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ficklegreendice

Jamming Phantoms?

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Hey guys,

so looking at the regionals lists reinforced the notion that turrets are still the list to beat, but also that we're seeing a lot of variety emerge in the top 8 slots

one particular pattern I noticed in certain small ship aces (especially Corran, Soontir, and Xizor) is that they seem to be kit out to rival fat Han i.t.o damage cancelation

Fat Han: C3po + Evade = 2 canceled damage a round

Corran: R2-D2 regen + Evade = 2 canceled damage a round

Soontir: Auto-thrusters + Evade = potentially 2+ canceled damage a round

Xizor: ability + auto-thrusters = potentially 2+ canceled (shunted) damage a round

Aggressors: evade + auto-thrusters = potentially 2+canceled damage a round

and so on

this got me thinking that these kinds of pilots might make a far more reliable counter to fat turrets and especially 2 ship turrets than the traditional tie swarm (though I don't think we thank de-throne BBBBZ) because the amount of damage they cancel makes it difficult for lists with a maximum of 2 attacks to down them. Of course, when playing against unavoidable primary weapon turrets in general, it helps to guarantee damage cancellation instead of relying on you know what <_<

So here's the premise of this thread: Sensor Jammer may possibly find a more defined niche as an upgrade that gets you to two canceled damage especially on the phantom (dat evade) (or on the aggressor, but that might get excessive). The potential becomes greater when you consider that Whisper (sensor, ACD, V.I), 35 point Soontir, and perhaps a doom shuttle all fit into the same list; giving you two aces with potential 2 damage cancellation + some bulk in the third ship (no bid, though).

Of course, Jammers' ability is easily canceled out (especially by chiraneau) so I would rather default to peoples' experiences with the upgrade. For those of you who have used sensors, do you think they could bring Phantoms to or near the level of Soonts against fat turrets?

There is, of course, the problem that SJ phantoms with VI can't modify their offense like all of the above ships without spending a hefty fee for gunner to be considered too. Perhaps it would be more effective to combine jammers with spa's free evade (sigma jammer + ia + spa = 32 points)

Edited by ficklegreendice

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Back in Wave 4, I won a tournament with a Shuttle, Soontir, and Whisper build.  Whisper had VI, Sensor Jammer, Rebel Captive and ACD.  I had one match versus Han.  Sensor Jammer works VERY well versus Han/Predator/Gunner/FCS/Corran Double Tap etc.  It will also work against Chirneau if he rolls one or more focuses (he can only turn one focus to a crit).

 

I also recently faced an Autothruster, Sensor Jammer IG-B with a 4Z swarm versus my Chewbacca and Corran.  It basically FORCED me to take focus as my action preventing the use of evade or boost.  Made Corran much less effective with his FCS double tap.  I ended up winning the match but mainly because my opponent overextended Iggy making it a 2 vs 1 match for 2-3 rounds, which was enough to take down the aggressor.

 

Sensor Jammer is definitely an effective defensive upgrade, but it is in heavy competition with FCS and Advanced Sensors.

Edited by bmf

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Sensor Jammer would certainly force your opponent to take a focus and change the action economy of the game. On a Fat Han, that would mean they either take the focus or evade.

 

For 4 points though? It is also a system upgrade, which means it would only work on some ships.

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I can personally vouch for the effectiveness of sensor jammer sigmas (with IA and SPA) in the current meta, having taken two along with Carnor Jax to the top 4 of a regional event (see my battle report here). They cancel an incredible amount of damage from any ship with gunner and/or FCS, so they're well-protected against IGs, Falcons and Corran Horn. Probably the most difficult match up is against Chiraneau, as you should only change a hit to focus if you're at R3 or if he naturally rolls a focus along with the hit you change, and if he happens to have predator then he can still reroll the die that ended up as a focus on its own.

 

That having been said, with sensor jammer it's not scary to get into a jousting situation (after the initial approach) with a swarm as you'll be rolling more attack dice and canceling your opponents' hits with SJ, arc-dodgers like Soontir are quite easy to block with the intel agents and decloak+BR options, and fat things don't like lots of dice being thrown at them, which *will* happen if you know which way they're going. Bringing Carnor Jax into the mix basically shuts down those pesky focus+evade combos on large base ships and inspires so much hate that he's almost always the first ship to be targeted, leaving the phantoms to throw lots of attack dice with impunity.

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I can personally vouch for the effectiveness of sensor jammer sigmas (with IA and SPA) in the current meta, having taken two along with Carnor Jax to the top 4 of a regional event (see my battle report here). They cancel an incredible amount of damage from any ship with gunner and/or FCS, so they're well-protected against IGs, Falcons and Corran Horn. Probably the most difficult match up is against Chiraneau, as you should only change a hit to focus if you're at R3 or if he naturally rolls a focus along with the hit you change, and if he happens to have predator then he can still reroll the die that ended up as a focus on its own.

 

That having been said, with sensor jammer it's not scary to get into a jousting situation (after the initial approach) with a swarm as you'll be rolling more attack dice and canceling your opponents' hits with SJ, arc-dodgers like Soontir are quite easy to block with the intel agents and decloak+BR options, and fat things don't like lots of dice being thrown at them, which *will* happen if you know which way they're going. Bringing Carnor Jax into the mix basically shuts down those pesky focus+evade combos on large base ships and inspires so much hate that he's almost always the first ship to be targeted, leaving the phantoms to throw lots of attack dice with impunity.

 

I was about to ask, "Why not Soontir," and then it clicked. That's amazing. Dash and Soontir especially hate this. I love it.

