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Mr T

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The Blood Angels and Flesh Tearers have a lot of dramatic potential, more than people usually give them credit for. It took me until the short story about Captain Tycho's death and the FT's Index Astartes article to find them interesting, as usually you only hear about the "beautiful space vampire" angle. ;)

 

Maybe I should check out his books about them, too ...

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If you haven't read it yet, you should check out "At Gaius Point" By Aardon Dembski-Bowden from Legends of the Space Marines.

 

Ever wonder what goes trough a marine's mind when the Black Rage overtakes him?

 

In this short story you can expirience it first hand. The story is about two Fleshtearers; one who thinks he's Sanguinus and sees everything around him like it's the Imperial Palace during the Siege of Horus. While the other is trying to track him down and stop his mad rampage. Then they run into a squad of Sisters of Battle...

Edited by Robin Graves

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I've read At Gaius Point, and it's a good one, if a bit too short. ADB is usually a safe bet, I was glad he tried his hands with the Sons of Sanguinius. I don't recall reading about Tycho's death outside the Codices though. I'd like to read that story - which one is it? And while we're at the topic of 40k literature, what are your personal favourites, guys? I'd like to get some recommendations, if you don't mind.

 

Also, for some reason I've yet to read a truly bad story about the Blood Angels & Co. Mediocre - yes, of course there were a few, but one without any redeeming qualities - no. While I admit that might be only because I haven't yet mustered the courage to start C.S. Goto's The Blood of Angels, I suspect it's also because the two-faced archetype somehow resonates with the reader.

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Well I like the Horus Heresy novels  so far (a few minor ones here and there but mostly pretty good)

 

For the Inquisition:

 

I'd say the Eisenhorn and Ravenor trilogies. And Atlas Infernal becuz it has harlequins!

 

 

For Imperial guard:

 

You should be ok with the first Gaunt's Ghosts trilogy, Necropolis reads like a frikkin' history tekst book at times but I kinda like it for that. Then mix it up with one of the Ciaphas Cain novels, just to see how different Sandy Mitchel's style is. (at times its almost Blackadder 40;000) Also check out the Last chancers omnibus (It's the dirty dozen in 40k. 'nuff said.) Now all those before were pretty much about the infantry, In Baneblade you follow a bunch of IG tankers. Not bad.

 

As a personal fave;check out Firecaste: It's Tau vs IG (on a world that i would condemn to exterminatus even if i was still on its surface.) the guard regiment in question is called the Arkhan Confederates. (Yup, it is what you are thinking. I swear some of their units are from somebody's Dealands rpg session!) There's a character named "Cletus Modine". When I read that I bought that book on the spot.

 

 

for Chaos space marines:

 

ADB's Night lords stuff. But all time best is Storm of Iron! and it's sort of sequal Dead Sky Black sun (that's an ultramarines novel, but it's on a chaos world and features everybody's favorite Iron Warrior Honsou from Storm of Iron. The Word Bearers novels are also ok, lots of scheming chaos bastards and the ending of Dark Creed was fun.

 

 

For Space marines:

 

I haven't read much SM novels, except for heroes/legends of the space marines. The Soul drinkers stuff isn't that bad either. I've been meaning to pick up some about the Fleshtearers.

 

 

For the Eldar:

 

Path of the Eldar trilogy. Very nice. we get to see what life is like on a craftworld, nd it's fll of little touches, like  a Striking Scorpions exarch who speaks in haikus!

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If you haven't read it yet, you should check out "At Gaius Point" By Aardon Dembski-Bowden from Legends of the Space Marines.

 

Yeah, I actually did read that one -- got the short story download from Black Library as I wanted to sample the author after having a chat with him. Plus, I like Armageddon as a background, so it seemed like a good bet.

 

It was enjoyable enough to read, though the narrative style (switching back and forth between vision and reality) seemed like a repeat of Captain Tycho's story from White Dwarf printed ~2 decades earlier. I'm not sure if ADB was aware of that, or if his take was even supposed to be some sort of homage.

