TIE Bombers too fast

[kinnison 850]

Speed 4. and 5 hit points?

 

Granted only 1 black.  but this makes it as durable as an X-wing, and faster then all the rebel fighters but the A-wing.   Put Rhymer surrounded by TIE Advanced (with escort) and you got plenty of black dice to rip through most rebel ships after a squadron command

 

Really hating this, and it is only wave 1

 

The rebels really have nothing to counter this.

 

 

[Toqtamish 3,643]

I think it's a little early to say rebels have nothing that counter this. 

[Beatty 1,730]

I think this is a little early to call it. Yes the Empire has some nice ships but I remember when everyone was worried that the Rebels were going to have Too much of an advantage with three different ships having Bomber. And of they drop their points into a bunch of bombers tie them up after they leave their capital's command range.

We will see more in the next few weeks but there will be counters for sure.

[Beatty 1,730]

I think it's a little early to say rebels have nothing that counter this.

Where'd that Ninja come from?

[TrentL 53]

I do agree they shouldn't be as fast as Tie Fighters ...

Rebels do have alot of ships with good anti squadron dice ... Rhymer is going to be a ***** to deal with I'm not sure how to get through them. I'm guessing some Awings will help with anti-squadron dice.

[ficklegreendice 34,362]

Speed 4. and 5 hit points?

 

Granted only 1 black.  but this makes it as durable as an X-wing, and faster then all the rebel fighters but the A-wing.   Put Rhymer surrounded by TIE Advanced (with escort) and you got plenty of black dice to rip through most rebel ships after a squadron command

 

Really hating this, and it is only wave 1

 

The rebels really have nothing to counter this.

 

anti-squadron armament --> maximum of 1 damage

 

need a counter? Literally any squadron that isn't a Y (heavy) will do. I know they have tie advance escorts, but the non-vader advance kinda suck in terms of offense (so hey, parallel to xwing minis ), hitting as hard as a tie fighter for almost 150% the cost. The points wrapped in them and bombers means either your squadrons will win an engagement or something is going horribly wrong.

I mean, we have A-wings for speed 5 and all we're missing out on is the extra crit on certain faces, only As also get an anti-squadron armament that isn't the worst in the game + counter

Edited May 15, 2015 by ficklegreendice

[kinnison 850]

oh, and since I am in the process of unboxing.  The VSD unique "Corrupter" exasperates this problem.  Now they can move and attack at speed 5 when activated by a command dial.  only way i see to counter this is to use an A-wing to engage them to prevent  them from moving

Edited May 15, 2015 by kinnison

[Kimbo81 38]

counter this by getting your fighters in there and engage them

[TrentL 53]

I agree you are going to have to move fighter cover in front of them and then hope you can drive your 5 speed awings into his 5 speed (When activated by squadron) bombers ... its going to be pretty crazy I don;t think you'll get around taking a single round of heavy bomber fighter

[HalberdLeader 30]

Ok so Rhymer (16pnts) with 2 tie advanced (24 pnts) and 4 bombers comes out to 76 points. In a 300 point game where the empire is maxing out squad points that leaves enough for 3 ties.

How do you counter this? 6 a wings 66 pnts. Hit the ties and escorts first and lock down the bombers. Once the advanced are gone rhymers circus are taking regular and counter attacks for days.

[Chucknuckle 2,811]

It's a bit strange that FFG thought that bombers should be Speed 4...

[Nagash1959 94]

They're nice, but there are multiple problems with bombers. First off, as they are Heavy they are useless for defense, so if someone maxes out on bombers they also reduce their own anti-squadron effectiveness. A few games will get played with a swarm of bombers just to watch X Wings slip by and tear up more expensive VSDs.

While they are quick and tough they can't put up a fight. If engaged without backup from another squadron it will take the whole game to get themselves free. Yes, they can be quick and possibly get off a good shot early on, but that will just be bouncing off shields if they zoom out too early. I think a lot of folks are going to try and over-abuse Corruptor's speed bonus and end up with bombers out of Command range and locked in engagements. They'll be better used mid-to-late game on ships that already have their shields removed so that each of the bombers single die attack can actually land points against the hull, but at that point the speed isn't going to be *such* a major factor as everyone will be close in. 

So yeah, they do have speed....but it's actually not a really great thing for them to use all the time. 

 

[Toburk 72]

The Tie bombers have to be fast to function, otherwise they would be rather useless. Bomber squadrons work differently for Rebels and Imperials.

 

For Rebels, the Y-wing flies directly towards the big Imperial capital ships and has it's X-wing escorts blast a path through the fighter screen, while the B-wing acts as area denial brutally punishing enemy ships that try to close with you (have a problem with a particular GSD build? B-wings hard counter it).

 

For Imperials, the Tie bomber doubles both as a long range weapon and a means to counter flanking attempts to make up for the VSD's lack of maneuverability.

