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Sixter

Will Epic ever take off?

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I also think that it was a mistake to relase a rebel ship without an imperial counterpart. Now that that is finally being corrected, hopefully we will see more epic games. I hope so. I for one would like to see more epic ships as well. we shall see.  Here's hoping epic becomes a much bigger thing.(I also like armada, but I can enjoy both, as well as regular old xwing)

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I'm not sure what you mean by "take off".  There is enough interest in my local area for playing Epic.  It's a really fun thing we pull out every couple of months.  It pulls in new players and spices the game up for us veterans.  It's a lot of fun.

 

I'm not sure if Epic will ever take off as a tournament thing.  In other words, people play Epic vs. Epic games to see who comes out #1.  To me, it's a variant of the regular game that really refreshes it from a stale death match game of stale meta. 

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Epic is a thing me and my friends play team epic alot actually we almost exclusively play epic unless there is a tournament in the next 2-4 weeks.. There are a ton of new list options that epic opens up things that aren't really doable in 100 point games. I actually prefer epic x-wing to armada. As for tournament play it would need to be a different format than 100 point death match 4 rounds of swiss and a cut to top 8 isn't feasible when you are doubling the round length.

Warhammer and 40k have tournaments, and those games can last as long as an Epic match, so Epic tournaments should be doable.

But the thing with Warhammer 40K is that they are objective based formats with the objectives allowing for games to be called and the points to be added up to determine who is the tournament leaders. X-wing as of now is currently elimination for objectives and it takes a while to remove every model to include 2 ships builds. Now with Epic it is often that one side steam rolls the other side so some rounds may be shorter. But also people don't know how epic plays when compared to standard. They often don't know the maneuvers of epic ships and not knowing that it takes 3 banks to make a turn where as all other ships can make a turn in only 2 banks. So these things along with more dials can make rounds last longer.

 

With tournaments you want a time limit so you can quickly eliminate players and leave the top contestants playing for the title of champion. Very few people can go to a tournament that lasts more than 1 day. With the next round launching within 1&1/2 to 2 hours. There is only so many hours in the waking time of a day.

 

I think if Epic had objectives like Armada then tournaments can become more viable because there is more than just tabling your opponent to determine the winner. For the final match you can have table the opponent as the last round.

I've never actually played 40k, but I do play Infinity, which is also objective based. From my experience with that I can safely say I would probably enjoy objective based Epic play. Maybe that's something they're looking at for the Epic tourney support FFG has mentioned.

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The rebels have 2 and the other 2 factions 0. Raider still makes it 2-1-0. Armada will probably kill off any real hope of epic being a thing unless FFG rolls out an epic ship for 2/3 factions every year.

Longer, more expensive, less dynamic, another game that perhaps better represents it... Not looking good.

 

Epic only really needed an Imperial epic. It's about 300pt dogfights, not fleet battles. If you want Endor, Armada does Endor. Epic is Yavin.

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I don't think it's gonna take off in the way they may have intended for it too, and it's kinda their own fault. How long have we had the transport and corvette, while Imps waited patiently with nothing? If they had released Epic ships together, it might have had a chance. Now we have Armada to fill the gap of giant-ship-on-giant-ship action, and it seems to do well. I just picked up Armada, and now am considering *gasp* not picking up the Raider immediately! At least, not the Raider for X-wing. ;)

 

I've generally enjoyed my Epic games, but they aren't my favorite. We do it so we can get lots of ships on the table, and because it's great for team play. I've been the only one to fly an epic ship. Maybe that's why I don't care too much for it, but...let's face it, it should almost be required that those monsters hit the table.

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Our local group is trying to set up an epic tournament after the raider's release. Basically, you team up with someone by taking the same faction as that player, then go on playing 2 games of individual 200vs200 points that last 90 minutes each. Then, you form the teams in a final 400vs400 team epic final, with the combined MoV deciding the pairing (swiss style). The team that got the highest total MoV from all 3 games wins the event. If there's an odd number of teams, the lowest ranked teams battle it out 400v400v400 or something. We're trying to think about some squad restrictions that will prevent the worst parts of steamrolling, as in, force a the presence of a big ship per team or per player, force large equipped ships for s&v to balance it. The idea is to avoid pure cheap swarms, or 6 firesprays with recon specialists, which are amazingly good and would wipe out any honest list that wasn't prepared against it. Details have to be hammered out. Really wish we could know when the raider will be out.

Require each 200 point list to fly at least 2 epic points. Let S&V count each 50 points spent on a single ship as 1 epic point. So if they can cram 100 points onto a single ship, more power to 'em!

You'd only be able to fit 5 Mandelorian Mercs into a 200 point list- but none of them would be "epic"

For me, the biggest problem would be 2 S&V solo players grouped together with 8 IG88s between them. I think that would be a common S&V Epic build (everyone wants to try it!), and it just kind of offends my sense of rightness. But it may actually not be incredibly powerful.

