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Desslok

You dont know what you have until it's gone!

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About a month and a half ago, my group switched over from EotE to a superhero game with the Champions/HERO System. Now, I like the system (even if it is number crunchy) and the campaign is fine - so there's no issues there - but man oh man do I ever miss the FFG engine.

 

We're in a fight and my Samauri/Ninja/Japananese Baddass Kung-Fu Master is running from a Killbot 2000, and just barely staying ahead of it's To-Hit rolls (but not being able to counterattack because of it). And all the while I kept thinking, man if I had some advantage to spend, I could do this thing or that thing - stuff like "I stand right in front of this other robot and dodge out of the way at the last second so that the Killbot 2000 will hit it instead and both robots will start fighting".

 

The GM rolls, I Ninja out of the way and they just go "They missed" and moved onto the next acting person. In my head, I'm thinking "Oh, come on - that's a perfectly awesome plan!"

 

And I miss the vagueness of the system. I much prefer: "I run over to the other side of the room, grab the Macguffin Weapon and throw it at the Killbot!"

 

"Well, it's kind of far away, which means you'll need to take both maneuvers to get there and eat some strain, and technically grabbing something should be another maneuver - but what the hell, I like it. Lets go with it - roll the dice!"

 

versus

 

"The MacGuffin is Y meters away, but you can only move X meters - less if you want to dodge. . . ."

 

Now, like I said, I'm not disparaging the other game (nor claiming that EotE is perfect - I still don't like starfighter combat), and yes, we'll get back to Star Wars here someday, but man do I miss the system sometimes.

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About a month and a half ago, my group switched over from EotE to a superhero game with the Champions/HERO System. Now, I like the system (even if it is number crunchy) and the campaign is fine - so there's no issues there - but man oh man do I ever miss the FFG engine.

 

We're in a fight and my Samauri/Ninja/Japananese Baddass Kung-Fu Master is running from a Killbot 2000, and just barely staying ahead of it's To-Hit rolls (but not being able to counterattack because of it). And all the while I kept thinking, man if I had some advantage to spend, I could do this thing or that thing - stuff like "I stand right in front of this other robot and dodge out of the way at the last second so that the Killbot 2000 will hit it instead and both robots will start fighting".

 

The GM rolls, I Ninja out of the way and they just go "They missed" and moved onto the next acting person. In my head, I'm thinking "Oh, come on - that's a perfectly awesome plan!"

 

And I miss the vagueness of the system. I much prefer: "I run over to the other side of the room, grab the Macguffin Weapon and throw it at the Killbot!"

 

"Well, it's kind of far away, which means you'll need to take both maneuvers to get there and eat some strain, and technically grabbing something should be another maneuver - but what the hell, I like it. Lets go with it - roll the dice!"

 

versus

 

"The MacGuffin is Y meters away, but you can only move X meters - less if you want to dodge. . . ."

 

Now, like I said, I'm not disparaging the other game (nor claiming that EotE is perfect - I still don't like starfighter combat), and yes, we'll get back to Star Wars here someday, but man do I miss the system sometimes.

I played a lot of Champions in the 1980's.  My GM even did work for Hero Games.  In fact, the module To Serve and Protect was actually about our group :)  The system does a great job of evoking comic book action.

 

But... it's been around since the 1980's, and is basically a 2nd generation game, at best.  Even later editions just added on to the original framework; they didn't fundamentally change the game.  FFG's SWRPG had the benefit of 40 years of RPG experience to figure out what works and what doesn't, and to come up with a modern, cool narrative system.  Personally, I think it's the wave of the future, and does its job much better than similar games, such as FATE.  And older games just seem sort of... primitive in comparison :)

 

Like you said, they're still tons of fun to play.  But after leaving Plato's cave, we can't really go back without comparing them to something better.

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Sounds like you need to up your SPD, so that you can go a bit more often, heheh. Yes, every game is different in how the mechanics go, but that is both their strengths and their weaknesses. I know players who just LOVE D&D, because the mechanics allow their character to become practically a god as they progress (wiping out hundreds of kobolds in a single battle and not getting winded, taking on demons and devils, negotiating with angels...). Others that love the simplicity of character generation and diversity of games supported by Pinnacle's Savage Worlds, the number crunchy goodness of GURPS or HERO System. I love hearing the jokes about characters that died during character generation in earlier versions of Traveler.

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I think I'm soon to be in this boat.

Three of the players in my game are graduating and going to university and they want to finish their Pathfinder game before they do. That's all but me! One of them, being my boyfriend, really wants me to try it again. And he's off to uni in September and I don't even want to think about it and I can't say no. Ugh. Triple dog ugh.

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Sounds like you need to up your SPD, so that you can go a bit more often, heheh. Yes, every game is different in how the mechanics go, but that is both their strengths and their weaknesses. I know players who just LOVE D&D, because the mechanics allow their character to become practically a god as they progress (wiping out hundreds of kobolds in a single battle and not getting winded, taking on demons and devils, negotiating with angels...). Others that love the simplicity of character generation and diversity of games supported by Pinnacle's Savage Worlds, the number crunchy goodness of GURPS or HERO System. I love hearing the jokes about characters that died during character generation in earlier versions of Traveler.

