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Imperial Advisor Arem Heshvaun

Disney considering a Marvel and Star Wars TV channel

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Uh, a fascist dictatorship? You may want to qualify that statement, because right now, without any supporting arguments, you're coming off a little ridiculous.


I love how the whole Empire=Nazis crowd hasn't even touched on the US Military's... less than stellar reputation.


I served in the military for 6 years. I'd love for you to explain this tangent a little bit more.

My guess is that they're equating what has been termed "collateral murder", civilian deaths generally attributed to bad intelligence, with the Empire's use of WMDs against its own citizens.  He might have a leg to stand on if the Pentagon had nuked an American city as a result of the Oklahoma City bombing.  If Afghanistan had been turned into a smoking sheet of glass in the wake of 9/11, the case would be more tenuous (as they weren't our citizens) but still compelling.

That said, we've gone rather far afield from the original topic.  What were we talking about again?

Edited by Luke Licens

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What were we talking about again?

  • Treating Star Wars as if it's real and then discussing it out of its fictional context.

  • Treating Star Wars as if it's a perfect parallel to historical events.
  • Somehow concluding from this that America is the Nazis.


This isn't even a tangent any more. It's a chord.

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As for the empire, I never read any EU stuff, but played a few games (battlefront, shadows of the empire) but I always thought of the rebels as terrorists. I guess part of it was being middle school aged when 9/11 happened, but they never really did anything to show that the rebels weren't just terrorists, and the Empire never did anything in the movies particulary heinous. I mean, they destroyed a sparsely populated planet hosting a serious terrorist cell\base/populatíon. The rebels killed at least millions if not billions of people on the death star...


That's why I'm pro-empire...

Sorry to go off on a tangent, but it is amazing what that statement reveals about changes in the psyche of people in the U.S. Post 9/11. The original trilogy contained a significant level of referencing the U.S.A's creation mythology* along with all the WW2 baggage. In the 1970s and 1980s it was nigh on unthinkable to side with the Empire.

*Plucky band of rebels throw off the oppressive yoke of an oppressive empire and all that. You even have bad guys played by British actors to ram the point home.


As I get older, I can start to see the side of the movie, but it screams War on Terror to someone who's psyche was formed around the Post-911 world. I was just young enough to know what changes occurred after 9/11, but old enough that it shaped the way I looked at things in a definite, recognizable and tangible way.


The only reason I saw to think the empire is evil is the title crawl, where it calls them evil.




I imagine the destruction of Alderaan, with billions of civilians on it, was more than enough to confirm that the guys that looked like bad guys were at least as evil as they looked. 

It was intended to make them look evil. 


But there is a million ways to look at it.


I grew up Catholic, with the whole: "Life is sacred. So we kill to protect it." philosophy, while most Americans come from a more protestant background with the whole: "Life is sacred. We'd die before we'd take it." angle. 


Add in the WW2 parallels (Death Star = Atom Bomb, but has the opposite reaction (Rebels band together instead of submit), and it makes the Empire look sympathetic, while the Rebels look misguided. Also, Alderaan is said to be sparsely populated and host to a serious terrorist population, which while it doesn't make it a lot better, does make it better than say destroying coruscant.


"...I have chosen to test this station's destructive power on your home planet of Alderaan."

"NO! Alderaan is peaceful! We have no weapons! You can't possibly..."

"You would prefer another target? A MILITARY target? Then, name the system.  I grow tired of asking this, so it will be the last time: Where is the rebel base?"

"Dantooine.  They're on Dantooine."

"There, you see, Lord Vader, she can be reasonable.  Continue with the operation, you may fire when ready."



"You're far too trusting. Dantooine is far to remote to make an effective demonstration, but don't worry, we will deal with your rebel friends soon enough."


noun: terrorism
the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.

"FEAR will keep the local systems in line.  Fear of this battle station."

This is a government whose head of state has just dissolved the representative council of its constituency and intends to control its population through an official "doctrine of terror" whereby it indiscriminately murders millions, if not billions, of its own citizens in order to A) test the effectiveness of its WMD, B) prove its willingness to use said WMD against its own citizens, and C) hold the lives of innocent citizens hostage as a form of interrogation against anyone accused (but not tried or convicted) of treason.

So, you're saying that you were convinced that this government is the goodguys?

I find it hard to believe that anyone raised in a western nation post 9/11 could see the Empire as anything but villains after they attacked a civilian target in an attempt to punish a military organization and effect political change through terror.



do you understand the principles of warfare and "will"?



Do you understand the principles of the rules of war and war crimes?




yes.  yes I do.

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