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Our local group is trying to set up an epic tournament after the raider's release. Basically, you team up with someone by taking the same faction as that player, then go on playing 2 games of individual 200vs200 points that last 90 minutes each. Then, you form the teams in a final 400vs400 team epic final, with the combined MoV deciding the pairing (swiss style). The team that got the highest total MoV from all 3 games wins the event. If there's an odd number of teams, the lowest ranked teams battle it out 400v400v400 or something. We're trying to think about some squad restrictions that will prevent the worst parts of steamrolling, as in, force a the presence of a big ship per team or per player, force large equipped ships for s&v to balance it. The idea is to avoid pure cheap swarms, or 6 firesprays with recon specialists, which are amazingly good and would wipe out any honest list that wasn't prepared against it. Details have to be hammered out. Really wish we could know when the raider will be out.

Require each 200 point list to fly at least 2 epic points. Let S&V count each 50 points spent on a single ship as 1 epic point. So if they can cram 100 points onto a single ship, more power to 'em!

You'd only be able to fit 5 Mandelorian Mercs into a 200 point list- but none of them would be "epic"

For me, the biggest problem would be 2 S&V solo players grouped together with 8 IG88s between them. I think that would be a common S&V Epic build (everyone wants to try it!), and it just kind of offends my sense of rightness. But it may actually not be incredibly powerful.

 

 

This is why an event like this needs to be carefully hammered out so that situations where 8 Aggressors are brought for a single team are avoided completely. First off, a team can't bring the same 2 uniques is a policy that begins to solve that problem.

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Our local group is trying to set up an epic tournament after the raider's release. Basically, you team up with someone by taking the same faction as that player, then go on playing 2 games of individual 200vs200 points that last 90 minutes each. Then, you form the teams in a final 400vs400 team epic final, with the combined MoV deciding the pairing (swiss style). The team that got the highest total MoV from all 3 games wins the event. If there's an odd number of teams, the lowest ranked teams battle it out 400v400v400 or something. We're trying to think about some squad restrictions that will prevent the worst parts of steamrolling, as in, force a the presence of a big ship per team or per player, force large equipped ships for s&v to balance it. The idea is to avoid pure cheap swarms, or 6 firesprays with recon specialists, which are amazingly good and would wipe out any honest list that wasn't prepared against it. Details have to be hammered out. Really wish we could know when the raider will be out.

 

I'm trying to make a proxy card and titles for a S&V version of GR-75 transport. You can view it HERE.

 

But yeah I am still trying to hammer out the details for the titles and see how viable of a list it is.

 

Still as of now the starfighter swarms dominate epic. However making a huge ship a requirement using these house rules allows for S&V to bring a huge ship and still take a swarm of starfighters.

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I like the idea of epic, but IMHO FFG screwed up the rules for large ships, namely the way they suffer hits from tiny fighters. That's just not the way I expected it to work. It should be kinda mandatory to bring bombers or other heavy secondary weapons to fight a huge ship, instead the best tactic I experienced was lots of Interceptors. Finished a corvette in 3 turns with 6 ceptors. We had enough points left for a tie screen that kept most of his escort busy. It was sad to see the rules work like that, I would have loved to be forced to take some bombers (that would be like an objective in its own, to bring down the huge ship you have to get the bombers in range, so the escort will try to kill your bombers while you try to protect them). We will probably house rule the way huge ships take damage from non-huge primary weapons to get to that point (something like half damage round down while shields are up, and crits not counting at all). That should encourage the usage of secondary weapons (missiles and torpedoes, heavy laser cannon)

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I like the idea of epic, but IMHO FFG screwed up the rules for large ships, namely the way they suffer hits from tiny fighters. That's just not the way I expected it to work. It should be kinda mandatory to bring bombers or other heavy secondary weapons to fight a huge ship, instead the best tactic I experienced was lots of Interceptors. Finished a corvette in 3 turns with 6 ceptors. We had enough points left for a tie screen that kept most of his escort busy. It was sad to see the rules work like that, I would have loved to be forced to take some bombers (that would be like an objective in its own, to bring down the huge ship you have to get the bombers in range, so the escort will try to kill your bombers while you try to protect them). We will probably house rule the way huge ships take damage from non-huge primary weapons to get to that point (something like half damage round down while shields are up, and crits not counting at all). That should encourage the usage of secondary weapons (missiles and torpedoes, heavy laser cannon)

You raise a good point.  It is nothing like the movies.  Lasers should bounce off.  Or do a max of one damage to shields.  And huge ships shouldn't be able to crush small ones.  Why is it asteroids which are definitely not soft objects do max one damage while huge ships can kill an undamaged Falcon or Decimator if they overlap?

Edited by ralpher

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The rebels have 2 and the other 2 factions 0. Raider still makes it 2-1-0. Armada will probably kill off any real hope of epic being a thing unless FFG rolls out an epic ship for 2/3 factions every year.

Longer, more expensive, less dynamic, another game that perhaps better represents it... Not looking good.

I just posted an Idea to loan the S&V a ship along with some non-unique titles to give the S&V some huge ship flexibility that fits quite well with S&V theme IMHO.

 

You can view the thread HERE. I'm sure you will find these proposals to be most inclusive to our kind of Scum. ;)

Just saw that. Will read soon...ish

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I've been toying with a campaign-based game that would include Epic fights. To make the big ships (of which each team gets 1 for the entire campaign) more strategically precious, I'm thinking of making the hulls have the 're-enforce' rule against all attacks, so they automatically negate 1 damage per hit against the hull.