I love that minions give you that same feel. 

and you haven't role played till you died in character gen :P

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I think I'm soon to be in this boat.

Three of the players in my game are graduating and going to university and they want to finish their Pathfinder game before they do. That's all but me! One of them, being my boyfriend, really wants me to try it again. And he's off to uni in September and I don't even want to think about it and I can't say no. Ugh. Triple dog ugh.

Given your vision issues, not sure how you handle the tactical movement requirements of the game :(

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and you haven't role played till you died in character gen :P

 

 

My first D&D character was killed during character creation before the first session began. :wacko:

 

How do you die in D&D character gen?

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I think I'm soon to be in this boat.

Three of the players in my game are graduating and going to university and they want to finish their Pathfinder game before they do. That's all but me! One of them, being my boyfriend, really wants me to try it again. And he's off to uni in September and I don't even want to think about it and I can't say no. Ugh. Triple dog ugh.

Given your vision issues, not sure how you handle the tactical movement requirements of the game :(

I can't. The first rpg I tried was Pathfinder and It was almost my last. I don't know how it is supposed to be better but they're saying it will be.

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and you haven't role played till you died in character gen :P

 

 

My first D&D character was killed during character creation before the first session began. :wacko:

 

How do you die in D&D character gen?

 

Well, if the DM really don't like your character concept... :lol:

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I'm still hoping that FFG's system will become popular enough that we will eventually see several genres' (fantasy, hero, modern...) using this system. I would love for it to grow to be as large as d20 in the number of genre's it covers.

 

I'm with you here.  One of my favorite things is how the dice end up doing all the combat variables in one roll - Hit if you succeed, more success add more damage, and you can crit/get creative with the advantages and triumphs, all with just one roll of the dice instead of multiple instances (like D&D/Pathfinder/13th Age).  That being said, we do roll a lot of dice at once to resolve that, and have to do a lot of mental math to figure out the result.

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The only reason d20 became so popular is due to opening the license up allowing other companies to design games using it. I doubt FFG are willing to do the same. So if they use the engine for other games it will need to be done in house which uses resources and costs money. Something which may not be expedient at this time. At best you will see homebrew aeaptions like the western snd Conan ones for now. Down the road, with the success of the game, this may change.

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and you haven't role played till you died in character gen :P

 

 

My first D&D character was killed during character creation before the first session began. :wacko:

 

How do you die in D&D character gen?

 

They must have done a lifepath generator, or a short intro session.  In second edition I ran a game that for character background each player got a 30 minute solo adventure.  Most were pretty uneventful, bu you got to learn a bit about the character.  One player lost paladinhood during the intro session for committing murder, theft and then lying about it when questioned by the guard. The character eventually turned into a Lord of Ravenloft.  Quite the fall.

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Now, like I said, I'm not disparaging the other game (nor claiming that EotE is perfect - I still don't like starfighter combat), and yes, we'll get back to Star Wars here someday, but man do I miss the system sometimes.

 

I hear you.  A friend in my group GMs a fantasy game.  The story is fantastic, the maps amazing, the NPCs well fleshed out, and the self-made art is great.  But the mechanics make me cringe.  Not only is the game binary, if anything he allows even less wiggle room than the game calls for.  The penalties for moving in combat are so egregious, we basically just stand there whacking at each other.  To make things worse, a person parries at the same skill as they attack, and you only hit if your opponent fails to parry or dodge...if you both succeed it's a wash.  This means on any turn you basically have a 90%+ chance of nothing happening at all, and a simple brigand vs knight thing can take half an hour.

 

Funny thing is, the GM seems to like it.  "I know it's just back and forth," he says, "but it's simpler."  I guess we're all enjoying the other aspects of his game too much to challenge it.

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Since my EOTE game has been on hiatus and our F&D Beta game ended, I've been mostly playing the upcoming Feng Shui 2.

 

Although it uses numerical dice, it has a huge narrative flexibility that's built in to the game, so it still supports the kind of stuff you're talking about, Desslok.

 

I agree I think I'd miss it if I went back to a straight success/failure type of game now :)

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Before we started FFG's SWRPG my group played Decipher's Star Trek RPG for a while.  The campaign that the GM created was original and yet still maintained the flavor of Star Trek.  But was really cool was the mechanic.  You rolled 2d6 against a Target Number for difficulty and there were degrees of success and failure rather than the simple pass or fail, allowing the GM some narrative room in describing the results.  The combat rounds were still 6 seconds in length but the weapons were so powerful that a hit from a phaser pistol could be insta-death to anyone, including the PCs, resulting in very quick combat scenarios.

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I'm working on Merging WHFRP 2nd Ed and the Mechanics of Edge together, while retaining what makes Warhammer, Warhammer.

 

I love Warhammer, love the setting, the careers the flavour, but after learning the Edge system to run for my group, and then playing in a Warhammer game... I found the Binary (Black and White) nature of the mechanics really annoying.

