Components of a lightsaber

[Donovan Morningfire 10,200]

While I agree with what Ghostofman said as well as the quoting of the FaD Beta in that assembling a hilt doesn't require a roll per se, I can see/understand the desire for some GMs to have it not be quite so simple, especially those GMs of an older age bracket who recall that building a lightsaber was a big thing for an aspiring Jedi Knight.

 

As for what sort of check, I'd say let the player have the option of either a Mechanics or Lightsaber check, with the difficulty determined by the base Rarity of the type of hilt they are constructing.  So a regular basic lightsaber hilt (Rarity 5) would be an Average difficulty check, while a double-bladed lightsaber hilt (Rarity 6) would be at a Hard difficulty.

 

It's not something I'd ever require in my game, but it's a decent baseline until such point as FFG opts (if ever) to include more detailed rules on lightsaber construction.

[Wulfherr 46]

Actually there is an interesting description of Luke's take on lightsaber construction in "Heir to the Jedi" novel from the new canon. To me it suggests the tech is quite simple in terms of components, but the crystal(s) need to be aligned properly using Sense and Move. I don't have the book with me at the moment, but I'm sure someone can quote it.

I believe you.

 

But I counter with Ezra in rebels barely knew how to use either of those powers and was able to make his saber no problem.

 

 

Remember it's a game system, not an accurate simulation. If it were you'd actually have to have the "Fine manipulation" level of "Move" to build a saber... and that's what? 45XP?

 

The canon wipe was all about letting go of all the junk that really didn't mater and focusing on core. Forcing the player to have prerequisites or succeed at certain skill checks doesn't contribute to the game in a positive way. It just put arbitrary hurdles in the way of something that really doesn't need them.

 

Lightsabers, as they appear in F&D, are fairly well balanced when held up to blaster rifles. I'm not about to keep my players from getting a rifle, why should I keep them from getting a saber, especially if I have the crystal as a major quest reward.

Oh, I agree with your comment on canon wipe all the way. I was commenting more on the SWTOR sequence. In fact in my current game the first player to actually acquire a crystal and construct a lightsaber only has the basic Sense power (he is a Marauder-like Shii-Cho Knight/Aggressor with really high Brawn). I would never require a player to posess Move, but I liked narrating the cnstruction scene "crystal shard-by-crystal-shard", as he channelled the Force and aligned the components into a perfect and (perhaps) unique combination.

[Jereru 171]

Mind-assembling the pieces together is just making it look cool, of course I'd never ask for Move purchasing nor use.

On the other hand, characters in SWTOR belong to a Jedi Academy, so they probably have a basic understanding of most Powers when they graduate.

But yeah, just fluff.

[Lathrop 838]

Similar thing shows up in Clone Wars, basically it's how all the Younglings got to put their lightsabers together. Pretty much the same general thing, just all the pieces lining up and then connecting together to one.

 

I give people with move and the fine manipulation control upgrade significantly reduced times when doing basic repairs, throwing on basic attachments, and building new hilts. That way more advanced force users get a neat narrative thing they can do that will, for the most part, provide very little bonuses in most scenarios, but still helps the player feel like they're making significant progress in becoming a powerful force user.

[EldritchFire 499]

Would there be a roll to assemble the lightsaber? My character has the parts and the crystal for her lightsaber, we're just wondering is it a roll, or its just done. We were thinking it was a Daunting test to assemble and align the crystal, but the character could use their force die for either hits or advantage.

There is no roll to assemble the Lightsaber. Per page 125:

"If the PC wants to construct their own hilt out of available materials, the GM can still have the PCs make a check to find the hilt based on its rarity and pay the cost. This represents them finding and paying for the raw materials. Then it is simply a matter of spending a few hours putting the materials together to build the hilt—no checks are necessary."

-EF

I would like to put this out there for those who like the simulation type playing...  There is nothing stopping anyone from creating/house ruling a set of Checks to build a lightsaber.  Some people like that kind of thing, others don't.  If you're a Player that likes that sort of thing, talk to your GM about designing a one on one session or a segment within a normal session with Checks designed to represent the construction of a lightsaber.

Well, yeah. But the question was "is there a roll or is it just done?" F&D beta says its just done. Saying "you can house rule it" doesn't answer the question. Of course you can, it's your game! I wouldn't have even posted the quote from the book if the question was "how would you house rule making a lightsaber?"

