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Darth evil

Missed opportunity with the VSD

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Or the fact that all expanded universe outside the six soon to be seven films, clone wars( animated series) and SW: Rebels is no longer Disney approved cannon.

 

 

Says who? And why should we care. For me the new films have to prove as Star Wars first... the new Star Trek films failed to be Star Trek in my eyes for example.

 

Says the people who actually control the Star Wars IP.

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Says the people who actually control the Star Wars IP.

Yeah, some people don't really seem to understand what Canon and IP actually is. For an entity like FFG, which is subject to IP laws and contracts, they very much care what Disney/LFL says is or isn't canon.

Because if Disney/LFL says 'you can't do that because that's not canon' then FFG has no choice in the matter, unless they want to give up their access to the IP.

So if you're writing fanfic, do whatever you want, but if you're going to make something professional then you have no choice but to abide by what the story group says is canon.

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Ohh nice info, thanks.

 

 

Anyways, what do people think about the Vong?

I never liked the concept, seemed like it belonged in another universe.

 

I would be up for a remake of the Thrawn books, but not a straight up adaptation of them.

 

I hated the Vong. When they came along everybody was hopping on the biotechnological bad-guy bandwagon. Curiously, they came along well after GW's Tyranids (who are the best biotechnological bad-guy IMHO because of their sheer thematic scale; they eat your planet) and they felt to me like a pale shadow of their success. I thought the Vong were a weak cash-in on the new fad. Not to mention that they were like cenobites. It's like somebody read about the Tyranids and read way too much Clive Barker, and had a "bright idea" to fuse the two at the hip...badly. And they felt way out of place in Star Wars where the themes aren't as grim-dark.

Edited by Deathseed

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The 'Nids are way older than the Vong. Really way older. They are older than Star Craft (which Zergs were inspired by the 'Nids).

 

Oh I'm aware. I have my suspicions about them being the seed of the biotech fiction fad. Nids were from the early 90's. Vong was early 2000's.

Edited by Deathseed

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The 'Nids are way older than the Vong. Really way older. They are older than Star Craft (which Zergs were inspired by the 'Nids).

 

Oh I'm aware. I have my suspicions about them being the seed of the biotech fiction fad. Nids were from the early 90's. Vong was early 2000's.

 

 

Starship troopers came out in 1959. That pretty much defined the "alien hive mind bug army" concept that was later reinterpreted in Enders Game, Aliens, Tyranids and Zerg.

 

I also think the Vong didn't fit, and were the 2nd worst change to a sci-fi setting I can recall, after the "clan invasion" in battletech that not only forever destroyed game balance but introduced a society that was completely ridiculous. 

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Fun thing: The game balance in battletech is restored, the "new" BV works pretty well. (And I liked the Clan society, but I couldn't see, how they came to keep the tech level)

Oh, and I liked the Vong. With the Vong the mortality of the main cast was back. Made things exciting again.

Edited by Jochmann

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The 'Nids are way older than the Vong. Really way older. They are older than Star Craft (which Zergs were inspired by the 'Nids).

 

Oh I'm aware. I have my suspicions about them being the seed of the biotech fiction fad. Nids were from the early 90's. Vong was early 2000's.

 

 

Starship troopers came out in 1959. That pretty much defined the "alien hive mind bug army" concept that was later reinterpreted in Enders Game, Aliens, Tyranids and Zerg.

 

I also think the Vong didn't fit, and were the 2nd worst change to a sci-fi setting I can recall, after the "clan invasion" in battletech that not only forever destroyed game balance but introduced a society that was completely ridiculous. 

 

 

I see my comment has been addressed previously :D

 

(please note to any observing that I'm just making conversation and speculating)

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Fun thing: The game balance in battletech is restored, the "new" BV works pretty well. (And I liked the Clan society, but I couldn't see, how they came to keep the tech level)

Oh, and I liked the Vong. With the Vong the mortality of the main cast was back. Made things exciting again.

They retained the tech level by the clans' honor code.  They never went full apocalyptic on each other until the (much later) Wars of Reaving.  Even then, they didn't use WMDs.  OTOH, the Inner Sphere never really had the Star League tech, and they did go full apocalyptic on each other.  And they had ComStar killing all their scientists in the background, too.

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I hated the Vong. I love the Clans best part of Battletech. 

Personally, I didn't like their society. It was like they picked up a cliche "klingon" warrior society and dumped it into a setting where it didn't fit. The rationale behind their tech also didn't work, and a society like the clans simply couldn't work in any form of reality. The idea that the star league military would evolve into that society, and actually increase it's technology and not devolve is, well, fantastic. 

 

It forever changed Battletech from "grim dark future" to "Fantasy sci-fi" a bit too much for my liking. But that's my opinion. I'd been playing a lot of Battletech for years when the clans came out, and it was a huge paradigm shift. If you started playing after they appeared, I can see why it would be less jarring. But when they arrived, it essentially destroyed any kind of game balance and the stories they had been writing to that point. 

