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Olifant

A few questions about Fire Shield

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pg. 206 for reference

 

One of the group Psykers just took this talent and raised some questions on it. Which honestly I myself are unsure of. 

 

He is arguing that each attack made sends back a firebolt. His implication is to extrapolate that if a full auto weapon were fired upon him, let us say 4 successful shots, his character would send 4 firebolts back. I think, however the wording implies any successful attack; meaning a single bolt for the attack action, be it 1 bullet or 4. But this would also include two-handed attacks, such as if two melee weapons were swung, or two separate range attacks from the same source, would then both receive a bolt. One for each action, not for each DOS.

 

Also, the wording say immediately takes damage. Does this act like a reaction turn interruption so the offending party cannot dodge? Or does this simply imply after the attacker finishing his rolls, then the firebolts immediately strike, and would then give the attacker a chance to dodge the incoming retaliatory fire?

 

At first I did not think much of it but once I began to think about all the ways this was broken, I became usure. Such as unavoided, no dodge, automatic damage not reduced by toughness or armor at PR cast could insta kill everything shy of Daemons and Monstrous Creatures if they got a good hit in.

 

Secondly if a barrage of bullets leads to a barrage of firebolts, they would each give a chance to catch fire, effectively ensuring that whatever attacked would die, and if it did not outright die, would cause them to catch fire and probably die next turn.

 

 

*A couple things to note, it does say it is a pyshic bolt, not a barrage or storm. Also why would degrees of success be important here? The ability says DOS count based on the focus test.I couldn't think of anything off the top of my head unless it were to be the effect how many firebolt were sent back.

The retaliatory fire does PR dmg and has the flame trait.

Edited by Olifant

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pg. 206 for reference

 

One of the group Psykers just took this talent and raised some questions on it. Which honestly I myself are unsure of. 

 

He is arguing that each attack made sends back a firebolt. His implication is to extrapolate that if a full auto weapon were fired upon him, let us say 4 successful shots, his character would send 4 firebolts back. I think, however the wording implies any successful attack; meaning a single bolt for the attack action, be it 1 bullet or 4. But this would also include two-handed attacks, such as if two melee weapons were swung, or two separate range attacks from the same source, would then both receive a bolt. One for each action, not for each DOS.

 

 

Standard Attack, Swift Attack, Lightning Attack, Semi-Auto Burst, Full Auto Burst, are all considered to be exactly 1 Attack, albeit you can possibly hit your target multiple times.

 

Page 218:

"Characters can only take one action with the Attack subtype 
and one action with the Concentration subtype during their turn. "
 
 
 

pg. 206 for reference

Also, the wording say immediately takes damage. Does this act like a reaction turn interruption so the offending party cannot dodge? Or does this simply imply after the attacker finishing his rolls, then the firebolts immediately strike, and would then give the attacker a chance to dodge the incoming retaliatory fire?

 

At first I did not think much of it but once I began to think about all the ways this was broken, I became usure. Such as unavoided, no dodge, automatic damage not reduced by toughness or armor at PR cast could insta kill everything shy of Daemons and Monstrous Creatures if they got a good hit in.

 

Secondly if a barrage of bullets leads to a barrage of firebolts, they would each give a chance to catch fire, effectively ensuring that whatever attacked would kill, and if it did not outright kill, would cause them to catch fire.

 

 

Yes, it seems like this will be non-avoidable damage. In normal circumstances, people won't be able to use any Evasion actions anyway since those can't be used during their own turns, but you have those rarer circumstances when a characters performs an attack outside their own turn, such as during a Delay action or Overwatch. In these cases, they still won't be able to evade.

 

*A couple things to note, it does say it is a pyshic bolt, not a barrage or storm. Also why would degrees of success be important here? The ability says DOS count based on the focus test.I couldn't think of anything off the top of my head unless it were to be the effect how many firebolt were sent back.

The retaliatory fire does PR dmg and has the flame trait.

 

I think the DoS have been added just in case. Like the bolt damage can't be reduced by Armour or Toughness, but perhaps there is something else that counters the damage and based on DoS.

 

Edited by Gridash

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What are your thoughts on dual weapon using? Lets say, the attacker had all the dual weapon talents and used two lightning attacks. Technically the book allows this talent by saying they are one attack rolled separately, but I feel, since the ability says for each successfull attack, that if both actions passed their dice test, the attacker would receive two bolts? Or just one? I feel it would be two. Agree disagree?

 

Also, you just made me think of another complication. What about shields? Refractors and the like, my instinct would be those would still possibly block it.

Edited by Olifant

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Refractor shields are a non-action, so they would still work.  DoS is calculated for the purpose of odd things like the Assassin Role ability, that could spend a fate point to add DoS to damage on this attack.

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Considering it has the flame rule, i might argue against making multiple hits cause multiple procs of fire shield as you get repeated rolls to set the enemy on fire. On the flip side, if the player chooses to dodge or parry the attack, or if its absorbed by a force field of some sort, i would argue that flame shield does not activate if you successfully negate the attack.

 

that said, if your psycher is taking multiple hits I doubt he will be able to stay alive very long unless he has very strong armor. Having multiple fire shield procs probably will kill the attacker at about the same speed as the NPC kills the psycher, so it might not matter too much in the end, as you would probably have both a dying psycher and a dead NPC. Also hopefully your NPCs are smart enough to not repeatedly smack or shoot a psycher wreathed in flame like that.

Edited by BillMcDonagh

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