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Desslok

You dont know what you have until it's gone!

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You know, there's a lot to process...

 

I could see the FFG SWRPG system be turned into a generic RPG system, with a broader set of skills and a number of different specializations that, at least in the core rules, could be generalized, with sourcebooks for different genres, like western, horror, fantasy, sci-fi, etc. Granted, if FFG's present approach is anything to go by, we could see a ton of separate games that all run on the same mechanic. FFG Sci-fi, FFG fantasy, FFG mystery...there would be so many copies of rules, skills and talents that everyone could reference the same rule in a different book and get the same answer! ;)

 

Anyway...I think one of the nice things about RPGs is that there are different systems for every taste, and I think all of them have something to offer. For instance, Call of Cthulhu by Chaosium is a much different beast than any version of the SWRPG. It's slower, built on research and exploration rather than all-out combat. Also, combat against any of the Great Old Ones, Outer Gods or their Servitors is generally very, very bad. Also lethal.

 

Veteran Star Wars players should be full aware of this. I have a huge library of West End Games' D6 system, and I have fond memories about running it, even if my players eventually got so powerful they could shoot a blaster bolt down the barrel of an AT-AT walker's side gun or move space transports with the Force, among several other things.

 

The d20 version was...very D&D 3e at first, and I have to admit I don't know of anyone who really liked it. However, the Revised d20 system I thought was great. Characters had limits that they didn't have in the D6 system, but they could do some interesting things with feats, and each class had enough cool stuff it could do that no one really got bored. Of course, then there were the prestige classes to really make players feel special...and to let them know when an NPC was a serious threat. It wasn't perfect, but I did like seeing my players worrying about making saves and their hit point totals. Granted, it wasn't perfect, the Vitality Point/Wound Point split never really worked, in my opinion, and Reputation system was so cumbersome most people just didn't bother with it...although one of my players used it to get a co-pilot and mechanic for the group's ship.

 

Then came the Saga system, which...well, honestly, I really didn't like it. It was too minis-focused, for my taste, and while it did have some good parts, overall I was unimpressed. It tried to fill two niches and failed at both of them. You absolutely couldn't play it without minis and a gridded map, and the skills were so rigidly defined that thinking outside the box was pretty hard! I still remember when my players wanted to kludge together a makeshift bomb and use the Force to move it towards a Sith Lord. There was no mention of how to use something like Demolition or Mechanics to do something like that, and no guidelines on improvised weapons. It darn near derailed the game for that night. 

 

Having said that...I loved the idea that you could customize your character with Talents and Feats, even if it was hard to distinguish between the two. Saga also made the Feats mean something, and I have to admit the approach they took to multiple attacks worked quite well.

 

Now we have FFG, which is radically different from any of the other games which came before it, yet still has elements of all of them. Destiny Points, for one. Talents, for another. Heck, even the current Force power design has echoes of the d6 and d20 versions.

 

My point is there are a lot of systems out there, and a lot of them have at least something to recommend to them. Even famously quirky systems like Palladium RPGs can be a lot of fun, and it's worth getting to play them at least once.

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Yeah thats what i would have done to. (and dope slap the GM :D)

 

That reminds me, I never got around to doing  this (yet) but i was planning of making some type of muscular fighter style character and get him killed (in some heroic fashion) each game session and then play the exact same character with a different name.

 

NPC: "We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese"

 

"Punch Sideiron"

 

"Beat Punchbeef"

 

"Crud Bonemeal"

 

"Dirk Hardpeck"

 

"Fist Rockbone"

 

"Hack Blowfist"

 

"Slate Fistcrunch"

 

"Bob Johnson"- no wait...

 

 

I remember falling out of my chair the first time I watched "Space Mutiny". The sad part is, I can actually see some of these becoming canon villain names in Star Wars.

Edited by Bren Mastigar

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I think I'm soon to be in this boat.

Three of the players in my game are graduating and going to university and they want to finish their Pathfinder game before they do. That's all but me! One of them, being my boyfriend, really wants me to try it again. And he's off to uni in September and I don't even want to think about it and I can't say no. Ugh. Triple dog ugh.

Given your vision issues, not sure how you handle the tactical movement requirements of the game :(

I can't. The first rpg I tried was Pathfinder and It was almost my last. I don't know how it is supposed to be better but they're saying it will be.