 

If you go back and read the original "house books" they published for the setting, they are some of the best sci-fi world building ever done. It would be like if in book 6 of Game of Thrones, warhammer fantasy orks invaded westeros. It was that jarring at the time. 

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Personally, I didn't like their society. It was like they picked up a cliche "klingon" warrior society and dumped it into a setting where it didn't fit. The rationale behind their tech also didn't work, and a society like the clans simply couldn't work in any form of reality. The idea that the star league military would evolve into that society, and actually increase it's technology and not devolve is, well, fantastic. 

 

It forever changed Battletech from "grim dark future" to "Fantasy sci-fi" a bit too much for my liking. But that's my opinion. I'd been playing a lot of Battletech for years when the clans came out, and it was a huge paradigm shift. If you started playing after they appeared, I can see why it would be less jarring. But when they arrived, it essentially destroyed any kind of game balance and the stories they had been writing to that point. 

 

If you go back and read the original "house books" they published for the setting, they are some of the best sci-fi world building ever done. It would be like if in book 6 of Game of Thrones, warhammer fantasy orks invaded westeros. It was that jarring at the time. 

 

I disagree, and I've been playing Battletech since 1986.  I do remember that it was quite the change when the 3050 TRO came out.  The more recent source books have done a great job in showing how the clans became the way they are, so if you haven't checked them out, you should.  I loved the original House Books, but I think that, if anything, the most recent stuff is actually better.  There definitely was a time, around 1990-2000, where things went downhill a bit.

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Curious, as the Rebels wiki calls it an A-wing

 

http://starwarsrebels.wikia.com/wiki/A-Wing_Starfighter

 

And it looks exactly like an A-wing. I couldn't find mention on wookiepedia to it not being an A-wing. Do you have a link?

 

Oh, and what about the B-wing in the trailer. I assume that's just another ship that looks exactly like a B-wing and not really a B-wing?

 

I dont want to defend anything, I just tell you what I read (I didnt even saw Rebels)

 

There is the

 

RZ-1 A-Wing that was developed after Yavin

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/RZ-1_A-wing_interceptor

 

and then there is the R-22 Spearhead

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/R-22_Spearhead

 

which was a test-fighter in Service before Yavin. It saw very limited numbers and was used by Dodonna as a base for the RZ-1.

 

The R-22 was also called A-Wing and looked pretty similiar, but the RZ-1 seems to be the main (and better) modell of  "A-Wing".

 

 

Despite the existence of the R-22 in the Droids cartoon (a piece of the EU that is best forgotten), I have to say I'm pretty puzzled as to why Filoni would put both the A-Wing and B-Wing in Rebels. Hopefully, he explains them both as early prototypes, but I don't think that you can expect that kind of subtelty from a kid's show.

 

It seems like they should have left this alone. The A and B wings were always described in source material as coming later than the Xwing/Ywing for a good reason: the A and B didn't show up until ROTJ while the X and Y were in ANH and TESB.

 

Possibly, by changing the "fighter development timeline," the new Star Wars story group is trying to make it more plausible that the Rebellion is still flying modified Xwings thirty years after ROTJ as opposed to a newer ship like, to give an old EU example, the Ewing. If the Xwing, in this new timeline, was the most recently developed ship, then, sure, using a new model of it in Ep VII isn't too strange. I have to admit I wish JJ and his design crew had been a bit more adventurous and designed completely new fighters for the good and bad guys, but I guess their guiding mantra seems to be "make it look and feel like the OT whenever possible."

 

Sorry for the off topic rant. I was curious if anybody else thought this way. Give Dave Filoni credit for one thing: there's nothing in the old EU that he isn't afraid to mess with!

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Despite the existence of the R-22 in the Droids cartoon (a piece of the EU that is best forgotten), I have to say I'm pretty puzzled as to why Filoni would put both the A-Wing and B-Wing in Rebels. Hopefully, he explains them both as early prototypes, but I don't think that you can expect that kind of subtelty from a kid's show.

 

It seems like they should have left this alone. The A and B wings were always described in source material as coming later than the Xwing/Ywing for a good reason: the A and B didn't show up until ROTJ while the X and Y were in ANH and TESB.

 

Possibly, by changing the "fighter development timeline," the new Star Wars story group is trying to make it more plausible that the Rebellion is still flying modified Xwings thirty years after ROTJ as opposed to a newer ship like, to give an old EU example, the Ewing. If the Xwing, in this new timeline, was the most recently developed ship, then, sure, using a new model of it in Ep VII isn't too strange. I have to admit I wish JJ and his design crew had been a bit more adventurous and designed completely new fighters for the good and bad guys, but I guess their guiding mantra seems to be "make it look and feel like the OT whenever possible."

 

Sorry for the off topic rant. I was curious if anybody else thought this way. Give Dave Filoni credit for one thing: there's nothing in the old EU that he isn't afraid to mess with!

 

Well, remember that the folks making Rebels aren't just making stuff up, they're getting it from the story group.  No doubt LFL approved them showing up.

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Oh, I'm waiting for good ol' Vize Admiral Thrawn...

