors and tasks, yet those who were born into the caste were forever of that caste. 

So if Jango Fett existed in the real world and joined the US Marine Corps, he would forever be a United States Marine, no matter what he did after he left (so long as it doesn't dishonor or disgrace himself or dishonor or disgrace the Corps). Even if he gets a starring role in his own corny, stupid TV show, Fett: The Bounty Hunter

It's basic espirit de corps

 

In the EU, we even have this with the Jedi Order. If you leave the order, you're still a Jedi, even though you're no longer bound by the rules and regulations and philosophies of the order and no longer enjoy the logistical support of the order. In fact, the Jedi revere those who have left the order. (Those who fall to the Dark Side are, of course, no longer Jedi, just as assuredly as a Marine who joins ISIS is no longer a Marine.)

Further, with the example of the samurai, it was common for warriors to be paid based on the number of enemies they had killed - a form of bounty hunting. And in Europe, knights might hunt down a notorious bandit for the bounty placed on their heads... to say nothing of being paid ransom for capturing enemy combatants. And then you have the Barbary pirates, who would most definitely call themselves warriors (and been respected as such by their peers) capturing Europeans and selling them into slavery or receiving a ransom for releasing them. 

 

The simple fact is that history is filled with warriors and warrior cultures wherein certain behaviors were regularly engaged in that are a short, logical jump from bounty hunting. And there is no reason the Mandalorians could not have historically awarded monies to warriors based on how many of the enemy they killed or captured - with substantial bonuses being given for especially difficult enemies such as wookiees and Jedi. 

 

ETA: If Jango or Boba were born a Gurkha, they would be Gurkhas no matter what they did or where they went. In the religion of Sikhism, all practitioners are supposed to embody a form of sainted soldiery (in a rather more militant and practical form than the idea that all Christians are "soldiers of Christ") - whether they serve in any fashion as part of a nation's armed forces or not. "Races" the British Empire specifically classed as being "martial races". There is no sign that Mandalorians, with the exception of the late Duchess Satine Kryze and her allies, are not what one might think of as being a "martial race". In many ways, Mandalorian armor is in Star Wars like a Gurkha's kukri or a Sikh's dagger and turban in the real world. 

Edited by Vigil

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On a related topic: I saw a toy Slave I at a major retailer today with a 'Rebels' logo on it. 

Now, either this is a mistake, the Rebels label is being slapped on everything Star Wars (it isn't on the new non-Rebels LEGO sets), or Boba is making an appearance in Season 2 of Rebels

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On a related topic: I saw a toy Slave I at a major retailer today with a 'Rebels' logo on it. 

Now, either this is a mistake, the Rebels label is being slapped on everything Star Wars (it isn't on the new non-Rebels LEGO sets), or Boba is making an appearance in Season 2 of Rebels

Toys have a tendency to reveal things not already known or revealed in a given series or film.  The Iron Man 3 Lego sets were notorious as they identified Aldritch Killian as the Mandarin well before the film was released in theaters.

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On a related topic: I saw a toy Slave I at a major retailer today with a 'Rebels' logo on it. 

Now, either this is a mistake, the Rebels label is being slapped on everything Star Wars (it isn't on the new non-Rebels LEGO sets), or Boba is making an appearance in Season 2 of Rebels

Toys have a tendency to reveal things not already known or revealed in a given series or film.  The Iron Man 3 Lego sets were notorious as they identified Aldritch Killian as the Mandarin well before the film was released in theaters.

 

Really? Because I picked up (some) of those pretty much the first day they were available (War Machine and power armor fan) and I didn't know until I watched MovieBob's review. 

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On a related topic: I saw a toy Slave I at a major retailer today with a 'Rebels' logo on it. 

Now, either this is a mistake, the Rebels label is being slapped on everything Star Wars (it isn't on the new non-Rebels LEGO sets), or Boba is making an appearance in Season 2 of Rebels

Toys have a tendency to reveal things not already known or revealed in a given series or film.  The Iron Man 3 Lego sets were notorious as they identified Aldritch Killian as the Mandarin well before the film was released in theaters.

 

Really? Because I picked up (some) of those pretty much the first day they were available (War Machine and power armor fan) and I didn't know until I watched MovieBob's review. 

 

I misspoke.. The Lego Sets identified Aldritch Killian as the film's villain, not as the Mandarin.  It wasn't something that many noticed until after the film released

Edited by Oden Gebhac

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I am going to take the dissenting opinion here. I will admit, I am a disciple of Karen Traviss, and this shapes my bias for the most part. I vastly prefer the "planet of Mandalorians" concept, and the adoptions, and the many races. I like the idea of Mandore rising again. I despise the concept of pacifistic Mandalorians. It seems unnatural. In my world, Mandalore is as Traviss described it in "Order 66" and "501st".

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I am going to take the dissenting opinion here. I will admit, I am a disciple of Karen Traviss, and this shapes my bias for the most part. I vastly prefer the "planet of Mandalorians" concept, and the adoptions, and the many races. I like the idea of Mandore rising again. I despise the concept of pacifistic Mandalorians. It seems unnatural. In my world, Mandalore is as Traviss described it in "Order 66" and "501st".

Ah, but a pacifist Mandalore has so much more potential for tragedy. Think about how sinister it can feel seeing the warlike Mandalore struggling to preserve this thin veneer of peacefulness over centuries of aggression, like a fragile sheet of ice. A terrible threat on the edge of realization is far scarier in literature than actual armies of marching soldiers. That next Deathwatch attack, that vote in the Mandalorian parliament on whether or not to recreate a standing army... just one more turn of the screw and everything could be lost and a resurgent Mandalore decides that conquest is the only way it can ensure its peace. I love the idea of a pacifist Mandalore. It has all the ingredients of something downright Shakespearean. Those old Babylon 5 episodes where they would desperately try avert the descent into war were far tenser than those episodes where it actually had. Falling is nothing compared to standing on the edge of a cliff.

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