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Torresse

FFG knock off dice...

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So a recent kickstarter currently has me a little upset that someone would create 3rd party dice for Xwing for a number of reasons. I am pretty sure FFG will send a cease and desist order due to the fact that it is called Star Wars - X-Wing Game - Transparent Dice

 

 

1. This directly competes with FFG. The symbols aren't unique, and its something that ffg sells individual products for. Granted, they dont sell the transparent dice, but they do sell dice packs. Third party tokens with the same eyeball or evade symbol I dont mind, its something that doesn't directly competes with ffg and doesn't affect gameplay (like the startrek bases, or attack wing templates).
 

2. I also foresee this as a problem with integrity. We can all trust one companies regulations to be made and weighted. But what would stop this company or another company from applying different standards -or no standards-? We all expect the dice to have a quality control at FFG (which has not yet caused any major problems).

 

 

3. The dice unlike templates will not be easy to test for every Joe to determine if they hold some sort of advantage.

4. The absolute biggest problem I have with this is the distribution of symbols. With practice you could get used to consistently rolling a die with only one half of it's symbols appearing. Judging by the top red die in the picture, they have four symbols all grouped in one corner. If you pick any point on an ffg attack die, you will have a blank, focus, hit, hit(or crit).

 

photo-original.png?v=1432002587&w=1024&h

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This isn't any different than any other game that uses dice. 

 

Integrity is a problem with ANY game that uses dice not specifically made by the game company. Warmachine, 40K, etc.  Having problems with dice integrity rarely comes up.  This is almost a null problem.  The idea of having loaded dice is bad but how often does it really happen?  You know, a simple solution to this is just to have both sides play with the same set of dice.

 

I'm not sure why you're really upset by this. 

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1. FFG declares only FFG dice can be used in tournaments.

 

Already the case. Has been since the start. Intended to stop people rigging dice.

 

While that is probably true, I also think it's a marketing tactic. Their dice are stupid expensive.

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Tournament rules already disallow 3rd party dice. They explicitly state which components are allowed to be 3rd party with all others having to be official ffg products.

These dice are illegal in organized play.

Akin to using a 3rd party dice app.

Waste of money in my mind.

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Third party templates have been around for years.

I have no problems with people using 3rd party templates

Then what makes the dice different? A third party could make a template the lists too much in a direction might be a smidgin longer...these are just as possible as a third party company making loaded dice...which wouldn't be sound for a dice maker who wants to sell volumes of his dice...these already can't be used in official events...so please explain why one is allowed but not the other?

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Third party templates have been around for years.

I have no problems with people using 3rd party templates

Then what makes the dice different? A third party could make a template the lists too much in a direction might be a smidgin longer...these are just as possible as a third party company making loaded dice...which wouldn't be sound for a dice maker who wants to sell volumes of his dice...these already can't be used in official events...so please explain why one is allowed but not the other?

 

I see attack wing bases used all the time in official events. If I am at an official event, then I have to be a jerk to ask them to replace their bases or be disqualified. Third party tokens were the first thing that was used against FFG's official rules, but people had them during the Kessal Run. People had templates shortly after (which was still against ffg's rules) but they were still used. Will these dice make their way to regionals? well maybe if they make their way past the kickstarter (FFG will have to shut them down to protect intellectual properties), but there will still be people who dont know not to bring them, and more who will get offended by asking them to not use them.

 

 

Also You can test templates very easily by lining them up with another template (magicians use this technique to find their tapered deck of cards)

Edited by Torresse

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You can check template very easily, literally hold them next to a standard template. Checking the mass distribution in a die is somewhat more complex.

 

Third party tokens and templates are one thing: tokens grant no advantage and templates are very easily checked. Dice... well, let's just say the ruling on dice isn't with an aim to increasing sales.

Edited by TIE Pilot

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True...but the point still stands.

I still don't see why the dice are so different...having to remind someone at a high level tourney to only use ffg stuff isn't being a jerk. The person bringing the dice is being a jerk by putting you in that position...as long as they aren't bringing these to official events I don't see the big deal. A dice maker won't make much by selling loaded dice as, from what I have seen on this site most xwing players are honest people...that's the vibe I get. These dice aren't available to the general public...if ffg makes them widely available I'll have a problem with this, but until that time all this hand wringing and pearl clutching is really just that...nothing.

