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MrDodger

FFG Star Wars - Legendary or not?

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When the decision was made to reclassify the Expanded Universe (EU) as Legends, many stories and characters were cast into limbo. The official statement was that the 6 movies, Star Wars: The Clone Wars and Star Wars Rebels were canon, as was everything published in novel form by Del Rey and Marvel Comics. The oddity that was Darth Maul, Son of Dathomir would be considered canon as it was based on unused Clone Wars scripts. Also included was the short story fiction appearing in Star Wars insider. 

 

What this meant was that anything not shown in any of those media was not canon. It didn't necessarily mean that it no longer existed, or if it did exist that the history would be anything resembling what it used to be. (ref. Mandalore, for a perfect example). But the story group and all the associated writers and artists were free to 'mine' the Legends material for content. A perfect recent example is the Interdictor cruiser. It never appeared in any film, but was an integral part of the EU. Now thanks to the novel 'Tarkin' it is part of official continuity. 

 

So where does this leave FFG, and specifically the RPG? Much of the material was published after the 'Legends' announcement, but none of the products have the Legends banner on them. So are they canon?

 

Logically, no - they can't be. They reference far too many things that we KNOW to be Legends material as of now (eg Starkiller from the Force Unleashed, the Rakata, or Centerpoint Station). 

 

The CCG and the various miniature games also can’t be considered. Not only do they contain many Legends references, from ships and characters to events, but they also have situations where movie characters can die regularly (**** those agility dice!).

 

Which brings me somewhat circuitously to my point. At Celebration this year, Pablo Hidalgo was asked about the canonicity of the Old Republic MMO (SWTOR). He replied that they love what Bioware have done, but it’s its own thing. 

 

No - Bioware "has created their own universe that is so fantastic, we're not going to change it.

 

-Pablo Hidalgo

 

So, “Legends” by default?

 

 

 

I was listening to a recent episode of Star Wars - Beyond The Films, which is a podcast co-hosted by Nathan P. Butler. He’s a long time continuity guru, and a big fan of the FFG material, particularly the RPG. So I was somewhat confused when he mentioned that he has corresponded with Pablo on the FFG canon status and was told the answer “for his own edification”, but was not allowed to repeat it. 

 

WHY?

 

Why are Lucasfilm/Pablo Hidalgo being so cagy on this topic? Do they assume that if the FFG sourcebooks start printing with the title “Legends” on them, that no-one will be interested any more? Is it to avoid some kind of perceived backlash?

 

 

Basically, it’s logically obvious that the FFG Star Wars RPG has to be Legends, as I have laid out above. So what’s the big secret?

Edited by MrDodger

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The old republic mmo is legends but it is a continuing source of legends material.

I imagine the ffg games fill the same space.

The games started before the Disney take over but now New content requires the approval of Disney, I expect the number of legends to be reduced in newer content but not eliminated all together.

Every rpg session is a unique story, without the Disney stamp of approval, and should be considered legends by definition.

Disney have no right to tell me what is or isn't star wars, how can they decide that the ewok movies are not official when they are live action SW movies written by George Lucas?

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Disney have no right to tell me what is or isn't star wars, how can they decide that the ewok movies are not official when they are live action SW movies written by George Lucas?

Because they own it and he doesn't, is the concise accurate answer.

 

I don't know how people constantly get spun up over this stuff in regards to RPGing, since we are all making our own story as we go.  These decisions have no bearing on what unfolds at everyone's table.  I don't care what the court of nerd or story group or whomever says about the Han Solo trilogy, there will always be a Corporate Sector at my table.

 

The simple fact people do get spun up should be answer enough why they don't divulge things willy nilly ahead of time.

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Who knows. I'm sure there's some variety of marketing/business decisions behind it, probably not far from the whole "Disney characters can't interact with each other, UNLESS" thing. Just weird little ways of trying to preserve brands and IPs under certain conditions.

 

It really doesn't matter because we all know much, if not all, the stuff from FFG is Legends already, particularly since they tend to be relatively open-ended games with minimal story tying them down, so we don't really need to see "Legends" banner tossed on every single product.

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The game has plenty of Legends references, so it can't be canon.  Heck, they'd have to change the entire Move power if they wanted to canonize the rules, and drop any references to anything before the Rule of Two and "hasn't been a full scale war for a millennium".

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It's a game. It's not part of the canon and it's not Legends as such either. I doubt any other medium will reference original stories FFG releases as adventures. It's "below" Legends, it doesn't qualify as any other thing than a game that can draw on both Canon and Legend material to let fans and gamers create their own stories in their own version of the Star Wars Galaxy. It makes no meaning to question whether it's canon or legends, it's neither. It's a story telling device. It doesn't in itself tell a story as such, it gives you ideas and a basis on which to base your own stories.

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Doesn't the Legends banner just go on works of narrative fiction published prior to the formation of the story group?

That's what I'm thinking. It's a branding subcompartment identifying a specific product set that happens to be noncanon, but it's not an actual continuity identifier.

 

The RPG isn't legends because it's not part of the Legends storyset, it just happens to contain it because the Legends storyset hadn't been.... legended at the time of RPG development

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Yes. Games aren't included in that because they're just games, not stories. I mean, I don't expect the Hound's Tooth miniature coming up for X-Wing to have a 'Legends' banner on it, because it's just a game piece. If every Star Wars thing was either Legends or canon, then your new Star Wars Monopoly and your new stuffed Chewbacca might have banners as well.

