Trying to make 2 assault frigates work.

[Elkerlyc 727]

In a few weeks I'll be going to my very first Armada tournament. (300 points)

The very first in my country even!

 

My (educated) guess is that Imperials are at the moment more popular so in order to see less mirror matches I am considering Rebels.

 

Specifically; dual Space Whales combined with an unhealthy (for imps I hope) chunk of squadrons.

 

I know I won't be able to play-test a lot. I am hoping (!) for 2/3 games.

Hence I need all the help I can get in theorycrafing.

 

Starting point:

 

Assault Frigate Mark II A(81 pts),Paragon (5 pts)

Assault Frigate Mark II B(72 pts),Gallant Haven (8 pts)

Commander; Dodonna (since he is cheapest/might upgrade if it does me any good though)

 

Squadrons something like:

4x A-Wing (44) and 4x Y-Wing (40)

(subject to change, note I 'only' have 2 fighter packs so 4 of any kind is my maximum)

 

-> this is already 270 points, leaving a mere 30 points for upgrades and/or ini bid.

 

The options I am considering:

-Enhanced Armament (10) or X17 Turbolasers (6)

-Sensor Team (5) for Paragon, Flight Controllers (6) for Gallant Heaven.

-Electronic Countermeasures or Advanced Projectors

-All of the officers seem viable...

 

 

Which upgrades would you recommend and why?

Which squadrons (and perhaps named chars) would you pick? why?

 

Any help much appreciated.

 

 

[ScottieATF 2,867]

Last night I ran 2 of the cheaper Mk2s both outfitted with Enhanced Armaments, Sensor Team, and Intel Officers.

Garm Bell in Command, with Wedge, Dutch, 2 As, and 2 Xs for Squadrons.

I detroyed my opponents whole force by games end. Losing only 3 Squadrons and a MK2 (Forced out of play)

Intel Officer was money all game. It really hampered his ability to defend my attacks and because of the long range capabilities of the MK2 with EA I was able to bleed his ships from a far as he was often unable to utilize his tokens properly.

Sensor Teams I am unsure of. They did help assure 2 kill shots on ships by giving me the needed Accuracy to lock out his tokens. But they do have a decent cost point wise and require you to spend a dice. Gunnery Team may be a good option on a non-Paragon ship as with the wide side arc and the way in which they prefer to be flown I often had multiple targets for a broadside.

My Squadrons I picked at random really.

Garm Bel was ok.

I'd highly suggest Enhanced Armaments.

[ficklegreendice 34,362]

I'll just slap my list down here

 

"The Humpback" - Afmkii A

*Garm

*Intelligence Agent

*x-17s

*paragon

 

"The Baby Beluga" - Afmkii B

*Electronic Countermeasures

*x-17s

*Gallant Haven

 

6 X-wing squadrons

 

[Total: 295]

 

 

I love the flexibility Garm brings (especially the nav token)

 

Paragon is a goddamn boss monster (Brace really holds it back, though, so enter the int agent)

 

Gallant Haven single-handedly counters the entire imperial navy's alloment of squadrons.

 

Gallant Haven has ECM and not paragon because paragon has yet to take any damage. Haven's conspicuous positioning and state of being surrounded by a little swarm of X-wings means it has to be the first thing targeted. This is also why Garm isn't on the cheaper ship

Edited May 27, 2015 by ficklegreendice

[Elkerlyc 727]

ficklegreendice:

 

Questions;

-which objectives did you pick and why?

-Is the bid of a mere 5 points enough? Or you simply do not care?

-No A-Wings? Or Y-Wings? X for simply being robust and allround?

 

Will certainly have a good look at this. Seems spot on on what I have in mind..

[ficklegreendice 34,362]

ficklegreendice:

 

Questions;

-which objectives did you pick and why?

-Is the bid of a mere 5 points enough? Or you simply do not care?

-No A-Wings? Or Y-Wings? X for simply being robust and allround?

 

Will certainly have a good look at this. Seems spot on on what I have in mind..