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going to have to add to my list of regrets:

 

did not think of two Phantoms + Carnor first :(

 

To be fair I don't think I was the first person to think of this either, but that doesn't make the list any less fun to fly. Maybe I'm the X-Wing version of an adrenaline junkie, but I love the trembles I get on that key turn before getting into shooting range knowing that any mistake on my part could make me lose any or even all of my ships in an instant if I'm not careful  :D

 

Plus that can put you at 98 points if your second mod on Carnor is stealth or hull rather than shield.

 

That's true, but the shield helped me survive a couple matches against doom shuttles as well suffer a Ten Nunb + mangler, which seems to be becoming a thing. Of course, your mileage may vary. I found that initiative isn't usually that important when using PS3 and 8, so people with PS8 pilots will either go to 100 points and anyone who cares enough to go last with a PS8 will usually use VI anyway.

Edited by darthlurker

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going to have to add to my list of regrets:

 

did not think of two Phantoms + Carnor first :(

 

To be fair I don't think I was the first person to think of this either, but that doesn't make the list any less fun to fly. Maybe I'm the X-Wing version of an adrenaline junkie, but I love the trembles I get on that key turn before getting into shooting range knowing that any mistake on my part could make me lose any or even all of my ships in an instant if I'm not careful  :D

 

Plus that can put you at 98 points if your second mod on Carnor is stealth or hull rather than shield.

 

That's true, but the shield helped me survive a couple matches against doom shuttles as well suffer a Ten Nunb + mangler, which seems to be becoming a thing. Of course, your mileage may vary. I found that initiative isn't usually that important when using PS3 and 8, so people with PS8 pilots will either go to 100 points and anyone who cares enough to go last with a PS8 will usually use VI anyway.

 

 

You're absolutely right, except for facing Fett+88 or Predator+Sensors Corran. Neither of those are as constant as PS9 jerks. Fair point.

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You're absolutely right, except for facing Fett+88 or Predator+Sensors Corran. Neither of those are as constant as PS9 jerks. Fair point.

 

All I meant was that I've never encountered an opponent that was taking Ten Nunb, RAC, Boba Fett or Corran Horn and simultaneously didn't have VI and yet saved a couple of points for initiative, though maybe your local meta is different.

Edited by darthlurker

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You're absolutely right, except for facing Fett+88 or Predator+Sensors Corran. Neither of those are as constant as PS9 jerks. Fair point.

 

All I meant was that I've never encountered an opponent that was taking Ten Nunb, RAC, Boba Fett or Corran Horn and simultaneously didn't have VI and yet saved a couple of points for initiative, though maybe your local meta is different.

 

 

You're probably not far off. My local meta, no matter what they take they go for at least 99.

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I ran the above list for 15 games and considered taking it to regionals as it is a ton of fun to fly, but Soontir+Decivader, especially RAC, is a very tough matchup when facing decent players. RAC presents problems because you don't actually want to use SJ if he doesn't roll an eye and Fel typically doesn't care either thanks to having easy access to focus tokens and often multiples.

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I like Sensor Jammer on my Phantom "Can't Touch This" troll build. Sensor Jammer, Stealth Device, and Mara Jade ... just stay cloaked and fly through the middle of swarms stressing. Or if you really want to keep those points on the table, swap Rebel Captive for Mara Jade.

It isn't terribly offensive until the end game, but it's ludicrously fun.

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I ran the above list for 15 games and considered taking it to regionals as it is a ton of fun to fly, but Soontir+Decivader, especially RAC, is a very tough matchup when facing decent players. RAC presents problems because you don't actually want to use SJ if he doesn't roll an eye and Fel typically doesn't care either thanks to having easy access to focus tokens and often multiples.

I haven't had the misfortune of facing a decivader with this list yet (and though the thought terrifies me, now I want to try it), and agree that the RA can be tough to deal with, but I haven't really found Soontir to be a problem. Obviously this depends on the situation, but if the sigmas spend the first combat turn cloaked and at R2, then any ship in the list can be a baron blocker, and the others can fire on him with 7-10 focused dice, which is usually enough to bring him down. If you can't block him, sticking Carnor in the area you expect him to go (with the sigmas covering his flanks) is also incredibly handy at making him spend his actions to get away, often losing his shot and/or saving the focus for defense.

 

Out of curiosity, what did you end up taking to regionals?

 

I like Sensor Jammer on my Phantom "Can't Touch This" troll build. Sensor Jammer, Stealth Device, and Mara Jade ... just stay cloaked and fly through the middle of swarms stressing. Or if you really want to keep those points on the table, swap Rebel Captive for Mara Jade.

It isn't terribly offensive until the end game, but it's ludicrously fun.

 

By any chance, did your troll build also have Dark Curse with a stealth device? Because that ship is single-handedly the most annoying thing I have ever encountered, and it would probably work well with Carnor and Mara Jade on a sigma XD

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Everytime I tried to play 86 Double Phantom with Sensor Jammer & Rebel Captive Echo, what happened was that my opponent just happened to be flying Kyle Katarn crew or the RAC.

Same thing happened when I flew Rhymer with APT's, I faced someone who played Carnor Jax. Or when I make a 4 bomber and 4x Proton Bomb list and my opponent is flying double 2400.

It would be nice if I could fly wacky things that are actually somewhat powerful and not happen to face the one ship/upgrade in the game that hard counters them, lol.

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By any chance, did your troll build also have Dark Curse with a stealth device? Because that ship is single-handedly the most annoying thing I have ever encountered, and it would probably work well with Carnor and Mara Jade on a sigma XD

No, but I admit to considering running Dark Curse with a stealth device :)

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