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InquisitorGray

Were does a RT keep all their thrones?

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So what do you all think, were does a RT keep all the money they make.  Does a RT have a huge room of thrones on their ship, or are they barring their gold on some death world.    I reliease this is not the most important question, but I figured it was a nice distraction from the fact that most of us still do not have the book.

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  I figure most of their money is tied up in stuff.  Their ship, cargo, equipment.....  I suspect they don't keep large amount of thrones around even if they have spare capital instead it's in highly portable goods.  After all thrones most likely aren't worth much out in the Halo...  An Eldar isn't going to sell things for thrones.

 

PS- Given that Orks use Ork teeth as currency.  I could see some RT  having rooms filled with Ork teeth for bribes/trade with freebooters.

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InquisitorGray said:

So what do you all think, were does a RT keep all the money they make.  Does a RT have a huge room of thrones on their ship, or are they barring their gold on some death world.    I reliease this is not the most important question, but I figured it was a nice distraction from the fact that most of us still do not have the book.

 

In a huge oak chest with gold bands reinforcing it.  It's guarded by 5 young female assassins sworn to remain pure until their 25th birthday, at which point their guardianship of the chest if over and another from their order replaces them.

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I seem to recall that in the one of the Black Library Rogue Trader books the family had land or something.  But I feel it is a bit weird for a person wondering the stars to worry about looking over.    I do like the idea of having room full or Ork teeth to trade with.   But I hear they do not last long, so it makes them hard to hold onto.  Though you could always get some more from any Ork Freeboots who are not willing to trade with you...

I also like the idea of digging up another RT's stash of Xenoteck or thrones on some forgotten deathworld.  Who knows, maybe the old RT was being followed by a Inquisitor and had to ditch his stash before he was called a heratic.  From my understanding, RT are alowed to use Xenoteck only outside of Imperial space, since they then come back under Imperial laws.

 

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Usually there's one throne adjacent to each living quarters and eating establishment.  The Rogue Trader has a magnificent solid gold throne, naturally with a plush velvet seat, gold embossed grips and diamond and emerald encrusted magazine rack stocked with the latest three issues of White Dwarf.  Not to mention a team of cherubim to wipe his bottom for him afterwards.

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Clever guys, clever.

Moving on; 40k borrows a lot from the actual Middle Ages where peasents dealt in barter and the obscure currency of tribute and tiefs, middle class citizens (and fantasy RPG adventurers) used coins when and where coinage existed, while nobility had their cash tied up in land, various valuables, potable items that can be quickly liquidated for cash, and small piles of gems and gold bars.

By extension, a Rogue Trader would have most of his capital in his ship (land), trophies, trade goods of various quality (potable wealth; can vary from preserved foodstuffs to industrial machinery,) and a small safe/vault of gold, Imperial scrip, and precious stones.  The amount of actual Thrones on the average Rogue Trader is probably not much more then what's on the average player in Dark Heresy since that represents a kind of wealth that really only has value within the Imperium.  The majority of a player's Profit score will be in things that can accepted by a wide variety of individuals like sliver, gold, jewels, tools, drugs (including medicinal ones,) and foodstuffs.

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Most likely, the Rogue Trader would have multiple accounts with a large banking guild such a House Krin and would also sink money into a number of different investments such as partial ownership in a manufactorum, shipyard or trade house.  It is highly unlikely that they carry around vaults filled with the currency of many worlds in the holds of their ships.

 

If this seems too modern, remember that banking and investing are nothing new.  They have been done since the middle ages. 

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I think the idea of the chest, guarded by assassins, sounds awesome.

In my DH game, my, very wealthy players, bank with the church. The exchange thrones for letters of credit that can be redeemed on other worlds. the krin do the same, at better rates, but the players have a real dislike for the krin. Credit accounts are common on the bigger worlds, such as malfi, but hard thrones are needed for many back water worlds, so any rogue trader worth their salt proablay has a collection of bizarre objects that can be used to barter with the locals for some of their useless gold rocks.

 

 

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Torque2100 said:

Most likely, the Rogue Trader would have multiple accounts with a large banking guild such a House Krin and would also sink money into a number of different investments such as partial ownership in a manufactorum, shipyard or trade house.  It is highly unlikely that they carry around vaults filled with the currency of many worlds in the holds of their ships.

 

If this seems too modern, remember that banking and investing are nothing new.  They have been done since the middle ages. 

In a ship at least 1.5 kms long, why would you think it would be so hard to see a rogue trader carry at least a room full of currency for all the major planets in the sector he regularly travels through.  Given most developed planets use standard imperial thrones, (With there own printing of it, but controlled by the Adeptus Terra sub branches on the planet)  Even then, local currency in both highly developed hive cities and more well known feudal worlds with valuable commodities might be worth more and have less of the notice when dealing with "less known" groups on those planets.