 

oh right sorry, keep forgetting to post objectives

 

we have

 

*Intel Sweep (fatties can move, surprisingly)

*Fleet Ambush (fire lanes and contested outpost seem to inordinately favor destroyers, but fleet ambush parks one poor guy right in front of your guns)

*Advanced Gunnery (havn't seen a VSD that wasn't dedicated to squadron support in a while, but paragon loves him some double-taps out the same arc)

 

For the bid, I don't care. Fatties are quite flexible ships and they seem to do fine either way.

Besides, it seems every imp list takes initiative right away for their gladiators and bid an absurd amount of points for it. Maybe one day I'll try dropping x17s from Haven, but for now they've been very useful in supporting paragon as he smashes through things.

 

As for X-wings, it's mainly because gallant haven doesn't really need its squadrons going too fast The health over the a-wing is very nice and very aggravating with the damage cancelation and I like the potential damage that BOMBER can dish out (both in the one two hit icon and in criticals after x17s have made a hole in a hull zone). Who knows, a-wings might be the way to go but I don't own 7 and I don't want to grab two more fighter packs yet

 

since I feel the two fatties (Esp paragon) do plenty of anti-ship work on their own, though, I want my squadrons to be anti-squadron first and anti-ship only when they've dealt with enemy squadrons (so no dedicated bombers yet)

Edited May 27, 2015 by ficklegreendice

[ScottieATF 2,867]

I don't know I like Firing Lanes with MK2s with EA. They have such wide side arcs they can easily be at range of two markers early and often. And have an easier time bring two arcs from one ship to bear on marker as well. I feel like you'll be able to score points early and really pressure your opponent into bad exchanges with your superior range.

I agree with Outpost though. No need to play an objective that forces you to get close with a ship that best works from afar.

My guess is that when playing as the Second Player you'll be playing a lot of Intel Sweep as it is the least evil of the three options. And in the mirror match may not be in your favor.

[ficklegreendice 34,362]

I've had equal numbers of ambush and nav

They're both good for the fatties because they Emphasize Strafing along the side of something (the ambushed ship or a line of tokens) which falls nicely into the fatties' play style

With lanes you're sort of tethered to a few tokens that don't go away when you get in distance one of them. Idk, I personally don't enjoy that objective with fatties. When Mon cals hit, though...

It's also quite probable I just don't know how to properly deploy the fl tokens

Edited May 27, 2015 by ficklegreendice

[GilDK 47]

The list I have played so far with some succes

 

 [ REBEL FLEET (297 points)

1 • Assault Frigate Mark II A - General Dodonna - Raymus Antilles - Enhanced Armament - Paragon (123)
2 • Assault Frigate Mark II B - Adar Tallon - Expanded Hangar Bay (87)
3 • X-wing Squadron (13)
4 • X-wing Squadron (13)
5 • Tycho Celchu A-wing Squadron (16)
6 • A-wing Squadron (11)
7 • Keyan Farlander B-wing Squadron (20)
8 • B-wing Squadron (14)
9 • Objectives - Advanced Gunnery - Hyperspace Assault - Superior Positions (0)
http://armada.fabpsb.net/permalink.php?sq=r7c2o8t1f11r8o9g1r6r6r12r13r10r11r0a1a8a12 ]
r7c2o8t1f11r8o9g1r6r6r12r13r10r11r0a1a8a12

Edited May 28, 2015 by GilDK

[DrunkTarkin 850]

You shouldn't feel compelled to use squadrons, I believe. Two MkII can move diagonally towards the big enemies, then cut either behind or in front of them without losing any firepower either way. These twins can move in a mutually supporting manner (slightly offset bow-to-stern) and ultimately provide the most value for their controller as punch takers. Sure, their firepower is relatively high, but nothing else in the Reb fleet can take damage so well. I've used two of them with zero squadrons and 3 CR90 instead. The CR90 being the force that hits the off-side.

 

I understand the love of squadrons, but they require a different level of stewardship to run appropriately, and they're only shooting twice a game. A CR90 can usually shoot more if its controller wants to.