Play a spell caster that likes area of effect spells? Big enough fireball and you don't have to see a target to hit a target.

Seriously though, I can see fine and I can't play pathfinder. I truly refuse to play that game.

The whole group loves it. Except me. I tried it but the other players ended up figuring out what my move was, moving my character, calculating the gazillion modifiers and stuff and handing me dice so I could roll them then they would readi the dice for me!!

I have Braille dice now so I can at least do that last bit myself.

Being blind is only part of the problem. I had never played an rpg before trying that Pathfinder game and they were 13th level. I was overwhelmed right away.

 

Which I suspect is going to be the same problem again. Have you told them why this won't be fun for you. As in you can't really run your own turn because you can't see to do the tactical movement. You can't see to do your own mods, and while you can now read your own dice. That is not exactly giving you player agency. So while Pathfinder is a lovely game. It is not exactly conducive to the person who can't participate in a major portion of the game in any meaningful way. Cause pointing this out to the group who may not have thought of this issue from your perspective might be helpful. 

Being a sighted player I never really thought about the fact that games like D&D and Pathfinder are not very conducive to blind players. And yet by doing the game the way FFG has actually makes it work pretty well cause other than reading dice you don't really have much in your way.

Out of curiosity what does your character sheet look like? 

 

 

I had an interesting conversation with my dad last night...

 

I never hid my problems with Pathfinder so they all know. At the same time, they're all graduating and are headed to different schools. I hate to think about it but who knows if this group will ever get to play a game together again? They were playing this Pathfinder game with my dad as gm for EVER! At least 5 years. And they were nearing its end. I don't want to be the reason they never got to finish. I don't want to be that kind of person.

 

I have two character sheets. One is in Braille. This isn't as perfect a solution as you might think. You really can't update it during play so I use a tablet (where I am rolling my dice, anyway) to write in changes like gear I pick up, drop, money, etc. The other is whatever Oggdude's thingie prints because no one else in my group reads Braille. The GM holds onto it and helps me keep myself organized. I can't say that I have any clue what it looks like, though. :P Except that I know it has symbols that look like the dice on it. On my Braille sheet, those are just letters. Probably obvious but G, Y, B for good dice. P, R, K for stinky dice.

 

So, the conversation with my dad was about this subject. And he said he was working on that. He's going to have the game mat thing pasted down onto a sheet of metal and ordered a bunch of neodymium magnets. All of the miniatures and scenery pieces will have magnets in them. He's going to bend pipe cleaners for walls and such and they'll stick down with magnets, too. If you've ever played with neodymium magnets, you'll know just how strong their attraction is. You can easily turn the game mat upside down and nothing would fall off.

 

The idea is that I'm going to be able to touch everything to get relative positions. The magnets will make sure I'm not just knocking everything over like a spaz. Once I figure out what things feel like, that's going to be a MAJOR improvement. Not perfect... but better.

 

I am guessing braille to help you identify what is what?

I must say your dad came up with a clever solution.

Ask your dad to take pictures for us so we can see :)

Edited by Daeglan

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I had an interesting conversation with my dad last night...

 

I never hid my problems with Pathfinder so they all know. At the same time, they're all graduating and are headed to different schools. I hate to think about it but who knows if this group will ever get to play a game together again? They were playing this Pathfinder game with my dad as gm for EVER! At least 5 years. And they were nearing its end. I don't want to be the reason they never got to finish. I don't want to be that kind of person.

 

I have two character sheets. One is in Braille. This isn't as perfect a solution as you might think. You really can't update it during play so I use a tablet (where I am rolling my dice, anyway) to write in changes like gear I pick up, drop, money, etc. The other is whatever Oggdude's thingie prints because no one else in my group reads Braille. The GM holds onto it and helps me keep myself organized. I can't say that I have any clue what it looks like, though. :P Except that I know it has symbols that look like the dice on it. On my Braille sheet, those are just letters. Probably obvious but G, Y, B for good dice. P, R, K for stinky dice.

 

So, the conversation with my dad was about this subject. And he said he was working on that. He's going to have the game mat thing pasted down onto a sheet of metal and ordered a bunch of neodymium magnets. All of the miniatures and scenery pieces will have magnets in them. He's going to bend pipe cleaners for walls and such and they'll stick down with magnets, too. If you've ever played with neodymium magnets, you'll know just how strong their attraction is. You can easily turn the game mat upside down and nothing would fall off.

