Are Squadrons worth it?

[Payens81 10]

I have been reading the forums on strategies and played a few full games with just the core sets do not have Wave 1 yet.  I am wondering if Squadrons are worth the points it over capital ships. I thought that the power of the Rebels were in the Squadrons the X-wings having the bomber ability but I have been having some issues.  

 

When I create my fleets I max out my squadron points then fill the rest in with the bigger ships, specially with the Rebels.

 

This is what I have noticed since squadrons either move or attack on their turn it is hard to have them just in the right position to shoot the capital ships.  You can try to anticipate where the capital ship is going to be but then then they will see where the squadrons are and try to move away from them. 

 

You can use the squadron command but then you need to be at the just the right ranges of your ship being in range of your squadrons to be able to move them and attack the enemies capital ships and not have your ships get roasted by the other ships bigger guns. And keep that up for multiple turns to make them effective. 

 

Am I missing something? Is it better just to go with the capital ships and put the squadrons in to fill our your points or max out your squadrons.?

Edited May 22, 2015 by Payens81

[jekara 83]

In all the games I've played, squadrons (rebel ones, specifically) are essential.  They ensure enemy fighters are held back and, if unchecked, can dish out some REAL damage to capital ships.  I played a list last night with only 3 fighter groups and it was perfect.  2 Nebulon B Escorts decimated the enemy fighters that couldn't move because of Luke, Tycho, and a single A-wing.  Then I could activate Luke twice (dealing a crit and a hit vs a VSD) because of Flight Controllers and one of the officers (Adar Tallon, I think).

 

Squadrons MUST fit your capital ship goals, though.  If not, they are just wasted points. :/

[ficklegreendice 34,362]

Depends

For the empire, there is so far no better source of long range anti-ship damage than rhymer bombers.

For rebs, bwings are an unholy close range terror.

Against either, antiship batteries aren't enough by themselves.

Though it's impossible to get a set standard this early in the game's life cycle, I can say that bombers are pretty incredible.

If you want to go the full 100 in squadrons, it'll work (as long as you can also fight other squadrons).

The less squadrons you have from 100, the more Antisquadron they better be.

[Daner0023 112]

You need to make a few decisions in list building:

What are you trying to accomplish with your Squadrons?

a) Are they designed to protect your Ships?

b) Are they supposed to damage enemy ships?

c) Are you going to support them with Carrier-Type Ships or do you intend to run Gunboats or some combination?

d) Are you planning to support your Squadron's by dedicating Ship fire to damage or to finish off enemy Squadrons? Are your ships good at anti-Squadron fire? Are you willing to Activate your Squadrons?

Answer these questions in list building and then play test different Objectives and you will find a mix that works for you.

Edited May 25, 2015 by Daner0023

[Forgottenlore 9,838]

I actually find it to be the opposite of the OP. Squadrons are SOOO good that I feel I have to take the full allotment just to have a chance against enemy squadrons, and that doesn't leave enough points to buy the rest of the fleet.

[ficklegreendice 34,362]

i don't know about full allotment either

 

as of wave 1, I believe the two most powerful squadron related upgrades are Rebel's Haven and Empire's Howl + Flight Controller Interceptors

 

both seem capable of catapulting your squadrons to performances far beyond their points allotment

 

anti-squadron armaments will also support a slightly smaller squadron allotment, especially against 3 health ties

 

rather than feel I only have 200 points to work with for ships, I feel quite comfortable around 220

[Amanal 2,557]

In general my games seem to (in a very broad sense) go along the lines of:

• The initial engagement where the two fleets move towards each other and then start shooting.
• The main engagement, where the ships try to get to their optimal range and get a shot off.
• The "fly by" where the ships pass each other and get some parting shots.
• Then the return to the engagement, where the ships start heading back to get a second try at each others.

Fighters and Bombers allow damage to be dealt during the phases of this where damage is slow and you can spare a command to be spend on Squadrons.