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How I handle large amounts of currency in my DH games is through the banking houses, such as the Krin.  You have an account with them that's as readily available on a given world as using your credit or debit card today.  However, if you plan to go to another planet, or find yourself on another planet, arrangements have to be made for the current value of your account to be confirmed, and transferred to the new planet.  If you do this ahead of time, you're in good shape as the Astropathic business is taken care of well before you arrive.  If you're already on a new world you weren't expecting to need your accounts on, however, you're stuck waiting hours (if you pay the cost out of pocket, and up front, to fast-track your request) or days for the transfer to be released.  Of course there's also scrip (paper or encrypted, certified datablocks), which is portable and tranferrable.

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Good answers. I would assume that lots of it is tied up in capital and investments (including land and accounts with House Krin). Thus the misfortunes which can strike a trader in the rules: I assume these represent threats to profitable capital and investments.

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In a galaxy as vast and crazy as Milky Way in WH40k, i always tend towards answering "everything is possible"

While investing the capital is - from our point of view - probably the wisest and most common option, it is not unlikely that one could find a Rogue Trader who has a huge stone vault filled with a hill of sparkling valuables, guarded by a dragonlike creature and several 3-headed dogs sleeping on top of it. Maybe there are dozens of vaults like this on his ship(s), most of them with nothing in it, whose only purpose it is to confuse burglars who try to rob precious gems and the like. The distribution of risk is not unknown in the 41st millenium.

Another one may be quartering large factory halls in his frigate which eject freshly (and illegally) printed banknotes like a heavy stubber on full auto would eject bullets. At least as long as the paper supplies last. Everyone knows why he is a ROGUE Trader.

A third one has spend a considerably sum to equip all main corridors on her ship with ATMs. One ATM actually stands on the command bridge, right next to the Gellar Field controls. Noone really understands why she has had them put up, but this is the way things go when human obsession meets the wealth of nobility. Sarvus Trask also started with no less than 21 Insanity Points

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to help simplify the matter of were I and 2 othe rogue traders would keep our mass of thrones, we have been consolidated into our own indepentant Rogue Trader House. So the thrones in question are tied up in ship maintanince, funding the exploration of a system of a proper planet for a colony and rebuilding a duantless-class Lt crusier after an encounter with eldar pirates.

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Do note that Profit Factor isn't a measure of raw thrones kept around collecting dust until the Rogue Trader needs to buy something. First of all, there are banking institutions in 40K (House Krin aka "The Drusus Bankers" being the closest and most prominent one in the nearby Calixis sector, and they are bound to have a set-up in Port Wander as well, due to all the treasure and wealth that Rogue Traders frequently pull from the Koronus Expanse).

Second, the Profit Factor is most likely also a measure of investments in different business enterprises, some are most likely owned entirely by the Rogue Trader and the other explorers (these would be called endavours I believe), and some enterprises might be owned collectivey by several businessmen where the Rogue Trader and the other explorers act as investors.

Thirdly the Profit Factor could also be a measurement of the amount of standing favors that the Rogue Trader and the other Explorers have with certain Adepta and organisations (I.O.U notes, hooks/catches, blackmail material etc.) something that can in the long term provide them with certain services or goods that the explorers may require.

Just keeping your entire wealth in a large vault aboard the ship like some 40K equivalent of Scrooge McDuck wouldn't be very sensible and you would grow poor pretty fast. A famous addage says that "you need to spend money to make money", and this holds true throughout pretty much all over the world today and most likely in the world of 40K as well. If you acquire large amounts of wealth, you need to send them spinning into business enterprises and also keep those enterprises alive if they are profitable, or cut your losses and choose another venture in case they aren't. Just hoarding the majority of your wealth and not doing anything with it is basically just setting up a ticking parking metre to eventual poverty.

Last but not least I thought I should mention that there are plenty of indications that the Profit Factor isn't something that the Rogue Trader is the sole and rightful owner of, but rather a measurement of wealth which the group of explorers have pooled together. Though the Rogue Trader sits on the vital position as the owner of both a Starship and a Writ of Trade (which are needed to conduct the business that all Explorers earn their income from), but that doesn't necessarily mean that he or she is the only true owner of all the wealth.

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I for one do not think that astropaths are used to transmit financial data across the stars like an Amex card.

I would imagine that Rogue Traders store wealth at their holdings, bury it, or carry it on their ship. Dropping off wealth with the Church for letters of credit also seems logical. However, astropathic relay of finances does not seem logical to me. You carry your wealth is my best guess, or its all invested in holdings, etc.

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Grand Inquisitor Fulminarex said:

 

I for one do not think that astropaths are used to transmit financial data across the stars like an Amex card.

 

 

Well not like an amex card, nor would such a banking procedure be available to anyone but the richest people in the Imperium, and the due to the use of astropaths involved any transaction is most likely to require a rather handsome banking fee (to pay all involved clerks and paying the astropathic guilds etc.)

But the fact remains that the Imperium does have and employ banking houses. It would be impossible to conduct large scale trade without more efficient means to exchange payment for goods and services other than actually loading up the entire vessel with thrones.

Also, Disciples of the Dark Gods for dark heresy did demonstrate the use of credit blocks and such. The usage of such things would be impossible unless some sort of transation of financial data took place between different worlds.

I can easily see that a Rogue Trader would want to keep a personal astropaths (or several) aboard at all times, partly because of the need to transmit financial data across the stars.