-EF

[Kesendeja 39]

The GM decided to let me just make the saber and handle the moding of it normally. I stlill do less damage than the Bounty Hunter in the group, with his tricked out swords. We were just wondering because we both come from the WEG Star Wars system where it was a major deal and incredibly difficult to build one.

[Daeglan 5,950]

FFG said why make a player jump through silly hoops to be awesome. Think about it what does making a player roll to make their lightsaber accomplish really? All I can think of is delay fun. 

[Vigil 687]

It seems to me that the most important aspect of the construction of a lightsaber is the vision quest leading the acquisition of the lightsaber crystal. 

From what we've seen in continuity, the remainder of the lightsaber's construction is fairly rote, simple, and straight forward. 

From what we've seen thus far, I would think that a spiritual challenge rather than a purely physical (meaning combat) challenge would be the most important part. And it's not about bending the Force to one's will, as one does when using the Force to push, pull, throw, whatever, it's about transcending your own (chiefly psychological) limitations. 

I'm not sure how you could accomplish this without having your players fast for a couple of days by themselves in the woods. Except you could craft challenges for them and their characters by requiring them to perform a task that plays against whatever weakness(es) their character possesses. So if the character's weakness is, say, Fear, you (the GM) set out a task before them that requires them to overcome their fear. Or their anger, their jealousy, whatever. The reward for completing the task is their lightsaber crystal. 

Thus the task can be accomplished relatively quickly while still offering plenty of opportunity to build character. 

Edited May 20, 2015 by Vigil

[Jereru 171]

Yes. It is a religion, after all, so mind and will related things are in order, imho.

It will depend on the tone the GM wants the game to have, though. Crystals through mystical quests or through rescuing long lost ship cargoes, in the end it's all about the game atmosphere.

Meetra Surik, for example, finds her "special crystal" on Dantooine. I guess I would ask for attunement rolls in exchange for a more powerful or personalized crystal.

[ColonelCommissar 1,243]

I agree on not making people jump through hoops, but there are sources suggesting that building a lightsaber needs more than just a toolkit. The Jedi Path says that force users must enter into a state of deep meditation in order to bond the molecules of the lightsaber together or else it will explode. I wouldn't do this as a test, especially as I imagine it's rather easy to do - anyone can lift a few small objects with the force - but if necessary I'd play it as a Discipline check. That's just my opinion though; narratively I'd just have them go into a meditative trance and assemble it.

[Daeglan 5,950]

I agree on not making people jump through hoops, but there are sources suggesting that building a lightsaber needs more than just a toolkit. The Jedi Path says that force users must enter into a state of deep meditation in order to bond the molecules of the lightsaber together or else it will explode. I wouldn't do this as a test, especially as I imagine it's rather easy to do - anyone can lift a few small objects with the force - but if necessary I'd play it as a Discipline check. That's just my opinion though; narratively I'd just have them go into a meditative trance and assemble it.

The discipline check adds what exactly? This is all stuff that can be handled with narrative. The randomizer does not add to the story at all. 

[ColonelCommissar 1,243]

I wouldn't use a Discipline check myself, I was just throwing my opinion into the debate. It seems kind of futile, but if one wanted that mechanic it's there.

[Daeglan 5,950]

I wouldn't use a Discipline check myself, I was just throwing my opinion into the debate. It seems kind of futile, but if one wanted that mechanic it's there.

My point is the die roll does not do anything to add to the fun. All it does is delay the player getting the item they likely have already worked hard to earn. Imagine a player rolling 15 failures trying to construct their lightsaber. Would that be fun to anyone? How does the rolling dice for the construction of the lightsaber add to the fun? A GM really should ask this question. Is making the player roll for this action going to improve the story? Is a possible failure at this point going to add excitement or fun? If the answer to those questions is no. Don't roll the dice. I can see a point to the roll if stormtroopers are battering down the door. Will you have a lightsaber for the next scene? That makes a die roll matter. Will I have a lightsaber for the next sessions mission... that is a silly non productive die roll. 

[ColonelCommissar 1,243]

Hey, I was just making an argument for a particular dice roll that could be used. I stated that I wouldn't use it myself, I was merely pointing out one way in which to construct a lightsaber. Even in the text you quoted I said that I wouldn't use the check myself. It's just there as a gameplay option. Though if there were stormtroopers breaking down the door...

[kaosoe 7,573]

We had to put it on hold,  but I was running a mixed game where in 3 of my 4 players were rolling Force users. It came down to the moment where they would construct their lightsabers after having acquired their crystals from an ancient and forgotten temple (the adventure in the back of the beta book) and I just went around the table and had them describe the process of assembling their sabers.