 

So during the initial stage you could deal some damage to a ship, and each point you do there is a point not needed as you start shooting in earnest. Then as you return to engagement they can put some damage through a downed dhield and maybe finish off a heavily damaged ship.

[Reiryc 619]

In general my games seem to (in a very broad sense) go along the lines of:

• The initial engagement where the two fleets move towards each other and then start shooting.
• The main engagement, where the ships try to get to their optimal range and get a shot off.
• The "fly by" where the ships pass each other and get some parting shots.
• Then the return to the engagement, where the ships start heading back to get a second try at each others.

Fighters and Bombers allow damage to be dealt during the phases of this where damage is slow and you can spare a command to be spend on Squadrons.

 

So during the initial stage you could deal some damage to a ship, and each point you do there is a point not needed as you start shooting in earnest. Then as you return to engagement they can put some damage through a downed dhield and maybe finish off a heavily damaged ship.

I have found the same thing to be generally happening, but with the caveat that when the squadrons are still locked up in the middle fighting, the ships are out of range to hand out the squadron command since it's on,y effective at short to medium range from the ship using the command dial.

[Amanal 2,557]

Wouldn't there be some advantage for the player launching the attack to try and fly further ahead of his ships?

[CobaltWraith 229]

To answer the question posed by the thread title, I personally haven't found squadrons to be worth bringing even though I bought two packs for each side. I've been experimenting with a lot of ship only builds over the last two weeks. So far the best I've found is:

 

1-VSD-II

-Tarkin

-Defense Liaison

-Leading Shots

-XX-9 Turbolasers

-Dominator

 

2-Galdiator-II

-Defense Liaison

-Engine Techs

 

3-Galdiator-II

-Defense Liaison

-Engine Techs

 

-Opening Salvo

-Contested Outpost

-Intel Sweep

---------------

293 Points

 

   Tarkin turns those Gladiators into mean little puppies even without the upgrades, mostly because I've managed to make them absolutely dance each game. Handing out Maneuver tokens starting the 3rd turn allows them to keep using their engine techs for crazy turns, and the defense liaisons allow them to sacrifice that token when not needed for an engineering dial instead. Engine techs also allow a unique situation in which if needed each gladiator can ram an opposing ship twice in the same turn, a strategy I've utilized several times. My favorite thus far I lined a both gladiators up in the front arch of a decked out AF-II B w/Gallant Haven supported by a loaded Nebulon-B with Yavaris, and opponent running an absolutely killer bomber setup. I had initiative with us playing opening Salvo. I managed to unload on the AF after being nearly mulched by his fighters leaving me with no shields, but still ram him twice leaving one health on my ship, and also leaving the other Gladiator covered by his limping buddy in front. My opponent then played his Neb-B which fired at the other Gladiator, followed by my Vic-II getting a roll for 8 damage on his side arc and locking up both Brace tokens. Combined with the XX-9 card he was dead, so my opponent activates his AF and focuses on my Gladiator, narrowly leaving him alive, but then ramming and killing my first gladiator which was still in the way. I activate the second gladiator, deal no damage, but set myself up for the next round where I activate first, hit him with a forward and side arc and blow up my opponents second and last ship on the first activation of round four.

   Apologies for my long winded summary. What I'm getting at though is that even with a great bomber screen activating twice no less in some cases due to both Yavaris and Adar Tallon, a fast all capital ship build can wipe the field pretty fast. In the 9 rounds I've played so far with no squadrons trying to refine this build, in 5 of them I have won by 10  points (so 151+ ship points), in 2 of them I have lost by 10 points, and in the last 2 I won by 4 and 6 points. Percentage wise that's not bad, and for the most part I seem to win or lose totally within the first 4 rounds.

   My weaknesses are a drawn out game giving my opponents fighters more time to do their jobs, and also losing a ship within the first three rounds. My entire strategy is to maintain such total capital ship supremacy that the nearly 100 points of fighter my opponents brought are completely useless, and I seldom even waste time shooting at them.