 

Plus, the battle of Gaius Point is described differently from GW's own material, and the story has the usual Black Library problem where Space Marine protagonists always seem so much better than codex fluff would allow, but for better or worse, that is almost to be expected.

 

I felt the best thing was actually the description of how the Flesh Tearers might recruit on their homeworld. That was a neat idea.

 

And while we're at the topic of 40k literature, what are your personal favourites, guys? I'd like to get some recommendations, if you don't mind.

 

Uhhh, this question is always a bit tricky as it seems to depend a lot on individual preferences. Stuff like what your favourite army is, etc. But for this question, I like to recommend the short story anthologies. They tend to give you a broad selection of different topics and different takes by different readers.

 

It's almost like a story buffet where you can sample tasty morsels, and then decide what you'd like to order as a main dish -- meaning, finding an author whose style you enjoy.

 

"Dark Imperium" and "Tales from the Dark Millennium" would be good bets, as both anthologies not only cover a wide range of authors, but also subjects. Thus, they serve as excellent entry points for the fiction, possibly presenting you with aspects of the fluff you didn't even know you would find interesting. There's a lot of variety, as among the usual Marine stories you also get anything from the experiences of a Navy ship's press-ganged recruit, to the fate of a young psychic boy who starts to hear whispers.

 

Plus, since short stories come without the usual obligation to stretch out the plot, allow for sequels, or even present the reader with a happy end, they often allow for unconventional and refreshingly surprising resolutions, simply because the author didn't feel "obliged" to any formula such as letting the protagonists survive, rather than coming up with an elaborate twist. It's like the Outer Limits of 40k. :D

 

 

Alternatively ... the comics. It's pretty weird, but for whatever reason the graphic novels published for the franchise offer far more variety than the novels. Whilst the latter are 90% Space Marine bolter porn, the comics were unafraid to carve out their own niche with series such as Kal Jericho, a bounty hunter from Necromunda. Or, of course, The Redeemer!

 

SvmvV.jpg

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If you haven't read it yet, you should check out "At Gaius Point" By Aardon Dembski-Bowden from Legends of the Space Marines.

 

Yeah, I actually did read that one -- got the short story download from Black Library as I wanted to sample the author after having a chat with him. Plus, I like Armageddon as a background, so it seemed like a good bet.

 

It was enjoyable enough to read, though the narrative style (switching back and forth between vision and reality) seemed like a repeat of Captain Tycho's story from White Dwarf printed ~2 decades earlier. I'm not sure if ADB was aware of that, or if his take was even supposed to be some sort of homage.

 

 

Could be a case of Fleeting Demographic Rule.

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Uhhh, this question is always a bit tricky as it seems to depend a lot on individual preferences. Stuff like what your favourite army is, etc. But for this question, I like to recommend the short story anthologies. They tend to give you a broad selection of different topics and different takes by different readers.

 

Short version: well, you did suggest a few books earlier based on how an important aspect of 40k is particularly well explored in them - that's good enough for me :)

 

Long version: I mostly read Space Marine literature, chiefly because I'm always on the lookout to nick quotes, Chapter rituals and background, interesting characters, plot hooks and any other ideas for my games. All that dissemination gives me a pretty solid overview on recent Black Library material on Marines, so I can tell you how, for example, David Annandale is a brilliant psychologist, and his descriptions of a Space Marine's thinking and dilemmas are absolutely fascinating, while also being true to the universe. On the other hand, the military parts of his novels are bad. And I mean totally, immersion-breakingly bad. I'm nowhere near to being a military buff, but even I can spot how the soldiering in his books has nothing to do with modern (or futuristic, or early, or any) warfare. That means that his novella, Forge Master (part of the Overfiend collection), is simultaneously the best and worst 40k SM stuff I'll ever read. Still, if you have a Salamander Techie player, it's a recommended read for him as the writer describes the process of identity building for a Salamanders Techmarine: the struggles between emotion and logic; the dilemma to reconcile the twin desires to be involved as his Chapter culture suggests, and to be removed, as the Machine God dictates; to re-balance his own sense of self - it conveys everything on 60-odd pages Nick Kyme didn't even touch in a whole trilogy. Nick Kyme, on the other hand, works beautifully in his Marines Malevolent short stories toward showing how negative human emotions - jealousy, misinterpreted pride, anger - can work in concert in a Space Marine Chapter to make Machiavellian utilitarianism and Social Darwinism the core of its being. This is good, because it's easier to get drawn in if the heroes are not faultless, and the Malevolents are as humane with all their pettiness as it can get.