Edited May 28, 2015 by DrunkTarkin

[ficklegreendice 34,362]

cr-90s won't protect you from rhymer or gladiators

[DrunkTarkin 850]

No, but Rhymer doesn't just cruise around and destroy. You need ships near Rhymer to attack. How many points are you sinking into getting a couple Rhymer bombs off? I'm not saying Rhymer is pointless, but every time I read someone type that Rhymer is just simply a force of destruction I shake my head. The Turbo Gladiator, done-up with forty points of upgrade cards, is something to be mindful of constantly.

 

I guess I need to play some more games. In the nine I played against Rhymer this weekend with no squadrons, I went from treating him like everyone does on these forums to simply looking at him (and the 90 points of squadrons around him) as any other 100-point unit. Why the answer to that can only be "take squadrons bro or else Rhymer wins" just boggles my mind.

 

If the opponent is making Rhymer work dangerously, that means he or she has dedicated at least six command value to propelling Rhymer around the table, since the only way Rhymer is dangerous is when he's moving before shooting. That means you're steering Rhymer and Crew around with two VSD ... that sounds a lot like someone just taking three VSD! Rhymer's just another ship on the table.

[ficklegreendice 34,362]

rhymer is a force of destruction, though

 

34 points (him and two bombers) spit out 3 black dice at medium range, which far exceeds the damage potential of the cr90-b by farting out some 3-4 consistent damage. With medium range he is also far less reliant on squadron commands since he can threat a sizable bubble.

 

he is the imperial's sole source of convincing "long range" firepower (only they're flinging fighters instead of projectiles) and they will tear a hole into your cap ships, fatties including, if left uncontested

 

squadrons a significant part of the game and they're going to play a significant role. This doesn't mean you have to build only squadron centric lists (mine certainly isnt) but having some around won't hurt.

 

also, we don't need the "bro." we're not in a frat

[Elkerlyc 727]

Tonight my opponent will bring a Rhymer-centric fleet. (at least; he said he would)

 

I'll try this:

 

Flagship: (119 pts)

• Assault Frigate Mark II A(81 pts)
• General Dodonna (20 pts)
• Paragon (5 pts)
• XI7 Turbolasers (6 pts)
• Ray Antilles (7 pts)

Fleet Ship 1: (86 pts)

• Assault Frigate Mark II B(72 pts)
• Gallant Haven (8 pts)
• Flight Controllers (6 pts)

Fleet Ship 2: (44 pts)

• CR90 Corvette B(39 pts)
• Jaina's Light (2 pts)
• Leia Organa (3 pts)

Squadrons (49 of 100 pts):

• 1x Tycho Celchu A-Wing Squadron (16 pts)
• 3x A-Wing Squadron (33 pts)

Objectives:

• Advanced Gunnery
• Fleet Ambush
• Intel Sweep

(298 of 300 pts)

[Green Knight 9,746]

What do you need the A for? Anti-squadron fire? With Haven and a decent fighter setup, you might be better served by to Bs, no?

[Elkerlyc 727]

What do you need the A for? Anti-squadron fire? With Haven and a decent fighter setup, you might be better served by to Bs, no?

 

You tell me where to find the points.

 

edit; I misunderstood. I prefer the extra blue die really. If I can fit it in.

But willing to listen to your suggestion(s)

Edited June 12, 2015 by Elkerlyc

[Indomitable 215]

Rather than start a whole new thread I'll add some lists I've been brainstorming. These are an attempt to run all caps or with minimal squadrons and overload on the speed & range of the Assault frigate.

List 1: AF spam - 290 pts

CR90a w/ Bel Iblis, Jainia's Light, Leia - 74

Assault Frigate MKIIb x 3 - 216

Obj: opening salvo, fleet ambush, dangerous terrain

This list is a pure brute force spam of the AF, use what I've come to call my command corvette to help the most critical or at risk frigate adapt on the fly.