And perhaps Captain Pellaeon.

This. I also wouldn't mind seeing Piett in some way, shape or form. Always liked the guy, for a reason I can't really nail down. I like to think he didn't get derped on the Executor, but I know that's highly unlikely. 

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Old school, i think i started about 88-89. 

 

OK, compare TRO 3050 to 3025 though. One has massive backstory and histories for each mech, The other is lucky to have a paragraph. TRO 3025 is one of the best supplements for a game ever, TRO 3050 felt rushed and poorly conceived. 3026 is also pretty good despite not being about mechs. 

For me, that signaled an end to good production, and the beginning of the decline of the range. 

But as i said, it's all personal opinion. 

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This. I also wouldn't mind seeing Piett in some way, shape or form. Always liked the guy, for a reason I can't really nail down. I like to think he didn't get derped on the Executor, but I know that's highly unlikely.

Probably because Piett doesn't come across as a bad guy in the slightest. He seems like a regular guy working alongside the embodiment of evil. Sure, he's an Admiral in a dictatorship that has enslaved the galaxy, but you always get the feeling he doesn't relish the evil bits. 

Kinda like Rommel, great German general of WWII, but had no love for the holocaust and the like, was doing his job. 

Edited by ithkrall

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The lore will find a way to make it work.

 

For instance, those proto A-Wings, unless specifically called RZ-1s, are going to be R22s. The scale debate can continue now since "larger" A-Wings will be called R22s, and the smaller Executor-smashing ones will be the smaller "proper" A-Wings. Or something.

 

The B-Wing could be the work of an eccentric scientist who made a one-off. Hera was so successful showing it off that the rebellion secreted away the prototype and re-developed it with the assistance of the Verpine at the Roche asteroids.

 

Don't underestimate the lore.

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This. I also wouldn't mind seeing Piett in some way, shape or form. Always liked the guy, for a reason I can't really nail down. I like to think he didn't get derped on the Executor, but I know that's highly unlikely.

Probably because Piett doesn't come across as a bad guy in the slightest. He seems like a regular guy working alongside the embodiment of evil. Sure, he's an Admiral in a dictatorship that has enslaved the galaxy, but you always get the feeling he doesn't relish the evil bits. 

Kinda like Rommel, great German general of WWII, but had no love for the holocaust and the like, was doing his job. 

 

 

it's the theory of likability relativity

 

Piett didn't execute any of his orderlies on screen for incompetence, nor was he incompetent; ergo he is one of the more likable :P

Edited by ficklegreendice

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it's the theory of likability relativity

 

Piett didn't execute any of his orderlies on screen for incompetence, nor was he incompetent; ergo he is one of the more likable :P

 

 

That, and you know he was quite literally about to cr*p himself on occasion. the actor did a fine job of portraying fear of vader, while maintaining composure. You end up feeling a bit sympathetic to him, as he has the worst boss in the universe. 

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it's the theory of likability relativity

 

Piett didn't execute any of his orderlies on screen for incompetence, nor was he incompetent; ergo he is one of the more likable :P

 

 

That, and you know he was quite literally about to cr*p himself on occasion. the actor did a fine job of portraying fear of vader, while maintaining composure. You end up feeling a bit sympathetic to him, as he has the worst boss in the universe. 

 

 

I think the accent helps too, although that could just be me. 

Thanks to mods, I've been able to apply Piett directly to rebel face in Sins of a Solar Empire, so that's definitely a part of it. I guess I want to relive my game exploits on the tabletop.

 

But after reading through the wiki, it seems like Piett had a bit of a backstabby history to him. "Devious but polite" would be a good descriptor.

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Says the people who actually control the Star Wars IP.

Yeah, some people don't really seem to understand what Canon and IP actually is. For an entity like FFG, which is subject to IP laws and contracts, they very much care what Disney/LFL says is or isn't canon.

 

Actually since none of the Star Wars games that FFG produces are considered canon, they are all in the Legends/EU realm, meaning FFG can draw inspiration from any of the Legends/EU content with the Star Wars brand without having to worry about breaking "official canon". If all of FFG's games' content were considered canon, then over half of the EU has been dragged back into the canon via FFG, which is not the case.

 

Note that also means that just because something appears in FFG's games does not make it part of the official canon.

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Says the people who actually control the Star Wars IP.

Yeah, some people don't really seem to understand what Canon and IP actually is. For an entity like FFG, which is subject to IP laws and contracts, they very much care what Disney/LFL says is or isn't canon.

 

Actually since none of the Star Wars games that FFG produces are considered canon, they are all in the Legends/EU realm, meaning FFG can draw inspiration from any of the Legends/EU content with the Star Wars brand without having to worry about breaking "official canon". If all of FFG's games' content were considered canon, then over half of the EU has been dragged back into the canon via FFG, which is not the case.

 

Note that also means that just because something appears in FFG's games does not make it part of the official canon.

 

Actually, FFG has to get the ok for their choices with LFL, which is one of the reasons why we don't see very much errata.

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