 

Periodically though I just get enough of that, usually after reading two or three bad stories in a row, and I feel the need to explore something else. The comics look like they're something worth checking out (I didn't even know about the Redeemer, can you imagine?), and I completely agree with what you said about the short stories in general, and the older, less thematic compilations in particular. There might be a re-reading in order. I'm currently at the point where I'm growing more and more unwilling to take on major 40k novel cycles, and I want to stop that tendency by reading something good, whatever the topic may be, that's the main reason behind asking for personal preferences.

 

 

Well I like the Horus Heresy novels  so far (a few minor ones here and there but mostly pretty good)

 

I give Horus Heresy a wide berth as a general rule, but based on those items of your list I've already read, your taste seems to be solid :D I'll be sure to check them out. Especially Firecaste, as it sounds silly enough, and the Chaos stuff, as it was a bit of a blind spot for me before, except for ADB's stuff.

 

As for the Flesh Tearers, I recommend it. James Swallow created a well-written character in Seth, and Andy Smillie, who writes most of the new stuff, stayed largely faithful to that. As someone from the nameless masses of 1d4chan so aptly, if a bit uncouthly, puts it: "Swallow's take on Seth is a guy who understands exactly what he is and will play his given role to the hilt, and **** the pitfalls. He consistently strikes a balance between acting like a complete d**k and yet somehow hitting the precise level of d**k that he gets you steamed while also garnering exactly the attention he needs to get his point across. It's like he's attained a zen level of d**k other d**ks could only hope to emulate."

 

Swallow's stuff is mostly buried in the latter half of the Blood Angels series, but Smillie's short stories are collected in an anthology, Trial by Blood.

 

Could be a case of Fleeting Demographic Rule.

 

Casually dropping a tvtropes pothole? You're more evil than I expected - sad thing, it almost worked :D Either way, ADB is an unapologetic fanboy, I wouldn't put it past him to purposefully recreate a classic. Which White Dwarf number has the original?

 

Finally, I have a specific question: Is Phalanx any good? I like Ben Counter's short stories, but Malodrax recently left a bad after-taste I'm keen to get rid of. I like the Fists too much to completely swear off reading about them.

Edited by musungu

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Casually dropping a tvtropes pothole? You're more evil than I expected - sad thing, it almost worked :D Either way, ADB is an unapologetic fanboy, I wouldn't put it past him to purposefully recreate a classic. Which White Dwarf number has the original?

 

Finally, I have a specific question: Is Phalanx any good? I like Ben Counter's short stories, but Malodrax recently left a bad after-taste I'm keen to get rid of. I like the Fists too much to completely swear off reading about them.

 

 

Once down the path of TVTropes you go, forever will it consume your time ;)

 

Yeah no kidding he's a fan boy! He's named his cat after a chaos space marine! (Ok so my external hard drives are called Alpahrius and Omegon, but that's beside the point. ;) )

 

I dunno I haven't read much Fists because i think they are a bunch of masochistic masons and only slightly less boring than the Ultramarines. Actualy of the 1st founding I only really like the Blood Angels.

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Which White Dwarf number has the original?