 

I had them make no checks, but simply allowed them to describe the cool scene.

 

In a game I'm playing in at my FLGS, I'm playing a doctor, FS:Ex, Sage. I've had my crystal for a long time through a certain published adventure. But my GM is playing the long game with my character acquiring the rest of the parts. Well the parts have since been acquired (through liberal use of credits and a few Streetwise checks) and now he's making me roll for assembling. The problem is, the difficulty is such that I've failed nearly a dozen times so far. Rolling to put it together has started to take the fun away. Enough so, that it's one of the reasons why I'm thinking about retiring the character and playing something else.

 

tl;dr: Think about what you want to get out of the lightsaber construction. If you just want to build a cool scene, work with the player. You can easily tell your player "Time to build your saber. I'm not going to ask for a roll, but this process is time consuming and stressful. The first time requires concentration and you're only going off of ancient notes and diagrams. So it won't be easy for your character. In the end, you'll succeed, but I want you to tell me how that process goes. And..... ACTION!!!"
 

Edited May 20, 2015 by kaosoe

[Vixen Icaza 317]

I am making my players roll a check. However it is not a pass/fail check

Successes and failures will be about time and quality with a triumph being a free upgrade and a despair being the colour becomes a colour different to that desired.

[Ghostofman 8,319]

and a despair being the colour becomes a colour different to that desired.

[Takeshi84 229]

But I counter with Ezra in rebels barely knew how to use either of those powers and was able to make his saber no problem.

 

I am not in anyway trying to dispute what Ghostofman said.

 

I just wanted to add that in Rebels Ezra was far more capable with the Force at the point he makes his Lightsaber than Luke is at the end of Heir to the Jedi.  Now Ezra does have the Huge Benefit of Kanan guiding him and I would not doubt that he showed him how to do the basic assembly.

 

While Luke's ability does grow through the course of the book. It takes the whole book for Luke to learn how to readily begin to have any real control of the Force. His significant accomplishment at the end was feeding himself with the Force. (Not very well I might add)..

[Jereru 171]

 

and a despair being the colour becomes a colour different to that desired.

 

 

Jereru loves this.

Can they be sparkly?

[Donovan Morningfire 10,200]

I wonder if in the case of using/employing those Force powers (Sense and Move) in building a lightsaber, there's too much overthinking on what upgrades are required?

 

For most PCs, using a Force power is being done in less-than-ideal circumstances that involve varying degrees of stress (such as high-stress situations like combat) where their degree of success (i.e. how many Force points you generate).

 

In most instances, constructing a lightsaber is done under fairly low-stress situations, with the only real pressure of success being from the builder themselves rather than outside sources.  So in that case, probably just having the Move and/or Sense powers would be sufficient if a GM wanted to require some degree of Force ability in the process of building a lightsaber.  As was noted, Ezra is far from an expert on the Force, and yet was able to build a perfectly functional (if unconventional) lightsaber while still being very much a novice.  We also see the same from the Initiates in TCW when they're taken on a field trip to Ilum to build their lightsabers, and I strongly doubt they've acquired much in the way of upgrades for Move and/or Sense.

 

To go with my earlier suggestion about using the Rarity rating of the type of hilt desired to determine the DC of the Mechanics check, perhaps having both Move and Sense powers (even if just the basic ability) reduces the difficulty to construct the lightsaber hilt by one.

[Vixen Icaza 317]

and a despair being the colour becomes a colour different to that desired.

 

Jereru loves this.

Can they be sparkly?

Just been to the local Pride parade got some great despair ideas.

[Jereru 171]

 

 

 

and a despair being the colour becomes a colour different to that desired.

 

Jereru loves this.

Can they be sparkly?

Just been to the local Pride parade got some great despair ideas.

 

[MatrixQ 3]

When it comes to using force powers to create a saber, I think it makes sense for the stories sake to say that after a long period of meditation, any force user can use at least a basic form of any of the powers. So while you are in the process of creating a sword and you learn how it's build and meditate over the steps and how to execute them, etc., you don't need the move power, yet you move the items with the force. You just let yourself guide by the force in that moment. The powers as they are on the book are more of an "I need to do this now!" sort of thing.

 

Any rolls you might want to do should be done before the assembly, not for it. Tests of faith, discipline to connect with the force, all of that can be done in various tests until you succeed and the force is telling you that you are ready for a saber. After that, I would go narrative only as a lot of others said.