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nothing wrong with making 3rd party dice 

but they are not legal? 
boo bloody hoo 

you want dice that are 'legal'  

ok goto ebay and spend $185 for 12 dice 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/X-wing-Miniatures-Game-2014-Regional-clear-Dice-a-set-of-12-/141673961190?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20fc6d16e6
or $155 for 6 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Star-Wars-X-Wing-Miniatures-Game-FFG-Translucent-Dice-2014-Regionals-RARE-/191580836344?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2c9b1b91f8

These are the people you should be bitching about 
 

complaining about this when 3rd party templates tokens etc have been around for ages is just moronic 
 

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There was a thread a while back about someone who put his official FFG dice through some kind of medical scanner.

Turns out, they've got air bubbles.

Guess what you don't have in transparent dice?

Air bubbles.

Therefore these knock-off dice should be MORE standardised than the official FFG ones, which have random air bubbles inside them.

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It's not like they are trying to pass these off as official dice, they've used different symbols so it's easy to tell they Arnt the prize dice.

And yeah if these have no air bubbles they are likely to be more fair than the official dice and before being transparent you can see they Arnt weighted.

These won't detract from the value of real prize dice.

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Third party templates have been around for years.

I have no problems with people using 3rd party templates
Then what makes the dice different? A third party could make a template the lists too much in a direction might be a smidgin longer...these are just as possible as a third party company making loaded dice...which wouldn't be sound for a dice maker who wants to sell volumes of his dice...these already can't be used in official events...so please explain why one is allowed but not the other?
I can test templates instantly. We've had more than one person show up with Attack Wing(not the same, by the way) templates and have to be reminded not to do that again.

There is no quick way to test dice.

Edited by TasteTheRainbow

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Guess what you don't have in transparent dice?Air bubbles.

Have you seen the official FFG transparent dice from last year's Regionals?

They are transparent and they do have airbubbles.

All the more reason to use a precision product from a third party rather than a shoddy product from FFG, even if it is official.

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nothing wrong with making 3rd party dice 

but they are not legal? 

boo bloody hoo 

you want dice that are 'legal'  

ok goto ebay and spend $185 for 12 dice 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/X-wing-Miniatures-Game-2014-Regional-clear-Dice-a-set-of-12-/141673961190?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20fc6d16e6

or $155 for 6 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Star-Wars-X-Wing-Miniatures-Game-FFG-Translucent-Dice-2014-Regionals-RARE-/191580836344?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2c9b1b91f8

These are the people you should be bitching about 

 

complaining about this when 3rd party templates tokens etc have been around for ages is just moronic 

 

Or, you know, just 5.49$ for the official ones. They are legal too and don't cost 150$+... 

 

http://www.miniaturemarket.com/catalog/product/view/id/25945/s/ffgswx10/

 

An acrylic token can't give an advantage; an acrylic template can be measured on the fly if you have a doubt; third party dice have no way to be tested before a game if they are balanced or not. That's the distinction. Tokens, templates and ruler get worn up with time, not dice. FFG don't sells individual Acrylic tokens or templates, they do sell dice pack.

 

So, if we allow 3rd party tokens, templates and now dice, where is the line? Would it be possible to have third party damage deck, I would love one with my faction symbol on the back. Should proxy of upgrades start to be allowed? Heck, why bother with cards, just bring your team printed on a sheet and save the time of the setup.

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Oh, lighten up Francis.

If someone wants to buy some custom transparent dice for casual games, why should we care?

Nobody argue about their usage in casual games. But some are worried that they might eventually crawl up into official tournaments.

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nothing wrong with making 3rd party dice 

but they are not legal? 

boo bloody hoo 

you want dice that are 'legal'  

ok goto ebay and spend $185 for 12 dice 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/X-wing-Miniatures-Game-2014-Regional-clear-Dice-a-set-of-12-/141673961190?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20fc6d16e6

or $155 for 6 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Star-Wars-X-Wing-Miniatures-Game-FFG-Translucent-Dice-2014-Regionals-RARE-/191580836344?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2c9b1b91f8

These are the people you should be bitching about 

 

complaining about this when 3rd party templates tokens etc have been around for ages is just moronic 

 

 

And how would you explain people spending over 200$ for alt art darth vader or lando? Might as well print them or whatever. 

 

The term you dont seem to understand is "collectibles". These dice are not mass produced. They were only given to top 8 at regionals. Good luck finding them and acquiring them if you havent already. 

Why the heck should we ***** about people selling them? 

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