 

*rummages*

 

Lucky for you I sorted my collection by topic!

 

White Dwarf #251 (November 2000), page 86 -- it's part of the "Armageddon Ceasefire" feature. Just a single page, but very much worth it. A "mood piece", if you will. :)

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Which White Dwarf number has the original?

 

*rummages*

 

Lucky for you I sorted my collection by topic!

 

White Dwarf #251 (November 2000), page 86 -- it's part of the "Armageddon Ceasefire" feature. Just a single page, but very much worth it. A "mood piece", if you will. :)

 

 

How do you even...

 

Admit it: you aren't a normal human are you? You are secretly a data savant hardwired into an admech data-vault!

 

 

If i wanted to rummage trough my WD's I first have to remove a metric ton of boardgame boxes.I have half a gamestore stowed away in my closet. Luckily i have them also on PDF.

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:D For better or worse, I don't actually own as many WD as I'd like. I just began hunting down the ones with interesting subjects a couple years ago, using various newsagents that sell retained "back issues" online (very cheap! like, 1 pound per magazine).

 

I'm a big fan of the many snippets of background embedded into White Dwarf, especially since about 2/3 of the Sororitas' background is printed there (grrr), so at some point I just had to acquire these little known sources.

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Good luck finding them in the current white dwarfs. No articles (except paint guides) No battle reports. sometimes I wonder why I still buy them nowadays...

 

.. and no kitbash tips, no free terrain pieces (I actually have a little cardboard church that came with an issue about SoB :D) ...

 

I had high hopes that their intent of relaunching WD would bring back ye good olde days. Alas ...

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How do you even...

 

Admit it: you aren't a normal human are you? You are secretly a data savant hardwired into an admech data-vault!

 

My thoughts exactly :D what monster are you?

 

I just realised my WD collection ends at #231. There used to be a White Dwarf archive on GW's website around 2010 with certain articles available in PDF format, so maybe the Wayback Machine can come to the rescue. Also, great. Now the Huntsman's theme song from Freakazoid will be stuck in my head for the rest of the day... if there's an emergency, sound the Horn of Urgency... [indistinct humming] ...kill me...

 

 

I dunno I haven't read much Fists because i think they are a bunch of masochistic masons and only slightly less boring than the Ultramarines. Actualy of the 1st founding I only really like the Blood Angels.

 

That they are, but I guess everyone who entered the 40k scene by reading Ian Watson's novels first still retains a soft spot for them. The Pain Glove and carving one's own finger bones in remembrance of the fallen were the first epic grimdark moments I encountered, and nostalgia dies hard.

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The finger bones is cool gothic grimdark. The pain glove is what made me go "oh you bunch of gimps!"

 

So In one of HH novels (yes, yes I know...) Horus has the plan to turn the Blood Angels to become followers of Khorne.

I have a sneaking suspicion that he would have tried the same thing with the Imperial Fists and Slaanesh.

But I guess the combination of "Slaanesh" and "fist" is truly creepy.

 

Oh yeah, Want to see something strange and mystical?

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There used to be a White Dwarf archive on GW's website around 2010 with certain articles available in PDF format, so maybe the Wayback Machine can come to the rescue.

 

Much like White Dwarf, the GW website used to be so much more awesome. You had PDF rulesets for the Specialist Games, background articles like Armies of the Imperium, free mini-codices like the one for Catachans or Valkyrie formations, ...

 

Now it's just a catalogue. Nothing more. Mhff..

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The finger bones is cool gothic grimdark. The pain glove is what made me go "oh you bunch of gimps!"

C'mon, the pain glove is the same kind of impractical, exaggerated element as the chainsword. For me, if you want to make stoic super-Prussians ...IN SPEHSS, you don't stop halfway :D but yeah, I accept it might not be everybody's cup of tea, as evidenced by the kinda lame and certainly impractical crunch they received in DW. I know the Immovable Object niche was filled by the Dark Angels already, but putting siegecraft front and centre in a game of small-team black ops is just... not making any sense.