 

So if you were expecting that you could just do laps around a Star Destroyer at speed 3-4 and not have to deal with squadrons, yea I can see how you could be disappointed.

[Rithrin 222]

Yeah, A-Wings are really good counters for TIE Bombers. If the Bombers' escorts can't kill off the A-Wings, you don't even want to activate the Bombers because rolling 1 die to suffer a 2 dice free counter attack is immensely depressing. Admiral Chiraneau can be put on a ship to allow the Bombers to escape an engagement, but then the Bombers are stuck hugging whichever ship he's on. And even then, moving out of engagement range from the A-Wings means they're probably not in range of Rhymer's ability anymore.

Edited May 15, 2015 by Rithrin

[Joker Two 639]

Rhymer will force an interesting squadron dance in the opening rounds.  Keep him outside medium range by extending your fighter screen, but risk giving your opponent the first strike in the dogfights?  Or eat the first volley to get the drop on them?

[R22 1,079]

While I agree that TIE/B's feel slightly eskew, it does accomplish something. Squadrons in this game, while not the focus, will be tense. There's a rush to get in position, not get blocked, set up escort lanes, and everything. The altered stats make TIE/Bs a threat and must be immediately reckoned with. It creates urgency, underscoring the game's focus on making the 6 rounds fast paced. I think FFG is showing itself as willing to skew things a bit for the sake of the 6 round game premise. That's not a bad thing I think. Because TIE/Bs are supposed to be massive anti-ship threats capable of popping off a few shots to devastating effect. Rebel CAP would have to deal with them immediately. They're stat'ed up to that effect.

 

It's the B-wings I don't really get.

[Perakkir 108]

Yeah, real TiE Bombers are way slower....

[Corellian Corvette 1,733]

I don't want to suggest anything TOO crazy, but we might need to resort to using the A-wing as an interceptor...

to intercept the bombers...

huh

[Alkaid 11]

Even though I agree "realistically" in-universe the bombers should be no faster than the Y-Wings, I also agree the slight extra speed is probably good for gameplay. As mentioned, it does make them more able to chase down fast Rebel ships thinking they can zoom by and flank a Star Destroyer with little resistance.

 

I also think it helps them thematically.. though probably not intended. They may usually be slow, but they have a habit of dropping in unexpectedly in the things I've watched/played.

It reminds me of missions like in Rogue Squadron II during the Battle of Endor level, when all of a sudden a huge mob of TIE Bombers pops up by surprise and bears down on the Rebel ships.

 

"Those bombers are going after the medical frigate!"

[Killionaire 128]

Think of it this way. What are the rebel fighters?

A fighter-bomber, a bomber, a heavy bomber, and an interceptor.

 

What are the imperial fighters?

A throw-away fighter, an interceptor, a fighter, and a bomber.

 

If not for the TIE Bomber, larger rebel ships (who already have superior anti-fighter guns) have very little to fear from Imperial fighter craft. This allows the imperials to have at least some option to threaten rebel capitals, if they gain space superiority. The speed of the Tie/B makes perfect sense for it's role: As a fast bomber to compensate for the sluggishness of Imperial warships, while the rebel craft all have extra punch to compensate for the need for more firepower to engage star destroyers.

[DScipio 812]

I am very fine with speed 4 for the TIE-Bomber. The TIEs are meant to be fast and agile. And even a TIE-Bomber is as agile as an X-Wing.

 

However Hull 5 is a bit much for my taste. 4 or even 3 would have fit better.

 

I still dont see or understand how FFG reflects the Agility of a fightercraft at all....

[ficklegreendice 34,362]

the tie bomber is arguably more durable than the x-wing in x-wing minis (6 hull over 2 shields 3 hull)

 

so...maybe it's just as tough a craft overall

as for the agility, I suppose they just don't matter at this scale. The manuevers that set them apart in skirmishes are just irrelevant when we have capital ships colliding and all those lasers flying. At that point, all we have is their raw speed.

[GrandMoffMatt 958]

Wedge, Escort Frigate, and some other stuff.  I think they can deal with them.

[DScipio 812]

the tie bomber is arguably more durable than the x-wing in x-wing minis (6 hull over 2 shields 3 hull)

 

so...maybe it's just as tough a craft overall

as for the agility, I suppose they just don't matter at this scale. The manuevers that set them apart in skirmishes are just irrelevant when we have capital ships colliding and all those lasers flying. At that point, all we have is their raw speed.

 

Double the hull of an X-Wing is also a lot and to much ... oh wait its 50 Ru for the TIE/sa Bomber, 20 Ru for the T-65 Xwing. So its really a lot more. But I agility is alos importan on that scale because thats how TIEs (and A-Wings) survive at all...

[Jo Jo 4,808]

Yeah, real TiE Bombers are way slower....

 

 

I think this is one where gameplay outweighed the fluff. I was really surprised to see the Tie Bomber had 4 speed. In the games a Tie Fighter was considerably faster than a Bomber. An X-wing had no problem catching up to a Tie Bomber.