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Deltmi

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PewPewPew, look at the Andrasta card. The icons are obviously a shorcut for a proper word - a type of an upgrade card.

What you are trying to do, is to advocate logic that auxiliary arc is not an arc. But we know such logic is wrong.

As for Moff flipping two crits: I thought it was a joke not a serious question. Crits are dealt one at a time. If you play differently then you are cheating.

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...

 

Wonder if/when we will see double torp, cannon, missile, bomb upgrades?  Have we seen the bottom left corners of all the wave 7 cards?

 

This is where I have been expecting to see a "double slot" requiring upgrade.  I've long suggested a cannon like (ie. non-discarding) torpedo and/or missile as a possible 'fix' although having it require two slots would make sure it only showed up ships with real ordnance potential.  The Punisher kind of does that with Extra Munitions but it isn't really the same.

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It's not a stretch to look at the rule book and say "yup, what's printed here is accurate an absolute."

I agree that there will be an FAQ or whatever but right now, using the information we currently have, you can't Jerjerod the Emperor.

The Emperor is a [crew] upgrade card that takes up two [crew] slots, not a brand new type of upgrade.

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When I first read the card, I assumed Sheev could change an entire roll, not just one die. I do hope they FAQ that- I had visions of a Whisper at Range 1 doling out 5 crits.

This looks like a nice defensive buff to me. A red die has 4/8 success faces, but a green die has only 3/8 success faces. So I can use my tokens on offense, and Palpetine on Defense, or build hyper defensively and let the Emperor guide my dice on offense. Either way, I'm getting a lot more out of my defenses than usually would. Long live the Emperor!

I also thought you could change an entire roll. "Duh. All crits." -Me

 

 

That would be so broken. Kenkirk + Expose + Emperor = 4 crits every turn, or 5 crits at range 1.

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It's not a stretch to look at the rule book and say "yup, what's printed here is accurate an absolute."I agree that there will be an FAQ or whatever but right now, using the information we currently have, you can't Jerjerod the Emperor.

The Emperor is a [crew] upgrade card that takes up two [crew] slots, not a brand new type of upgrade.

The rules disagree.

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I have a plug that fits a hole for two prongs. I need two holes to plug it in, but it is not a prong. It's more than the sum of its parts.

 

Using your logic no ship in the game could even use Palpatine because the only have crew upgrade slots and not a double crew upgrade slot. 

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When I first read the card, I assumed Sheev could change an entire roll, not just one die. I do hope they FAQ that- I had visions of a Whisper at Range 1 doling out 5 crits.

This looks like a nice defensive buff to me. A red die has 4/8 success faces, but a green die has only 3/8 success faces. So I can use my tokens on offense, and Palpetine on Defense, or build hyper defensively and let the Emperor guide my dice on offense. Either way, I'm getting a lot more out of my defenses than usually would. Long live the Emperor!

I also thought you could change an entire roll. "Duh. All crits." -Me

 

 

That would be so broken. Kenkirk + Expose + Emperor = 4 crits every turn, or 5 crits at range 1.

 

If Only. Then fear would keep the systems in line. Fear of Maarek Stele.

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I have a plug that fits a hole for two prongs. I need two holes to plug it in, but it is not a prong. It's more than the sum of its parts.

 

Using your logic no ship in the game could even use Palpatine because the only have crew upgrade slots and not a double crew upgrade slot.

This is literally the opposite of what I just said.

The slots are the holes, you see, and the Emperor is the plug.

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It's not a stretch to look at the rule book and say "yup, what's printed here is accurate an absolute."I agree that there will be an FAQ or whatever but right now, using the information we currently have, you can't Jerjerod the Emperor.

The Emperor is a [crew] upgrade card that takes up two [crew] slots, not a brand new type of upgrade.
The rules disagree.

No, they don't. Are you done trolling yet?

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I have a plug that fits a hole for two prongs. I need two holes to plug it in, but it is not a prong. It's more than the sum of its parts.

 

Using your logic no ship in the game could even use Palpatine because the only have crew upgrade slots and not a double crew upgrade slot.

This is literally the opposite of what I just said.

The slots are the holes, you see, and the Emperor is the plug.

 

 

Emperor Palpatine is a crew upgrade that takes up two slots. Moff Jerjerrod can discard a crew upgrade to flip a damage card face down. The number of slots taken up by that crew upgrade are immaterial to Jerjerrod's ability to discard it because it is still a crew upgrade card by type. If the developers had not wanted Palpatine to act as a crew upgrade card then they could have created a new type of upgrade. Any other interpretation of this information is wilful ignorance. 

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Trolls aside I think this upgrade card is fantastic. Its thematically strong with a wide array of applications and seemingly costed quite fairly. Do we have any idea what other upgrade cards might accompany the Raider? The Tantive has crew upgrades for C3PO, Han Solo, R2-D2 and Leia Organa so is it likely to assume there will be four crew upgrades with the Raider? 