Edited by I. J. Thompson

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Are FFG likely to change things already printed to fall within the Canon now?

 

EG: Kessel in the books its described as it is in Legends, but Kessel in Canon is now a full planet, not an asteroid.

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I imagine new FFG Star Wars content will pull from the new canon where appropriate, in the same way the new canon pulls from Legends where appropriate. For instance, assuming they still have the licence I'd be stunned if we don't see Episode VII+ content from FFG over the next few years.

But yeah, I don't really care about what's canon and what isn't when it comes to RPGs. Did some variation of Jewel of Yavin happen in the new canon? Most likely not, but if it did, would it change anything about the adventure? Nah.

I like that stuff like SWTOR isn't canon now as it presumably frees it up to do whatever it likes, regardless of what any new content says. Presumably it's the same deal for FFG stuff. It'd be really silly and pointless if, for instance, FFG pitched an adventure idea only to be told "No sorry you can't do that it would potentially conflict with a line of dialogue from Rebels Season 2. You have to change the story" Like, who would even benefit from that?

Another example is Force and Destiny. If the beginner box and adventures had to be canon then would Disney just declare it unpublishable because it introduces Force users that don't gel with their overall plan? Trying to mix canon and RPGs just limits what can be published so I'm happy to just sweep the canon question under the rug and focus on the fun.

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Ffg were prevented from using carnor jax as a bad guy in imperial assault, they had to rename the character royal guard champion.

I imagine the same would apply if they tried to use the character in the rpg.

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Ffg were prevented from using carnor jax as a bad guy in imperial assault, they had to rename the character royal guard champion.

I imagine the same would apply if they tried to use the character in the rpg.

Were they prevented, or did they just choose not to?

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The character was called carnor jax in the beta version, there are photos to prove that, but was renamed for the release version.

There are threads on the IA forum covering this.

There were prevented but it's not been confirmed who did the preventing.

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I think it's a bit silly trying to determine if FFG's RPG is Legends or not.  It's just a game.  It has little contribution to actual ongoing storylines (due to the absence of an actual storyline) and if there is anything in the game that LFL has decided not to include in the New Canon, it's not going to affect anything.

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Hi people!

 

A bit off-topic but, what powers do you consider that are 100% canon? I've tried to put a scene on each power to see if its canon or not. What do you think?

 

- Battle Meditation: Not a clear sample. Maybe Jedi "inspiration"?

- Bind: Typical Grip that we see from Vader/Ani.

- Enhance: Tons of "leap" and "jedi reflexes" scenes.

- Foresee: Jedi Council, Luke, Anakin.

- Heal/Harm: Talzin "dark magiks" regenerations and voodoo.

- Influence: Typical "Mind Trick".

- Misdirect: Again "Darkmagicks", maybe some uses on Mortis and maybe the 5 Priestesses tricks on Yoda too.

- Move: Tons of telekinetic scenes.

- Protect/Unleash: Yoda, Palpatine, Talzin.

- Seek: Probably what Yoda uses against visions from priestesses.

- Sense: Some "I sense a presence" moments.

 

So, after the analysis, seems that the only non-canon power is Battle Meditation? Personally it reminds me the Bastila's Kotor power, but, maybe I miss something. Its well known that Jedi are great generals because they have the vision of the Force and they are also trained in tactics on the temple. Also they can connect easily with their troops and maybe "empower" them but, is this just poetic rethoric or they use a power like Battle Meditation?

 

Take care :D

Edited by Josep Maria

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Does it matter? Will it stop you (grand you) from using whatever you want in your game? Does the game's canon or legendary status really affect anything at all? Die hard canon junkies can play the game they want and legendary fans can play the game they want. That is all that matters. That it encompasses as much of the fans as possible and I think the game does.

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Obi Wan's trick with the stormtroopers on the Death Star ("What was that?"), may qualify as misdirect. I'm not certain of Seek. Maybe Luke used it to find Cloud City (I don't recall Yoda telling him about Bespin).

Edited by kaosoe

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Nothing matters, canon or legends, but it's just a choice. As I said sometimes I use to use elements from videogames or other movies (Megaman, Chrono Cross, Mass Effect), but this isn't incompatible about knowing the actual canon. I asked because at forums there use to be trully experts about SW universe. I'm just looking for some guidance.

 

I use to say that it's almost IMPOSSIBLE play a roleplaygame just with canon, you will need tons of material to recreate a fully alive universe but I like to respect the creators essence as much as I can. I'm aware that it's my choice, and if I don't like something I can change it, I'm not a canon slave XD. By the way, thank you so much ;) I remember that in my first D6 sessions Vader was capable to stop Death Star shots just with his hands just suffering some damage XD

 

Kaosoe, I have some problems visualizing the difference between Influence and Misdirect or Seek and Sense. Any tip?

Edited by Josep Maria

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Influence is internal. It's making person feel something. Whether a lie is really the truth, or have them be open to emotion. Misdirect is external. It's about tricking the 5 senses by making them sense things that aren't there. They both affect the mind, but to different ends.

 

The divide between seek and sense is more blurred, I trust others on the boards can explain things better than I can. One application of Seek (the ability to hunt down targets using the force to guide them) is easier to distinguish versus Sense. That's what I was referencing when I mentioned Luke could have used it to find Cloud city (though likely that's just a GM handwave). I picture Sense to be general and wide-sweeping. "I'm using sense to feel my surroundings", and seek could be more focused. "I'm using seek to determine if Darth Maul is in this city".

 

Have I mentioned I'm terrible at explaining things?

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