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Lord Vithiss

How do engine techs work exactly?

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Hey just had a quick question about engine techs

 

I see there is a navigate icon that triggers the card but can engine techs be used off of a command token or does it have to be the full command? Also if using the full command would engine techs be inaddition to to changing speed or is it either the normal command effect or the engine tech effect?

 

I plan on playing a game with it later today, so if anyone can clear this up that would be great!

 

 

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But it also means you 'spend' the command to trigger the card, so you can't both increase speed and use Engine Techs.

 

 

"Effects with a command icon as a header, such as [Navigate], can be resolved once while the ship is resolving the matching command."

 - Rules Reference pg. 5, Effect Use and Timing

 

Engine Techs triggers after you perform a maneuver during which you resolved the Navigate command.  Resolving a command by using a dial and/or a token is still the same command, just with different effects, so if you spend a Navigate dial and/or token on your normal maneuver, you can use Engine Techs afterward regardless of whether or not you actually changed your speed or yaw.

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The icon means anytime you can issue a Navigate command, you can use that card. But it also means you 'spend' the command to trigger the card, so you can't both increase speed and use Engine Techs.

But you can, the spending of the command is the trigger not the cost, so say you use a navigate token to increase speed of your original maneuver (trigger) you then exhaust (cost) engine techs to do a range 1 maneuver. That is what Joker Two cited in the rule above, it's saying that resoving the command normally is all that is needed to trigger it.

At least that's how I read it, I could be wrong.

Edit: Corrected wording.

Edited by skyhwk290

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Yup, you need to resolve the command (increase/decrease speed/yaw) to be able to use the Techs.

Any effect with a command icon is resolved within/around the command itself. The command goes off as usual.

Edited by DWRR

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Yup, you need to resolve the command (increase/decrease speed/yaw) to be able to use the Techs.Any effect with a command icon is resolved within/around the command itself. The command goes off as usual.

You need to resolve the command, but the command doesn't HAVE to have its effect. You could resolve a navigate command, not change speed or add yaw and still gain the upgrade's effect.

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Yup, you need to resolve the command (increase/decrease speed/yaw) to be able to use the Techs.Any effect with a command icon is resolved within/around the command itself. The command goes off as usual.

You need to resolve the command, but the command doesn't HAVE to have its effect. You could resolve a navigate command, not change speed or add yaw and still gain the upgrade's effect.

Correct. Most of the time though the effect will probably be quite be beneficial...

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Correct. Most of the time though the effect will probably be quite be beneficial...

 

Frequently, but I have had several occasions when a Nav command came up and I was happy with my current speed and bearing, or a squadron command was showing and I had no fighters left in range. In those circumstances you could still activate an upgrade based on the command.

 

(But not if you trade the dial for a token and do not spend the token that round, if I am reading things correctly)

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So, if my Gladiator is cruising at speed 3, and I have a token but no navigate dial, do I have to reduce speed to 2 in order to make use of its Engine Techs?

EDIT: In the FAQ, I read the following:

“A ship can resolve a command and choose not to produce its effect. It still counts as resolving that command, such as for the purpose of triggering upgrade cards.”

In other words, I can do the Engine Techs boost, without having to reduce speed, as long as I have the token or dial to resolve a navigate command.

Edited by Mikael Hasselstein

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So, if my Gladiator is cruising at speed 3, and I have a token but no navigate dial, do I have to reduce speed to 2 in order to make use of its Engine Techs?

No, but you do have to spend the token. There is a FAQ or something that states you can resolve a command strictly for upgrade purposes. EDIT- yep it's in the FAQ.

Edited by Indomitable

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This clarified the card for me as well - But the extra 1 move must be straight i suppose?

You can turn.

 

?  I wondered why it was not clarified .. I can turn 2 clicks + 1 extra move? 

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Can you show a nav command, take it as a token (for Wulf purposes), and spend the token the same turn you took it so you can engine tech?

 

Yes. Because you can spend the dial to get a token at the start of the ship's activation, and spend the token during the move step.

 

Command Tokens
When a ship’s command dial is revealed, that dial can be
spent to assign the corresponding command token to that
ship. Command tokens can be spent at the appropriate
time to resolve the lesser effect of that command.

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Also just to be sure, can a Gladiator with Demolisher and Engine Techs perform one of the attacks after using Engine Techs, right?

 

Yes, and since both abilities trigger at the same time ("after executing a maneuver") the player can choose which order in which to resolve them.  So it's equally valid to make the initial maneuver, attack, and make the E Techs maneuver or to make the E Techs maneuver and then the attack.

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Yesterday my opponent had a ship with engine techs. He spend the navigate command to alter its speed and used engine tech. He stated that, since he spend the navigate token, he could have an additional click on that 1-speed maneuver (from the engine techs) as well. 

 

I said it could not, since the alteration on speed and click only refers to the normal move, not the additional move. We resolved it this way.

 

But I would like to check whether this was correct.