---

List 2: Peregrine Strike Force - 300

AF MKIIb w/ Paragon, Def Liason, Sensor Team, ECM, and XI-7s - 98

AF MKIIb w/ Bel Iblis, Def. Liason, ECM - 100

AF MKIIb w/ Def. Liason, ECM, Enh. Armament - 92

Obj: Adv. Gunnery, fleet ambush, dangerous terrain

This a nod to Bel Iblis' running groups of 3 dreadnaughts early on in the Thrawn trilogy... Since we don't have dreadnaughts yet, running a trio of their descendants.

---

List 3: The balance list - 300

Com. Corvette: CR90a w/ BI, JL, L - 74

AF MKIIa w/ Gun Team, Point Def Reroute, Enh. Armaments - 103

AF MKIIb w/ Paragon, Intel Ofc, XI-7 - 90

A-wing x 3

Obj: Adv. Gunnery, Fleet ambush, and dangerous terrain

This was an attempt I include some AA support. Goal is to use counter and mass damage from the gunnery teamed MKIIa to hopefully keep fighters under control.

--edit

I want to try all three but I really want to run the spam list against a triple victory list for kicks.

Edited June 12, 2015 by Indomitable

[ficklegreendice 34,362]

not sure the Af's a ship that you want to spam (not till Akbar, anyway)

 

at the very least, that beautiful Squadron 3 is going to waste

[DWRR 898]

I want to test run two AF2s paired with three Corvettes. Should be a good little list.

Edited June 12, 2015 by DWRR

[Elkerlyc 727]

Today my Rebels spanked the Imperial bomber list just fine. (thoroughly too!)

 

One thing I took from the game is that I shall drop Gallant Haven. Too expensive for the range.

I'll equip the other AF with shooty upgrades.

 

Between the two of them they absolutely murderized (yeah; I know this is dunglish) the Victory.

4 A-wings work surprisingly well.

 

Back to the frawing board with another bit of experience...

[Boothy 59]

I haven’t tried a double AF2 list yet (its on the list of things to try though). Some of the weapon combo’s look very nice. Things like:

-         X-I7’s and intel officer on both ships, pretty much nullifies two types of defence token a turn

-        Enhanced armament and sensor teams – plenty of dice to change for accuracy when needed

 

With only two ships how do people find the damage output against multiple enemy ships? The two are only throwing out 6-10 dice from the broadsides each turn depending on upgrades and range, and so my first though is to put gunnery teams on them to work on two targets at once. If people are running more balls to the wall with AF2a’s and charging in to get both arcs working I can see this being less of a problem (especially with paragon), but then they are flying straight at the enemy which seems risky.

 

Has anyone tried using advanced projectors on Af2a’s and running away while firing both arcs and redirecting hits to the front/offside shields? It sounds nice in theory, but I can imagine it would face serious on table logistical issues (opponent changing speed, opponent with more activations refusing to move into range, opponent disengaging more or less at will).

 

On the bomber vs CR90 debate, I think the CR90 deals more damage…….every dice face is a success on the CR90b (same range as major bombers) and it has more dice (and accuracies are good!)…….with concentrated fire and two arcs it should be dealing a fair bit more than three major bombers. It also doesn’t get locked down by enemy squadrons. The CR90 also isn’t locked into moving or shooting without supporting ships. On the flip side the bombers have more flexibility with when and where they attack which is fantastic…..and when they can be afforded a squadron command every turn (or ever other turn – whatever it takes) that flexibility becomes really really good.

[Overdawg 349]

I haven’t tried a double AF2 list yet (its on the list of things to try though). Some of the weapon combo’s look very nice. Things like:

-         X-I7’s and intel officer on both ships, pretty much nullifies two types of defence token a turn

-        Enhanced armament and sensor teams – plenty of dice to change for accuracy when needed

 

With only two ships how do people find the damage output against multiple enemy ships? The two are only throwing out 6-10 dice from the broadsides each turn depending on upgrades and range, and so my first though is to put gunnery teams on them to work on two targets at once. If people are running more balls to the wall with AF2a’s and charging in to get both arcs working I can see this being less of a problem (especially with paragon), but then they are flying straight at the enemy which seems risky.