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Trolls aside I think this upgrade card is fantastic. Its thematically strong with a wide array of applications and seemingly costed quite fairly. Do we have any idea what other upgrade cards might accompany the Raider? The Tantive has crew upgrades for C3PO, Han Solo, R2-D2 and Leia Organa so is it likely to assume there will be four crew upgrades with the Raider?

They've already spoiled Tarkin, Needa, and Ozzel. All of them are huge ship only.

I think there might be one card that look like an Imperial Officer that is unspoiled and a pair of cards that look like they might be two copies of some sort of droid. Due to all the space before the name it looks like it will be short (like a generic droid designation). It might start with either a P or an R.

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A lower PS (which the Phantom change is starting to eliminate the VI race) build would be:

OGP+Palps+Engine+HLC: 40 (maybe dumping HLC for Ysanne and/or EU for an initiative bid).

Royal Tie+Royal Title+Autothrusters+Stealth+PTL: 30

Royal Tie+Royal Title+Autothrusters+Stealth+PTL.: 30

100 total. Slow roll Palps but he will get some good 4 dice shots in there. The TIEs are decently high and match out against dual IG-88s. Palps gives you plenty of options in defending the Ties (getting that extra evade so your Stealth Device lasts longer than the initial salvo) or boosting their shooting. And should you not have to use Palps with your Ties your HLC can use the boost on targets of opportunity. 3 hits and a blank on HLC? Change the blank to Crit...yes, a way to get that 1 crit from an HLC shot.

Fat Han shoots you? 2 hits, you roll 2 evades. Roll an evade to a blank, take the hit on a shield, and give Gunner the finger.

And how many games have you seen come down to last turn, last hull point, last hit...and you roll a blank.

BUT WAIT! I have The EMPORAH!!!! Change that blank into an evade. Win the game. Advance to Top 8. Hot chicks in Metal Bikinis start noticing you.

Ok, maybe not that last one...your still a geek after all.

 

And if he goes after the Shuttle (with 10 damage and Palps helping with the green dice) your TIEs will rip him to shreds. Sure, you may lose your 40 point Shuttle...in exchange for him losing a 50+ point Dash/Han/IG.

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I see pewpewpews logic. The moff card specifies the symbol it doesn't say it in words. RAW does seem like it can't pitch palpatine. It will have to be FAQ Ed for sure but I can see the argument either way. It is a crew card yes. But moff specifies a one crew symbol card so pewpewpews is right in my book

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Also I think it's rather rude of everyone who is accusing him of trolling. He is presenting arguments in a logical manner and not being aggressive. I think everyone needs to remember about flying casual and needs to post casual.

People accusing someone who is trying to debate in a rational manner are being internet bullies and are way worse than trolls. If you feel you are doing that please take a chill pill and lets all get along.

Sorry for double post my phone makes it hard to edit

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Doesn't the Raider only have 2 crew slots? So the Emprah takes up all of them, short of a title that gives more crew slots. We haven't seen the back sides of the Raider cards, so we don't know whether a crippled section gets to retain a crew (or at least as far as I know). Not sure he is the best best choice on a Raider. In epic I would probably put him on a shuttle or Decimator regardless.

I really like his card, it is clear that they really thought hard about how to make him great and fitting for the game. I wasn't sure they would be able to make him viable in standard play, but they have done an outstanding job. The double crew slot was a great move. Can't wait for Jabba to take up 3 crew slots. Also now I really want an Obi Wan crew.

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A lower PS (which the Phantom change is starting to eliminate the VI race) build would be:

OGP+Palps+Engine+HLC: 40 (maybe dumping HLC for Ysanne and/or EU for an initiative bid).

Royal Tie+Royal Title+Autothrusters+Stealth+PTL: 30

Royal Tie+Royal Title+Autothrusters+Stealth+PTL.: 30

100 total. Slow roll Palps but he will get some good 4 dice shots in there. The TIEs are decently high and match out against dual IG-88s. Palps gives you plenty of options in defending the Ties (getting that extra evade so your Stealth Device lasts longer than the initial salvo) or boosting their shooting. And should you not have to use Palps with your Ties your HLC can use the boost on targets of opportunity. 3 hits and a blank on HLC? Change the blank to Crit...yes, a way to get that 1 crit from an HLC shot.

Fat Han shoots you? 2 hits, you roll 2 evades. Roll an evade to a blank, take the hit on a shield, and give Gunner the finger.

And how many games have you seen come down to last turn, last hull point, last hit...and you roll a blank.

BUT WAIT! I have The EMPORAH!!!! Change that blank into an evade. Win the game. Advance to Top 8. Hot chicks in Metal Bikinis start noticing you.

Ok, maybe not that last one...your still a geek after all.