 

The idea is that I'm going to be able to touch everything to get relative positions. The magnets will make sure I'm not just knocking everything over like a spaz. Once I figure out what things feel like, that's going to be a MAJOR improvement. Not perfect... but better.

Haley, can you do me a favour? Give your dad a high five for me. This is an awesome example of what being a dad (or mum) is about.

Letting them finish the campaign, despite your situation, is also awesome if you. I sincerely hope you have some fun.

K don't know if if would help, but attaching a small circle of sandpaper, like what you would get from a hole punch, to the base of the mini might be an easy wish to differentiate a villianous mini from an ally.

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I think I'm soon to be in this boat.

Three of the players in my game are graduating and going to university and they want to finish their Pathfinder game before they do. That's all but me! One of them, being my boyfriend, really wants me to try it again. And he's off to uni in September and I don't even want to think about it and I can't say no. Ugh. Triple dog ugh.

Given your vision issues, not sure how you handle the tactical movement requirements of the game :(

I can't. The first rpg I tried was Pathfinder and It was almost my last. I don't know how it is supposed to be better but they're saying it will be.

Play a spell caster that likes area of effect spells? Big enough fireball and you don't have to see a target to hit a target.

Seriously though, I can see fine and I can't play pathfinder. I truly refuse to play that game.

The whole group loves it. Except me. I tried it but the other players ended up figuring out what my move was, moving my character, calculating the gazillion modifiers and stuff and handing me dice so I could roll them then they would readi the dice for me!!

I have Braille dice now so I can at least do that last bit myself.

Being blind is only part of the problem. I had never played an rpg before trying that Pathfinder game and they were 13th level. I was overwhelmed right away.

 

Which I suspect is going to be the same problem again. Have you told them why this won't be fun for you. As in you can't really run your own turn because you can't see to do the tactical movement. You can't see to do your own mods, and while you can now read your own dice. That is not exactly giving you player agency. So while Pathfinder is a lovely game. It is not exactly conducive to the person who can't participate in a major portion of the game in any meaningful way. Cause pointing this out to the group who may not have thought of this issue from your perspective might be helpful. 

Being a sighted player I never really thought about the fact that games like D&D and Pathfinder are not very conducive to blind players. And yet by doing the game the way FFG has actually makes it work pretty well cause other than reading dice you don't really have much in your way.

Out of curiosity what does your character sheet look like? 

 

 

I had an interesting conversation with my dad last night...

 

I never hid my problems with Pathfinder so they all know. At the same time, they're all graduating and are headed to different schools. I hate to think about it but who knows if this group will ever get to play a game together again? They were playing this Pathfinder game with my dad as gm for EVER! At least 5 years. And they were nearing its end. I don't want to be the reason they never got to finish. I don't want to be that kind of person.

 

I have two character sheets. One is in Braille. This isn't as perfect a solution as you might think. You really can't update it during play so I use a tablet (where I am rolling my dice, anyway) to write in changes like gear I pick up, drop, money, etc. The other is whatever Oggdude's thingie prints because no one else in my group reads Braille. The GM holds onto it and helps me keep myself organized. I can't say that I have any clue what it looks like, though. :P Except that I know it has symbols that look like the dice on it. On my Braille sheet, those are just letters. Probably obvious but G, Y, B for good dice. P, R, K for stinky dice.

 

So, the conversation with my dad was about this subject. And he said he was working on that. He's going to have the game mat thing pasted down onto a sheet of metal and ordered a bunch of neodymium magnets. All of the miniatures and scenery pieces will have magnets in them. He's going to bend pipe cleaners for walls and such and they'll stick down with magnets, too. If you've ever played with neodymium magnets, you'll know just how strong their attraction is. You can easily turn the game mat upside down and nothing would fall off.

 

The idea is that I'm going to be able to touch everything to get relative positions. The magnets will make sure I'm not just knocking everything over like a spaz. Once I figure out what things feel like, that's going to be a MAJOR improvement. Not perfect... but better.

 

I am guessing braille to help you identify what is what?

I must say your dad came up with a clever solution.

Ask your dad to take pictures for us so we can see :)

 

 

My dad is cleaver... often to my dismay. :P

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I had an interesting conversation with my dad last night...