 

In short: When you spend a navigate command, can you use those elements on the engine tech maneuver as well?

 

Addition: If you have both the navigate dial and token. Can you use the toke on the normal move (whether or not actually altering speed), and thus trigger engine tech, and then use the dial on the engine tech move to add a click.

Edited by Sander Walgers

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In short: When you spend a navigate command, can you use those elements on the engine tech maneuver as well?

 

Addition: If you have both the navigate dial and token. Can you use the toke on the normal move (whether or not actually altering speed), and thus trigger engine tech, and then use the dial on the engine tech move to add a click.

 

No and No and No.

 

You need to spend the Navigate command in order to trigger the Engine Techs.  Which means you need to spend the Command at the first navigate Step, or forfeit it.

 

Because you resolved that Navigate command, that allows you to trigger the engine Techs afterwards.  You can't have Engine Techs without resolving that Navigate Command in the first place!  So if you save it, you can't trigger it!  As you only get that one time - When Maneuvering in the first place - To Resolve It!

 

You can't also split a Nav Command and a Dial, because you can only resolve a given command Once...  Which means if you are spending both, you must spend both at the same time.  This is exactly the same as with having a Concentrate Fire Dial and Token - you can't spend one on one attack, and one on the other, as that is two resolutions of the command...

 

Ergo, you cannot get the Extra Click on the Engine Techs...  However, 90% of the time, Engine Techs are on Demolisher, and it already has Two Clicks for its Speed 1 Move.

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I did a search to find this instead of posting my own new topic. Several questions, 1 new and 1 as a rehash:

1. came up in a game the other day: can a ship perform a maneuver and then use the command/token to change speed? I couldn't find anything saying no.

2. Using the same logic as above (command must resolve before you trigger the upgrade), effects like flight controllers wouldn't go into effect while you are using a squadron command. There seems to be some incongruity with applying the logic for trigger effects between the two. However, Adar Talon is a great example of using wording to clarify the difference. Adar specifically states "after you have resolved," and does not contain the trigger icon. Thus it cannot use the effect during the command. However, the RRG states, under effects and timing, that a trigger effect can be used while resolving a command (and it specifically uses the navigation icon in the example). So using this logic, a command should be able to apply to the engine tech maneuver if you haven't resolved the command before choosing to perform the second maneuver. Additionally, any Imps running with Ozzel would also be able increase that to a speed three maneuver (meaning that Demo could essentially do a speed 6 maneuver to get into firing range!). I guess this was less of a question and more of a clarification attempt.

Edit:

Also, symmantics I know, but this is my actual second question- assuming I am correct above, and speed can be altered in the ET maneuver, if you used a navigation command to alter the first joint by an additional click, shouldn't that particular joint also be able to have that additional click on the second maneuver? It is still a part of the same command, and it is the same joint. The key phrase to consider here is "while," under Effects and Timing in the RRG. Thus, any effects incurred at the beginning of the command ought to carry through to the end of the command.

And a third question: as far as splitting a Nav command goes, is the command really being split if it is still a part of the same command and used on two separate maneuvers? I understand the reasoning, but the key word, again, is "while." The limitation of the Nav command is that you can only increase by 1 speed, or 1 click or both, but it doesn't say "when." So while you couldn't adjust 2 different joints by 1 click for 2 separate maneuvers, the duration of the command should affect both maneuvers without being split.

Edited by Parkdaddy

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1)
 

RRG, Page 11, Ship Movement

 

To execute a maneuver with a ship, its owner proceeds through the following steps:

 

1. Determine Course: Straighten the maneuver tool, then click the joints of the maneuver tool a number of times in either direction up to the corresponding yaw values indicated on the ship’s speed chart for the current speed. The ship can resolve a NAV command to adjust speed and/or yaw.

 

2. Move Ship: ...

 

 

That is where the speed change takes effect....  When you are doing your Maneuver.  So you cannot Do a Maneuver, and then change speed.  The Speed Change from the Order takes effect for that maneuver.  And since you can only perform a nav Command once per turn, this stops you from using a Dial (and wether or not you gain the benefit or not is irrelevent) to activate Engine Techs...  And then spend the Nav Token to modify the Engine Techs move (or vice versa)....

 

 

 

 

2) WHY wouldn't Flight Controllers activate?  I'm not getting any logic here, as how to activate a squadron is pretty well spelled out step by step in the Rules....

 

You Flip a Squadron Command, a Squadron command allows you to activate a certain number of squadrons.  When you activate a squadron, you flip its switch, and then proceed to move and shoot with it, in any order, subject to the rules...  During that squadron activation, Flight controllers takes effect.  DURING THAT ACTIVATION.

 

A Squadron command simply lets you activate a certain amount of squadrons.  These, for lack of a better term, happen as an interrupt and immediately...  

ADAR TALLON's wording is to stop you from activating the same squadron TWICE in the middle of the same Squadron Command.

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