   I have yet to encounter another build like mine, but I intend to run a test battle against myself this week in preparation for a local tournament pitting myself against 3 VSD-I's with Screed and another against a rebel equivalent to see how I fare. If there is any interest I'd be happy to let you know how both those and the tournament goes.

Edited May 26, 2015 by CobaltWraith

[kinnison 850]

I really have not played enough to tell.

 

But i think for Rebels it is.  Empire, less so.

 

In most of my games with both sides having fighters, one side ends up losing all their fighters, while the other might lose 60% or less.  In one game i could have destroyed his fighters (13 points vs 95), avoided ship combat, and won.

[ficklegreendice 34,362]

interesting

 

playing double fatties have given me the opposite impression

 

given how easily fatties circle-strafe VSDs and leave poor GSDs isolated, the empire seems far more dependent on its squadrons than the rebels from my point of view. Without rhymer + bombers, they simply lack the long range firepower to acomplish anything including a profitable suicide-run from the gladiator. Those 3-4 damage add up really quickly.

 

In order to protect those bombers, they of course need other squadrons (mainly seen interceptors) because VSDs are hilariously inept at killing squadrons and GSD-IIs don't seem at all efficient at the 300 point level since rebel squadrons tend to be very chuncky anyway. 

 

having had very little issue downing star destroyers of either size with fatties, it is often the squadrons that mark the difference between victory and defeat in my games against the empire.

[Green Knight 9,746]

I have been reading the forums on strategies and played a few full games with just the core sets do not have Wave 1 yet.  I am wondering if Squadrons are worth the points it over capital ships. I thought that the power of the Rebels were in the Squadrons the X-wings having the bomber ability but I have been having some issues.  

 

When I create my fleets I max out my squadron points then fill the rest in with the bigger ships, specially with the Rebels.

 

This is what I have noticed since squadrons either move or attack on their turn it is hard to have them just in the right position to shoot the capital ships.  You can try to anticipate where the capital ship is going to be but then then they will see where the squadrons are and try to move away from them. 

 

You can use the squadron command but then you need to be at the just the right ranges of your ship being in range of your squadrons to be able to move them and attack the enemies capital ships and not have your ships get roasted by the other ships bigger guns. And keep that up for multiple turns to make them effective. 

 

Am I missing something? Is it better just to go with the capital ships and put the squadrons in to fill our your points or max out your squadrons.?

 

You're missing something

 

I would suggest that you start by getting rid of you commen sense - because it makes NO sense* that squadrons can't both move and attack on their own in the squadron phase.

 

* in one particular game I had 4 X-wings sitting real close in the rear arc of a VSD - but their controlling Nebulon had unfortunately gone out of command range, so they could pursue the VSD, but not shoot at it. That felt really lame, but that's how it works.

 

Once that common sense is gone you can start planning for an actual game...thus far, as an Imperial player, I've been focusing on screening my ships against rebel bomber attacks and letting the VSDs do the killing. But with the arrival of the Assault Frigate that doens't seem such a viable option anymore. As the rebel I've been using X-wings with Nebulons to clear out Imperial TIEs and then use squadron commands to bomb the VSDs once the Nebulons have flanked them. I'm very exited about trying out different squadron mixes.

[Supernaught 4]

I have seen squadrons to be pivotal, but I think the beauty of this game thus far is that you aren't locked into that by any means. Just as you can run 4 small ships and no squads or run two big with several, both are reasonable builds!

 

Yesterday I was running Rebs and had dished out some solid damage to a Vic, and my 4 Xs had cleaned out his fighters and had their bombs trained on it. And they did the 3 damage to do it in pretty handily.

 

Just depends on playstyle. So far, I have seen squads wreck stuff, so I prioritize trying to clear out what I can before I take mine in, and use them as supplimentals from there on out.