 

I never hid my problems with Pathfinder so they all know. At the same time, they're all graduating and are headed to different schools. I hate to think about it but who knows if this group will ever get to play a game together again? They were playing this Pathfinder game with my dad as gm for EVER! At least 5 years. And they were nearing its end. I don't want to be the reason they never got to finish. I don't want to be that kind of person.

 

I have two character sheets. One is in Braille. This isn't as perfect a solution as you might think. You really can't update it during play so I use a tablet (where I am rolling my dice, anyway) to write in changes like gear I pick up, drop, money, etc. The other is whatever Oggdude's thingie prints because no one else in my group reads Braille. The GM holds onto it and helps me keep myself organized. I can't say that I have any clue what it looks like, though. :P Except that I know it has symbols that look like the dice on it. On my Braille sheet, those are just letters. Probably obvious but G, Y, B for good dice. P, R, K for stinky dice.

 

So, the conversation with my dad was about this subject. And he said he was working on that. He's going to have the game mat thing pasted down onto a sheet of metal and ordered a bunch of neodymium magnets. All of the miniatures and scenery pieces will have magnets in them. He's going to bend pipe cleaners for walls and such and they'll stick down with magnets, too. If you've ever played with neodymium magnets, you'll know just how strong their attraction is. You can easily turn the game mat upside down and nothing would fall off.

 

The idea is that I'm going to be able to touch everything to get relative positions. The magnets will make sure I'm not just knocking everything over like a spaz. Once I figure out what things feel like, that's going to be a MAJOR improvement. Not perfect... but better.

Haley, can you do me a favour? Give your dad a high five for me. This is an awesome example of what being a dad (or mum) is about.

Letting them finish the campaign, despite your situation, is also awesome if you. I sincerely hope you have some fun.

K don't know if if would help, but attaching a small circle of sandpaper, like what you would get from a hole punch, to the base of the mini might be an easy wish to differentiate a villianous mini from an ally.

 

 

I'll bring up that idea, TBP. It's a good one. Who knows? Maybe I'll start playing X-Wing next. :D

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Haley, it's pretty cool that your dad is setting up something like that! 

 

I'm curious, do you have custom Edge dice in braille too?  Or just the standard d4-20 set?

 

Just the regulars. My uncle has a 3D printer and made them. He was supposed to make Edge dice for me, too, but he's sorta the forgetful genius. He could probably invent hyperspace and travel across the galaxy but he'd forget how to get home.

 

I use the ios app on an iPad. I can't read them but I can build the pool and roll them. Most of the time, anyway.

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 Who knows? Maybe I'll start playing X-Wing next. :D

 

 

Oh god, don't do that. Once you open that bottle, the genie is NEVER going back in! You'll be buying minis like they were made of pure crack!

 

Hi! My name is Matt, and I'm addicted to Star Wars miniatures.

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 Who knows? Maybe I'll start playing X-Wing next. :D

 

 

Oh god, don't do that. Once you open that bottle, the genie is NEVER going back in! You'll be buying minis like they were made of pure crack!

 

Is it bad that I have full squadrons worth of various ship types so I can field a full squadron of x-wing for example?

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 Who knows? Maybe I'll start playing X-Wing next. :D

 

 

Oh god, don't do that. Once you open that bottle, the genie is NEVER going back in! You'll be buying minis like they were made of pure crack!

 

Is it bad that I have full squadrons worth of various ship types so I can field a full squadron of x-wing for example?

 

Not bad.. just dedicated..

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So, the conversation with my dad was about this subject. And he said he was working on that. He's going to have the game mat thing pasted down onto a sheet of metal and ordered a bunch of neodymium magnets. All of the miniatures and scenery pieces will have magnets in them. He's going to bend pipe cleaners for walls and such and they'll stick down with magnets, too. If you've ever played with neodymium magnets, you'll know just how strong their attraction is. You can easily turn the game mat upside down and nothing would fall off.

 

The idea is that I'm going to be able to touch everything to get relative positions. The magnets will make sure I'm not just knocking everything over like a spaz. Once I figure out what things feel like, that's going to be a MAJOR improvement. Not perfect... but better.

This kind of thing is why I love reading about the games you play, and the part that your dad has in this process.

I’m nearly 50, but I’ve never had children. I met my wife later in life, and we’ve always said that we have cats, not kids.

However, if I did have kids, I would hope that they would be something like you, and I would hope to be something like your dad.

Thank you.