 

Suddenly TIE swarms have a hard day scratching the paint. The Good Hope gets a little problematic, though. ;)

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I've been toying with a campaign-based game that would include Epic fights. To make the big ships (of which each team gets 1 for the entire campaign) more strategically precious, I'm thinking of making the hulls have the 're-enforce' rule against all attacks, so they automatically negate 1 damage per hit against the hull.

 

Suddenly TIE swarms have a hard day scratching the paint. The Good Hope gets a little problematic, though. ;)

Way back when, before Huge ships were announced, I'd designed a Nebulon B with armor. Basically: an always-on Reinforce token. I'm not sure why they made the decision they did.

I also think they should FAQ Reinforce to cover the whole bloody ship. If that action is my only way to generate defense, I should have a bit more to it.

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Naw, I can see the point of it being 'pick a half'; it means big ships have to worry about the positional game too - in this case, keeping one end less vulnerable than the other. Else a Tantive could simply always have Re-enforce always on, until you needed to recharge your shields.

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the cr90 should have been dual faction...

I disagree, mate. I know that Empire used the CR90s just like they used Nebulons (which was originally an imperial ship), but I really think they should keep those factions 100% separate in terms of models and aesthetics. Tantive IV was the only CR90 we saw in movies and it belonged to the rebels. It follows the rebel design and even colour schemes much, much better than imperial, so it would only ruin the uniformity of imperial forces with it's design.

Also - the fewer shared faction ships the better - FFG will have to make mirrors/equivalents of each instead of making one with 2 sets of cards and calling it a day. Only acceptable case are the Scums, because they were known for using various ships from both factions, but even then they didn't get the X-wings and TIE bombers and Fighters even though various cartels used to field those in larger numbers all over the galaxy.

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The rebels have 2 and the other 2 factions 0. Raider still makes it 2-1-0. Armada will probably kill off any real hope of epic being a thing unless FFG rolls out an epic ship for 2/3 factions every year.

Longer, more expensive, less dynamic, another game that perhaps better represents it... Not looking good.

I just posted an Idea to loan the S&V a ship along with some non-unique titles to give the S&V some huge ship flexibility that fits quite well with S&V theme IMHO.

 

You can view the thread HERE. I'm sure you will find these proposals to be most inclusive to our kind of Scum. ;)

Just saw that. Will read soon...ish

 

Well I have made some changes to include adding some modified tiles that can be placed over the GR-75 base to make it a scum base. Gabe69velasquez says he is working on some better Photoshop work for the card so there is some progress in making this home-brew kit for a scum huge ship a tangible thing.

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Will epic play take off? Eventually, yes, probably. But it is a bit early to cry out "I'm almost there!". Even after the last buff the rebel corvette is not pulling its weight. The imperial raider does not address this imbalance, as the way to go against huge ships are ships with three green dice which the rebels are lacking. They could have killed two birds with a stone in giving huge ships a better shield against laser only and thus giving ordnance a function, but this boat has sailed. FFG is always doing the right thing, but not without exploring other possibilities first.

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I like the idea of epic, but IMHO FFG screwed up the rules for large ships, namely the way they suffer hits from tiny fighters. That's just not the way I expected it to work. It should be kinda mandatory to bring bombers or other heavy secondary weapons to fight a huge ship, instead the best tactic I experienced was lots of Interceptors. Finished a corvette in 3 turns with 6 ceptors. We had enough points left for a tie screen that kept most of his escort busy. It was sad to see the rules work like that, I would have loved to be forced to take some bombers (that would be like an objective in its own, to bring down the huge ship you have to get the bombers in range, so the escort will try to kill your bombers while you try to protect them). We will probably house rule the way huge ships take damage from non-huge primary weapons to get to that point (something like half damage round down while shields are up, and crits not counting at all). That should encourage the usage of secondary weapons (missiles and torpedoes, heavy laser cannon)

 

Is that a problem with Epic or with ordnance? 

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Personally, I don't really like the look of Armada.  It may play well, but it just doesn't have the same feeling that X-Wing does.  Maybe Epic won't work for everyone, and I don't expect it to see a huge tournament scene... way too long to setup and execute.  But, it is great for attracting people to the game and for team play.  Actually, it is easy to teach someone how to play by handing them three or four ships and help them participate in an Epic battle... especially one with objectives, not just a "kill them all".  

 

One of these days I'm going to go for a 1/270 Imperial Class-I Star Destroyer on the ceiling.  That it will be 12' wide and 19' long may make some of it difficult, but it would make Epic games feel way more epic... too bad I don't own a store, cause that would make tournaments (even 100 point ones) way more fun.  Maybe when I retire...

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Epic is special just for the 300 point crafting space. I'd play sans huge ship epic no problem if I was forced to. You can flesh out your missile division, your multi-purpose main force, your tanks and a specialist flanker section, which is impossible to pay for it all with a measly 100 points.

 

The loads of people waiting for the imperial huge ship are missing out on some wicked good games.

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