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Kravel

2nd edition to 3rd edition price comparision

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I checked the $100 price tag for 3rd edition vs. 2nd. Someone guessed the four books are around 400 pages total and I can't see them being much smaller. If they turn out to be smaller, than this comparision will be inaccurate.

WFRP 2nd was 251 pages of rules, 4 pages of props, and 1 page of ad for $40. You another 127 pages from the Bestiary for another $30 dollars. 378 pages of rules total. If you throw in the GM Kit for an extra 32 pages for $15 you get 410 pages and a GM screen for $85.

If 3rd edition is at least 400 pages long, the price looks high. But those 2nd edition books don't include 30 dice (which one could argue weren't needed for 2nd edition) and the extra cards you will get--30 careers, spells, talents, party sheets etc. If those extra cards contain game info that isn't duplicated in the books themselves, you might be looking at another 30 pages of rules in card format.

And that price doesn't include the dice. 30 dice cost about $30 (which again you wouldn't have needed in 2nd edition). Or the other bits some GMs may or may not use.

So, if the books are at least 400 pages and the careers and most cards are not repeated as rules in those books, the price is about the same between 2nd books and 3rd edition books and 3rd edition also gives you 30 dice and extra bits (but no GM screen, I figured the character sheets are about worth one GM screen).

If the 3rd edition books are smaller than 100 pages each or duplicate a lot of the card info, then the deal might not look so good. But right now, it looks like quite a bargain if you use most of the extra bits (markers, stand ups, locations cards etc.)

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Good comparison, just remember that it is softback books in the 3rd ed. But I think the comparison is valid. And let's face it it costs money to make stuff. The price tag have never been an issue for me anyway :-)

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Only trouble is that the price might be higher in Europe where I live. I was wondering if FFG had a production site in Europe. I know that I gladly would participate in games design and production if it was placed in the central Denmark in Scandinavie where I live. If there was a production site in Europe the price would surely be nice!

My backgound is from a group that started playing WFRP 1st ed and all sort of GW back in the early 90's and we did at some stage make a proposal for WFRP 2nd ed back in 1992 and sent it of to GW but it was sadly rejected.

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The price isn't a problem for me either, but many complaints are that the set comes with extras that aren't needed. I just wanted to do a comparision book for book. The hardcover part would make the new books less valuable to some, but info is info and I think the new edition does stack up price wise. I just hope the books aren't smaller than around 400 pages total.

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Armrek said:

Only trouble is that the price might be higher in Europe where I live. I was wondering if FFG had a production site in Europe. I know that I gladly would participate in games design and production if it was placed in the central Denmark in Scandinavie where I live. If there was a production site in Europe the price would surely be nice!

My backgound is from a group that started playing WFRP 1st ed and all sort of GW back in the early 90's and we did at some stage make a proposal for WFRP 2nd ed back in 1992 and sent it of to GW but it was sadly rejected.

I don't know the FFG costs in Europe. Hopefully cost isn't too much higher.

With all the retro games out I find it interesting that Runequest moved to a British publishing company and Warhammer has moved to the US for development. Interesting times.

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Initial expenditure is off-putting, even if you consider the quality and quantity of components.  I just hope FFG knows what they're doing - I will probably get it, but I can see people on the fence shying away from a $100 price tag.  I definitely think it's worth it, but the casual buyer will be sceptical.

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Ye Ancient One said:

Initial expenditure is off-putting, even if you consider the quality and quantity of components.  I just hope FFG knows what they're doing - I will probably get it, but I can see people on the fence shying away from a $100 price tag.  I definitely think it's worth it, but the casual buyer will be sceptical.

I'm not going to argue that $100 isn't a lot of money and to some too much for an RPG. For myself, though, I don't feel it is too much if I get my money's worth.

FFG puts out $90 boardgames and continues to make them. And supplements for $60 for the $90 game. That price astounds me. I play boardgames maybe four times a year but I roleplay every other week.

What I can't figure out is why $100 seems like so much for an RPG when a person is likely to get a lot of use out of it. If you played WFRP 3 for five months, every other week, at five hours a pop the price per hour comes out to $2. That is dirt cheap compared to any other entertainment out there.

If you play a longer campaign or multiple campaigns the price becomes even lower.

I suppose if you think it sucks after you buy it you're out the money, but the same is true of a boardgame. And you can always try it out at a con or with another group before buying, just like a boardgame.

Again, I'm not trying to argue with anyone about the use of his or her own money. I'm just stating the dollar value I see here and that the price doesn't seem unreasonable (whether it is high or not).

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The price point has been argued several times. $100 is a lot of money to hand over just to buy in. Most games you can buy the Core Book for less than half that. Then you decide do I want the rest of the books. Several people have asked can you buy just the books with no cards etc.. and receive a discount. The cards and stuff are extras that a lot of people don't really want or more specifically don't want to pay for.  If there was a $60 set with just the Books (or better yet just one big book) and the Dice or a Delux set with everything for $100 I would expect the $60 set to out sell the $100 set by a huge amount. 

At the end of the day WFRPv2 (and many other RPG's) could be played with just the Core Rulebook at a price of about $30-40. On the other hand the minimum price of WFRPv3 is $100.

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Kravel said:

 

Armrek said:

 


 

 

I don't know the FFG costs in Europe. Hopefully cost isn't too much higher.