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Just the regulars. My uncle has a 3D printer and made them. He was supposed to make Edge dice for me, too, but he's sorta the forgetful genius. He could probably invent hyperspace and travel across the galaxy but he'd forget how to get home.

 

I use the ios app on an iPad. I can't read them but I can build the pool and roll them. Most of the time, anyway.

You know, I think we can fix this problem. We’d need to come up with a simple 3D design for Edge dice in Braille, but then we can upload them to Shapeways and have them print as many as you want. And that doesn’t have to be too excessively expensive.

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So, the conversation with my dad was about this subject. And he said he was working on that. He's going to have the game mat thing pasted down onto a sheet of metal and ordered a bunch of neodymium magnets. All of the miniatures and scenery pieces will have magnets in them. He's going to bend pipe cleaners for walls and such and they'll stick down with magnets, too. If you've ever played with neodymium magnets, you'll know just how strong their attraction is. You can easily turn the game mat upside down and nothing would fall off. The idea is that I'm going to be able to touch everything to get relative positions. The magnets will make sure I'm not just knocking everything over like a spaz. Once I figure out what things feel like, that's going to be a MAJOR improvement. Not perfect... but better.

This kind of thing is why I love reading about the games you play, and the part that your dad has in this process.I’m nearly 50, but I’ve never had children. I met my wife later in life, and we’ve always said that we have cats, not kids.However, if I did have kids, I would hope that they would be something like you, and I would hope to be something like your dad.Thank you.

Wow. I am beyond words to describe just how this made me feel. I hope that wow did the trick. TYSM.

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Just the regulars. My uncle has a 3D printer and made them. He was supposed to make Edge dice for me, too, but he's sorta the forgetful genius. He could probably invent hyperspace and travel across the galaxy but he'd forget how to get home. I use the ios app on an iPad. I can't read them but I can build the pool and roll them. Most of the time, anyway.

You know, I think we can fix this problem. We’d need to come up with a simple 3D design for Edge dice in Braille, but then we can upload them to Shapeways and have them print as many as you want. And that doesn’t have to be too excessively expensive.

I know there is at least one more blind player reading these forums who might benefit from this. His entire group is blind with only one player having enough remaining sight to read the dice. They were trying to find an electronic solution. I'm not sure which is better. I get that rolling dice is more fun but reading the results might slow things down too much. Having the dice is more about what I'm able to do if I want to versus what I would normally do.

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They were trying to find an electronic solution. I'm not sure which is better. I get that rolling dice is more fun but reading the results might slow things down too much.

 

Yes, rolling physical dice has a certain ineffable charm that can't be captured with a computer; but in this case an electronic solution would be ideal.

 

What would be perfect for the sight-impaired is if someone created a dice-rolling program with the option to have the results read out in speech.  You enter the dice pool using a blind-friendly tactile keyboard (or, perhaps, speak it through voice recognition software, if that could be made to work reliably) and then the computer says in response, "2 successes, 1 advantage, 1 despair".

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What would be perfect for the sight-impaired is if someone created a dice-rolling program with the option to have the results read out in speech.  You enter the dice pool using a blind-friendly tactile keyboard (or, perhaps, speak it through voice recognition software, if that could be made to work reliably) and then the computer says in response, "2 successes, 1 advantage, 1 despair".

iOS has built-in accessibility and voice-over features. It’s easy for programmers to enable them.

When I was on a short contract for Apple in Cupertino, we used these features in iOS and Mac OS X to enable us to do automated testing of the in-house software that the group was developing.

We just have to convince the guys at FFG to enable voice-over features.

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I wonder if there's some kind of optical recognition software that could read the face-down face of the die, extrapolate what's showing and read off the result. So you roll on an ipad (or something), and it reads back the result.

 

Mind you, I'm not tech wiz - I'm an idea man. :)

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OCR is tough.  There is a certain amount that can be done locally on the device, but this is still an application that is best handed off to a higher-performance machine with a lot more RAM, a lot more rules to work with, etc….

 

Teaching a general purpose app how to count what is rolled and net out the numbers, that’s pretty hard, too.

 

 

I think this is a situation where the best thing is definitely a computer program that is suitably adapted for the visually challenged, and rolling virtual dice.

 

FFG (and others) have already solved the rolling and netting problem, the trick now is to get them to use the existing methods for handling content in a manner that is ADA-friendly.

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