 

Has anyone tried using advanced projectors on Af2a’s and running away while firing both arcs and redirecting hits to the front/offside shields? It sounds nice in theory, but I can imagine it would face serious on table logistical issues (opponent changing speed, opponent with more activations refusing to move into range, opponent disengaging more or less at will).

 

On the bomber vs CR90 debate, I think the CR90 deals more damage…….every dice face is a success on the CR90b (same range as major bombers) and it has more dice (and accuracies are good!)…….with concentrated fire and two arcs it should be dealing a fair bit more than three major bombers. It also doesn’t get locked down by enemy squadrons. The CR90 also isn’t locked into moving or shooting without supporting ships. On the flip side the bombers have more flexibility with when and where they attack which is fantastic…..and when they can be afforded a squadron command every turn (or ever other turn – whatever it takes) that flexibility becomes really really good.

You find amazing damage output in well played bomber squadrons with dual whales.  In my builds they account for about 50% of my damage.  I am very successful with them and to everyone's dismay my B-wings always get to their capital ships and wreck them.

Edited June 14, 2015 by Overdawg

[broodwarjc 2]

I just got my second whale, can't wait to try out two of them. My preferred cards on them is Paragon, Intel Officer, X-17 Turbolaser, and Electronic Countermeasures.

[basicallyrebellious 0]

I've been using a double Mark II A fleet for several games now, and it has worked quite well.

 

I have dropped the titles, as they have proven to be ineffective. Gallant Haven seems to be in effect only until your Mark II moves away from the squadrons - so basically it is effective for maybe one turn, but once your squadrons are tied up, your ship moves away, leaving them unprotected thereafter. And Paragon is simply too hard to maneuver into when your opponent is in constant motion as well. I have used their points for other upgrades that will/have been more useful. I run 2 X-Wing squadrons, and 2 A-Wing squadrons. Those along with the anti-squadron fire from the ships have been sufficient to dispose of enemy squadrons. The fleet adds up to exactly 300 points. 

 

The latest threat that I have run into is a Gladiator managing to get into my Mark II's rear arc! Once it is there, it seems impossible to shake. And once it moves into short range... it is just a matter of time... (

[ficklegreendice 34,362]

Haven is for the slower rebellion squadrons--so basically bombers--to shelter in until they can deliver their payload. Howlie + FC interceptors tend to butcher them, otherwise. Haven can also use those slower bombers to repurpose itself into a kind of moving fortress that dissuades close range ships from approaching her. A-wings don't need Haven (because sweet sweet speed 5)

 

Paragon I feel is too good to pass up (until Akbar). It's not triggering all the time, but for a measly five points it can fart out a ridiculous amount of damage. The trick, as with everything in Armada, is planning ahead. Align that line between two arcs exactly where you don't want your opponent to be and watch him not go there.

Edited June 15, 2015 by ficklegreendice

[broodwarjc 2]

Haven is for the slower rebellion squadrons--so basically bombers--to shelter in until they can deliver their payload. Howlie + FC interceptors tend to butcher them, otherwise. Haven can also use those slower bombers to repurpose itself into a kind of moving fortress that dissuades close range ships from approaching her. A-wings don't need Haven (because sweet sweet speed 5)

 

Paragon I feel is too good to pass up (until Akbar). It's not triggering all the time, but for a measly five points it can fart out a ridiculous amount of damage. The trick, as with everything in Armada, is planning ahead. Align that line between two arcs exactly where you don't want your opponent to be and watch him not go there.

Yep Paragon is definitely worth 5 points, getting a black die at long range (or even TWO! with concentrate fire command)is easily worth one of the cheapest titles in the game. I don't really like Gallant Haven since I think more experienced opponents realize that they know exactly where the majority of your is going to be (if you move away from your squadrons then the title is a waste of points, but if you move with them, then you make your blob a predictable target).