 

...Hmm, this just gave me an interesting idea for a scenario. Picture it, an old and perhaps deranged astropath lands in the lap of the explorers and proves at first to be little better than a nuisance to them. But they find out more aspects about the astropath in question. Namely that he or she used to be in the employ of a long since dead but exceedingly wealthy and prominent Rogue Trader, belonging to a dynasty that used to be considered as a major player in the Koronus Expanse. However, since the sudden and mysterious demise of the Rogue Trader, the dynasty has started to crumble and decay, mainly because the Rogue Trader also dealt with notorious criminals and embezzlement, and thus hid most of his wealth in everal incognito accounts with several different banking institutions, making it rather impossible for his rightful heirs to track down and access the dynasty wealth.

The thing is, the mad astropath in question was the one who handled all the transactions (although pretty much all vital information was transmitted as ciphers and thus the astropath can't really understand or translate the information to any outside sources). However, what if the Rogue Trader and his merry band of explorers could somehow jump-start the memory of this deranged astropath and somehow access all of these old ciphered transactions? And once that is done, they might be able to get in touch with an obscure, master cipherist who might actually be able to decipher the transaction data, and thus provide more or less legal and viable ways for the explorers to access the wealth of the deceased Rogue Trader.

Of course, as you might have suspected, the waning Rogue Trader dynasty will soon learn of the discovery of the deranged astropath and will do whatever they can to get him or her back and thus restore their wealth and prominence and thus provide the PC's with some seriously dangerous and powerful enemies. But how do you bring back the memory of transmitted banking messages locked inside the mind of a crazy astropath? And also, can this master cipherist they will eventually need to unlock the information really be trusted? He does seem to have a rather iffy reputation after all, and rumours circulate that he is hunted by Inquisitorial agents as well.

What do you guys think? Does it sound like an interesting plot? gran_risa.gif

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 Not only an interesting plot, but pretty much exactly how I've always set up the 40k financial sector (in RT, DH, and even in the old Inquisitor (despite the fact that had no real currency, or even an experience/campaign system)).  I'll only add that I've always viewed the Throne as an 'imaginary' exchange currency, with no existence except on paper, and even then only in the ledgers of the administratum (although transtellar interests may keep note of it, simply to work out the most appropriate prices for their cargoes/services).

Also- the various Navigator houses will most likely be the best candidates for banks. They have holdings pretty much everywhere, are ridiculously rich themselves, and are pretty much guaranteed to have access to astropaths.

Throw in letters-of-rights held against the Navis Nobilite, and there's a decent chance that the local merchant is going to actually get his money if he accepts it. Yeah, there's going to have to be vaults of various currencies if you're going out of the territory, but it's a workable system.

 

As for the idea of the astropathic Amex- the start of Blind (Farrer, M; BLP; 2006) includes a description of a routine news burst as part of an astropathic transmission; and included financial data- not quite the same as modern credit/debit systems, but closer to late 18th/early 19th century banking.

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Alasseo said:

Also- the various Navigator houses will most likely be the best candidates for banks. They have holdings pretty much everywhere, are ridiculously rich themselves, and are pretty much guaranteed to have access to astropaths.

Throw in letters-of-rights held against the Navis Nobilite, and there's a decent chance that the local merchant is going to actually get his money if he accepts it. Yeah, there's going to have to be vaults of various currencies if you're going out of the territory, but it's a workable system.

Farseer has Navigator House Belisarius acting as an investment bank in its activities involved in the purchase and later refit of the Star of Venam.

Of the order of can whistle up the purchase price of a hive city on a world they don't have a permenant presence in a matter of a couple of days. Mostly by exchange of letters of credit with local banking factors it appears.

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There's no way a rogue trader could turn all their money into hard cash, doing so would financially ruin several planets, and would probably count as heresy.

 A money-bin is a great idea, and something no ship should be without. Possibly it could be a ship component.

Vault of Thrones
Power 1
Space 1
SP 1
Liquid Assets: When working towards a trade objective, increase the achievement points gained by 75
Never a Late Paycheck: +10 to any acquisition checks made to restore lost crew or morale

Perhaps a hugy dynasty would have several transport ships devoted entirely to carrying different forms of wealth. And of course crews have to be paid in something, though this would likely occur at the end of a journey. The only other options are to charge for shipboard services, or watch the crew sit on bigger and bigger piles of money until they had a chance to do something with it.

 

Personally I'd have a vault with five men, each with a heavy flamer, at the sealed door. If anyone other than me tries to enter, they pull the triggers. The vault needs a voice scan, hand print and a password. If any of them are entered incorrectly the ceiling opens up to the void, via a grinder.

Oh, and an acid-proof troll in a lake.

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It all depends on which rogue trader. Some would have the majority of it in family estates and investments, others would have it in physical mounds of treasure inside their ship.

 

Knightmare said:

Hmm when i read the title of the thread i couldnt help but to think of Scrooge McDuck diving in hins money ...

Most RT should be big enough for some m³ of thornes ;-) 

 

The rogue trader in my game had a money vault, although not as grand. The group's seneschal actually swam naked through it ala scrooge mcduck and deleted all record of it from the security tapes. Easy, him being one of the main security officers and all.

 

 

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