 

 

Thankfully, I have a player who can see the probabilities, the maths behind a system, and can break a system if he wants, he has given me ALOT of input, and I think I have a workable system.

 

If people are interested, let me know. I expect ill post it when ive play tested it and worked out a few bugs... it won't be perfect, I am not a game designer, and it would probably only appeal to WH 2nd Ed players who like the Edge system. (Yes I know 3rd Ed uses a 'similar' system. But I refuse to buy an entirely new system for a setting I own all 1st and 2nd Ed books for).

 

If people want a sneak peak, PM me :)

 

RD

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Thanks to FFG, I can't stand any other system!

Me and my friends had all never played RPGs before. The Edge beginner game was the first thing we played and we LOVED it. So then we tried Pathfinder and although we loved the lore we really, really struggled to get into the system. Eventually after just three games and a fully planned storyline and carefully created characters we binned the whole idea. We just couldn't stand how rules heavy it was. We tried again later with new characters and a new story, we lasted one session.

Since then we've also tried the DC super hero role playing game and had the same problem. Nothing feels like FFG Star Wars. Nothing is as fun or as smooth an experience for us.

It makes me wonder how many people are driven away from RPGs because they start with Pathfinder type stuff and just fall asleep like we did. If we started with Pathfinder and not Star Wars I don't know if we'd have ever even tried Edge. I really think FFG should try push their beginner games to people who don't have RPGs on their radar. I've had a couple of people say they love the game but are perplexed why they'd never heard of it until someone introduced them to it. Not that I'd know how they'd even start with that. Ah well.

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Sounds like you need to up your SPD, so that you can go a bit more often, heheh. 

 

Oh sush! I've got a SPD of 5 (and Starting Character syndrome, with far too points and way too much concept to go around) - the Killbot just happened to have a speed of 6.

 

I'm still hoping that FFG's system will become popular enough that we will eventually see several genres' (fantasy, hero, modern...) using this system. I would love for it to grow to be as large as d20 in the number of genre's it covers.

 

I think that a Superhero game might be too diverse power-wise for the engine to handle, but I think it would be perfect for other genres. Fantasy, Spies, horror - yeah, I could totally see those genres.

 

Since my EOTE game has been on hiatus and our F&D Beta game ended, I've been mostly playing the upcoming Feng Shui 2.

 

Although it uses numerical dice, it has a huge narrative flexibility that's built in to the game, so it still supports the kind of stuff you're talking about, Desslok.

 

I'll have to mention it to the group then - we've been looking for a slightly less clunky Superhero engine with variable degrees of success. Mostly it's inertia that keeps us with Hero.

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I think I'm soon to be in this boat.

Three of the players in my game are graduating and going to university and they want to finish their Pathfinder game before they do. That's all but me! One of them, being my boyfriend, really wants me to try it again. And he's off to uni in September and I don't even want to think about it and I can't say no. Ugh. Triple dog ugh.

Given your vision issues, not sure how you handle the tactical movement requirements of the game :(

I can't. The first rpg I tried was Pathfinder and It was almost my last. I don't know how it is supposed to be better but they're saying it will be.

Play a spell caster that likes area of effect spells? Big enough fireball and you don't have to see a target to hit a target.

Seriously though, I can see fine and I can't play pathfinder. I truly refuse to play that game.

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I feel like it wouldn't be that hard to adapt SWRP into a superhero-type concept. Just like in Champions, you can have a power which lets you do blast damage of some kind, but you define it narratively however you would like.

 

Feng Shui 2 is kinda similar--you can be a magician who uses magical blasts and you could define those as flaming bursts of fire coming from your hand, as magical swords appearing and stabbing your enemy, or as tiny animated plush teddy bears crawling out of the ground and punching your target to pieces! Either way it's all just a "Chi Blast"!

 

Personally if I were going for the more street-level kind of superheroics like you see on "Arrow" or "The Flash" (on TV), I'd probably use Feng Shui 2, but I'd love to see it if somebody with more time and ingenuity than me adapted SWRP into superheroes.

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I think I'm soon to be in this boat.

Three of the players in my game are graduating and going to university and they want to finish their Pathfinder game before they do. That's all but me! One of them, being my boyfriend, really wants me to try it again. And he's off to uni in September and I don't even want to think about it and I can't say no. Ugh. Triple dog ugh.

Given your vision issues, not sure how you handle the tactical movement requirements of the game :(

I can't. The first rpg I tried was Pathfinder and It was almost my last. I don't know how it is supposed to be better but they're saying it will be.

Play a spell caster that likes area of effect spells? Big enough fireball and you don't have to see a target to hit a target.

Seriously though, I can see fine and I can't play pathfinder. I truly refuse to play that game.

 

She has to be able to see the board and the minis and the other players to know where it is safe to place the fireball/meteor storm/etc... Doesn't matter the type of character, the player has to deal with the tactics, just like if she were to play WarHammer 40k miniatures game.

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