 

 

 

 

Well in Norway its gonna be 600 kroner (not shipping), if bought from FFG. And heres the thing, the Dark Heresy Core book bought in a Norwegian rpg shop cost about 550 kroner and WHFRP 2 cost 400 kroner, and the usual rpg book from 300 - 400 kroner. Its not really a big deal with the price tag, but I bet if its comes to be sold over here from one of the shops it will be just an insane price. So I always by my books over seas, no taxes on books order over the border :)

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Kravel said:

Ye Ancient One said:

What I can't figure out is why $100 seems like so much for an RPG when a person is likely to get a lot of use out of it.

Is it that likley? Most of the RPGs I own I haven't played for more than a few sessions. Very few get played a lot.

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jadrax said:

Kravel said:

 

Ye Ancient One said:

What I can't figure out is why $100 seems like so much for an RPG when a person is likely to get a lot of use out of it.

Is it that likley? Most of the RPGs I own I haven't played for more than a few sessions. Very few get played a lot.

 

I can see your point. I used to buy more RPGs but now I usually only pick up those I actually plan to play. Even so, for me, if I enjoy reading the books and sorting through the cards, the value would be there if the price comparision is reasonable. So far, the price looks reasonable.

 

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Armrek said:

Only trouble is that the price might be higher in Europe where I live.

My local game shop (in Austria) told me, the price will be around €99 - they will desperately tryi to stay under the magically 100...

But given the stuff in the box, kravel is right - it's relatively cheap. I always compare the time I spend with a game with its price; so when I buy a boardgame for €40 and play it only a few times before putting it away, that would be expensive. But if I spend hundreds of Euros for a game I play endless hours over years, it's not so bad.

Going to the movies with my family cost me a fortune (from tickets to popcorn and 'daddy, buy me a coke paleeeeeze!); RPGs are really cheap compared to other games and leisure activities, especially when you consider the time/$ factor lengua.gif

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The Legendary Jack Slayer said:

 

....

At the end of the day WFRPv2 (and many other RPG's) could be played with just the Core Rulebook at a price of about $30-40. On the other hand the minimum price of WFRPv3 is $100.

 

 

This is more the reason people dont like the cost.  I'm sure there are very few people that dont think the set is over priced for what you are getting, its simply that $99US is alot to laydown for something you may never actually use or even like.

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jadrax said:

Is it that likley? Most of the RPGs I own I haven't played for more than a few sessions. Very few get played a lot.

 

This is why I won't be getting it. I'll gladly spend €40 - €60 on an RPG I know I'll probably never get a chance to play. I like reading the setting etc. WFRP is just too expensive for that, especially as I'm already familiar with the setting material.

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PzVIE said:

Going to the movies with my family cost me a fortune (from tickets to popcorn and 'daddy, buy me a coke paleeeeeze!); RPGs are really cheap compared to other games and leisure activities, especially when you consider the time/$ factor lengua.gif

Very well put cool.gif

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What cost $27.99 in 1985 would cost $55.29 in 2008.
Also, if you were to buy exactly the same products in 2008 and 1985,
they would cost you $27.99 and $14.20 respectively.

Do you want to do another calculation?

 

What cost $99.95 in 2008 would cost $50.60 in 1985.
Also, if you were to buy exactly the same products in 1985 and 2008,
they would cost you $99.95 and $197.06 respectively.

Do you want to do another calculation?



www.westegg.com/inflation/

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 I think that the 4 books will not be as big as the WFRP rulebook. 99$ is a lot of cash for a core box & a lot of RPG players will be probably be disappointed with WFRP3. Nothing Jay Little has said so far has convinced me or my group otherwise.

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NezziR said:

What cost $27.99 in 1985 would cost $55.29 in 2008.
Also, if you were to buy exactly the same products in 2008 and 1985,
they would cost you $27.99 and $14.20 respectively.

Do you want to do another calculation?

 

What cost $99.95 in 2008 would cost $50.60 in 1985.
Also, if you were to buy exactly the same products in 1985 and 2008,
they would cost you $99.95 and $197.06 respectively.

Do you want to do another calculation?



www.westegg.com/inflation/

Inflation doesn't track on all products exactly. As I write this post $30-40 is a fairly standard price for an RPG Core Rulebook. $100 for a Core Set is almost unheard of for a single product.

I'm sure somebody will bring up the price of D&D4e three Core Books ($105) but if you buy the set containing all three you usually get a discount or you can purchase them individually over a period of weeks or months. You also have the option to buy a single book, check out the system and decide if you wish to invest more money. In addition I believe Jadrax pointed out on an earlier thread that $30-40 worth of book makes a nice Birthday/Christmas present. However, $100 is somewhat expensive for a gift.  

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I think those numbers look pretty close, as close as any of the guess work on this subject I've seen so far. While we're on the subject of guessing, I'm guessing the individual components will be available sooner or later and these boxes will be collector's items. Just guessing of course :)

 

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 Two cents:

 

Suppose the 400pp count is corret.

We know (near for certain) that we'll get less "contents", RPG speakinly. Less careers, less world described, less gods, less races, etc.

 

So:

1) They used more "fluff" to describe something that, in older editions, was shorter but equally playable (quite well).

2) There are more words about on "how to use" the new trinkets or how to play.

3) There are blank pages scattered around the books.

 

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 For what you are getting, it does seem reasonable from a cost perspective. But what about getting new people into the game? Who in their right mind would buy something like that without a test drive and I don't see FF putting out a "Quick Start" version because of all the paraphernalia that they are forcing down our throats.

And what about us skeptics that are not sold with the concept of this new version? I am not willing to pay $100 for these new rules that use all of this stuff that me and my players don't like (cards, special dice, cardboard pieces that we have to keep track or and end up getting lost) only to find out that we were right and we don't like it.

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