 

So In one of HH novels (yes, yes I know...) Horus has the plan to turn the Blood Angels to become followers of Khorne.

I have a sneaking suspicion that he would have tried the same thing with the Imperial Fists and Slaanesh.

But I guess the combination of "Slaanesh" and "fist" is truly creepy.

This sounds a bit like the Dornian Heresy... admittedly over there the Wolves got Khorne'd, and Slaneesh claimed the Scars, but it's a popular pastime to imagine who gets what in an opposite universe. And about power fists - let's just say you weren't the first to think of that. Lay off the poor beavers, willya? Sheeeeeesh!

 

Much like White Dwarf, the GW website used to be so much more awesome. You had PDF rulesets for the Specialist Games, background articles like Armies of the Imperium, free mini-codices like the one for Catachans or Valkyrie formations, ...

 

Now it's just a catalogue. Nothing more. Mhff..

And not even the good, library-type catalogue, but a mail order one. Luckily the majority of the old site is archived, so the knowledge is at least not lost forever. I'd just love to see a common, indexed archive for all past GW and GW-licensed materials. It would be a gold mine. Excuse me while I just go stare out the window and drool a bit.

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I can sort of see the siegecraft thing working, bonuses to close quarters fighting (In the old rules the iron Warriors could take khorne berzerker squads for that reason.) detecting ambushes because you recognise a the layout of your suroundings as a killzone, bonues while making a last stand/defending an objective (while in heavy cover) massive bonuses to demolitions and stuff.

 

Emperor's children marine: "ha haaa! You drop ze bolter yah? Pafetic fist! You come in her bold, like the masque of Slaanesh herself with your tiny death watch kill team to destroy our Perfect Palace! Ha! what can you do? You have but one demo charge! The perfect Palace shall stand FOREVER! Also your shoulderpads don't match yah?"

 

Imperial Fist: "Don't tell me the workings of siegecraft you knave! I have found the weak spot of this whole corrupt structure!"

 

Iron warrior: "What? No- wai-Aaawww shi-" *runs*

 

Imperial fist: "For the Emperor!" *detonates democharge*

 

Que explosion and total collapse of the Perfect Palace

 

Ok slight exageration but i would like to see Imperial Fists like that.

Edited by Robin Graves

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Good story - but why is the Emps' Children marine the German one? Germans being hedonists is not a stereotype I'm familiar with. After all, "Wir lieben unsere Autos mehr als unsere Frauen", that is "We love our cars more than our wives" - as the band Die Prinzen so memorably sung in their song Deutschland . That's hardly super-kinky :D

 

But I don't mean siegecraft is completely useless, I can see uses for it even in Deathwatch. It's just that it became the central element of their DW crunch (taking up their special Talent, Solo Mode, a Psychic Power, their weirdly restrictive new Oath in FF, which Apothecaries and Techmarines cannot take), while their GW background suggests a bit more sophistication. For example, they get +10WP during character creation, but knowing there's an old Codex entry saying they practice twice as much with bolters as the others (I might be paraphrasing here, but something similar is there, I'll source it if someone wants that), I feel a +5BS, +5WP would be more fitting - and more practical. They're dour even on their best days, but there's more to them than loving pain and sieges, and hating fun.

Edited by musungu

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Good story - but why is the Emps' Children marine the German one? Germans being hedonists is not a stereotype I'm familiar with. After all, "Wir lieben unsere Autos mehr als unsere Frauen", that is "We love our cars more than our wives" - as the band Die Prinzen so memorably sung in their song Deutschland . That's hardly super-kinky :D

 

Have you seen their porn? ;) There is a theory about the more structured and organised a society is the more outlandisch their porn gets. (Exibit B: Japan) Actualy I just like the stereotipical accent and I figured it would work with an Emp's child who thinks himself superior (and likes to critiscise other peoples armor and wargear)

 

Also: Rammstein. Songs like Spiel mit mir, Buck dig and (oh god) Man gegen man.