 

And if he goes after the Shuttle (with 10 damage and Palps helping with the green dice) your TIEs will rip him to shreds. Sure, you may lose your 40 point Shuttle...in exchange for him losing a 50+ point Dash/Han/IG.

 

The big problem with adding the HLC+EU to the Shuttle is that you've almost guaranteed that the Shuttle is the primary target. It's the most expensive thing you've got on the board, it has an awesome squad buff, it can use its HLC to do serious damage if ignored, and is going to be the thing that is easiest for most lists to burn down. 

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Discussion of the Moff offing Palpatine should probably just wait for the FAQ to clear up.  It may be legal or it may not be legal depending on how the symbols are read.  Of course the "why the **** would you do it" is the baffling part.  Sacrificing Palpatine instead of the Moff had better be a game winning move otherwise it would just be foolish to get rid of an upgrade you can use every turn for one that might just save the day again.

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I see pewpewpews logic. The moff card specifies the symbol it doesn't say it in words. RAW does seem like it can't pitch palpatine. It will have to be FAQ Ed for sure but I can see the argument either way. It is a crew card yes. But moff specifies a one crew symbol card so pewpewpews is right in my book

 

Also I think it's rather rude of everyone who is accusing him of trolling. He is presenting arguments in a logical manner and not being aggressive. I think everyone needs to remember about flying casual and needs to post casual.

People accusing someone who is trying to debate in a rational manner are being internet bullies and are way worse than trolls. If you feel you are doing that please take a chill pill and lets all get along.

Sorry for double post my phone makes it hard to edit

 

 

I'm sorry but I don't see PewPewPew presenting any arguments or refuting anything. He just keeps making the same assertions and wording them slightly differently. Nothing he has written leads me to doubt that the Emperor is a Crew upgrade and that Moff Jerjerrod discards Crew upgrades. There is nothing that suggests that the number of crew icons listed on an upgrade card makes it a different type of upgrade.

 

The article isn't a rules update but it does refer to Palpatine as a crew upgrade and calls out that he costs two crew slots. Moff Jerjerrod's text doesn't mention anything about slots. It calls out discarding a "[Crew Icon] Upgrade" as the cost for flipping a face-up damage card face down. 

 

There is nothing that even points to the number of icons in Moff Jerjerrod's card text being of any significance.

 

There isn't really anything to debate. There is one person making assertions here that many others are rejecting. There is nothing in the rules or FAQ that point to the icons being used in card text to refer to a particular type of upgrade for being but shorthand.

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It's not a stretch to look at the rule book and say "yup, what's printed here is accurate an absolute."I agree that there will be an FAQ or whatever but right now, using the information we currently have, you can't Jerjerod the Emperor.

The Emperor is a [crew] upgrade card that takes up two [crew] slots, not a brand new type of upgrade.
The rules disagree.

No, they don't.

I see pewpewpews logic.

Can you also hear the sound of one hand clapping?

Also I think it's rather rude of everyone who is accusing him of trolling. He is presenting arguments in a logical manner and not being aggressive. I think everyone needs to remember about flying casual and needs to post casual.

People accusing someone who is trying to debate in a rational manner are being internet bullies and are way worse than trolls. If you feel you are doing that please take a chill pill and lets all get along.

Sorry for double post my phone makes it hard to edit

The problem is he's not presenting arguments at all, but rather making assertions. The rules don't explain anything about upgrade cards with two icons, but there are some intuitive guesses to make.

And ordinarily intuition and guessing wouldn't be worth much, but in this case there are only two outcomes: Palpatine is a [crew] Upgrade card, or he isn't. If he is, then all the rules have to do is explain that he fills two upgrade slots. But if he isn't--if he's a new [crew][crew] upgrade card--then the rules need to explain a lot more about how that new upgrade type works, including how it interacts wih every other effect that references [crew] upgrade cards. At the moment, I think that just means Jerjerrod, but it doesn't matter: in order to future-proof the [crew][crew] upgrade card type, they have a lot of defining to do. Oh, and they have to do it in a way that isn't horribly confusing.

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But there is a third option Vorpal. That's that he is a crew card but not a <crew symbol> upgrade. Moff shows one symbol. It says <one symbol> upgrade not "crew upgrade". I can see where people would argue that the symbol is a placeholder for the actual word. HOWEVER that is not stated explicitly. So since palpatine is obviously a "crew upgrade" but it's not so clear if he counts as a "<single symbol> upgrade" you can argue either way and make sense. Those two things have a subtle difference but by RAW are not mutually inclusive.

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Also Vorpal I'm assuming you are an adult so unless you are a child please grow up. There was zero reason to be snarky. Unless you are incapable of defending your points with debate you don't have to stoop to that level.

The one hand clapping comment added nothing to your point and using debate tactics along that vein are for the weak of mind. I've seen you make some really good arguments and argue your points well in the past. You are better than that so please leave that nonsense out of the debate or Please don't bother replying.

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