 

Yeah in my headcanon the Emps children are a bunch of sadistic narcisistic killer perverts with a massive superiority complex. That whole pre-heresy "perfection" thing is still part of them, despite all the orgies and drugs and the heavy noise. But I alos tend to stereotype them as the one with all the sex...

 

Of course I played my EC marine as a cross between Luitenant Greuber, Versache, a chronically bored dilletante and a hippy.

go figure ;)

Edited by Robin Graves

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But I don't mean siegecraft is completely useless, I can see uses for it even in Deathwatch. It's just that it became the central element of their DW crunch (taking up their special Talent, Solo Mode, a Psychic Power, their weirdly restrictive new Oath in FF, which Apothecaries and Techmarines cannot take), while their GW background suggests a bit more sophistication. For example, they get +10WP during character creation, but knowing there's an old Codex entry saying they practice twice as much with bolters as the others (I might be paraphrasing here, but something similar is there, I'll source it if someone wants that), I feel a +5BS, +5WP would be more fitting - and more practical. They're dour even on their best days, but there's more to them than loving pain and sieges, and hating fun.

 

There's more to fists than pain and sieges! They also have a grudge with the Iron warriors. ;)

 

Yeah they focused a little bit to much on the siege aspect. They should also have a bit of pride dammit. The emperor did name them his praetorians after all. That's gotta count for something.

 

The big E: "Okay guys, I'm going back to terra, Oh and I'm taking Dorn and his boys with me. Horus you can take care of things on your own yeah? Go and finnish  daddy's lil' crusade, ktnxbye!"

 

Dorn: "So... yeah, you heard the man.  See you guys! Conquer some planets for me ok?"

 

Horus: "Dad? why are you leaving? dad?"

 

Angron: "GOOD."

 

Other primarchs: T.T

 

Dorn: "Oh yeah one more thing... Suck it Roboute! HA!"

Edited by Robin Graves

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Also: Rammstein. Songs like Spiel mit mir, Buck dig and (oh god) Man gegen man.

 

Fun fact, 9 out of 10 Evangelion music videos are made with a Rammstein song!

 

Some of them are rather creepy, though. I guarantee you, their impact is a lot greater if you understand the lyrics.

 

Yeah in my headcanon the Emps children are a bunch of sadistic narcisistic killer perverts with a massive superiority complex. That whole pre-heresy "perfection" thing is still part of them, despite all the orgies and drugs and the heavy noise.

 

I think the best thing about the EC I've heard so far is that they were grinding people down to dust after they had landed on Terra. Everyone else goes besieging the Imperial Palace, whilst these guys start rounding up civilians and, uh, distil them into something they can snort down. Very crass.

 

Yeah they focused a little bit to much on the siege aspect. They should also have a bit of pride dammit. The emperor did name them his praetorians after all. That's gotta count for something.

 

I think the siege aspect was alright. I mean, it is what sets them apart from the other Chapters the most. Sure, you could also give them stuff like +BS, but then you quickly run into the usual SPESS MEHREEN cliché where every Chapter is the best and somehow they all have the best close and ranged combat experts etc.

 

In my opinion, Chapter choice should be based primarily on how much the background speaks to you. After that, it's up to the GM to craft missions where each of the PCs has an opportunity to shine with their specialisation.

 

That being said, it is worth noting that the Fists are also fortification experts, so perhaps in addition to a focus on siege, they could have also added some defensive trait?

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I think the siege aspect was alright. I mean, it is what sets them apart from the other Chapters the most. Sure, you could also give them stuff like +BS, but then you quickly run into the usual SPESS MEHREEN cliché where every Chapter is the best and somehow they all have the best close and ranged combat experts etc.

 

In my opinion, Chapter choice should be based primarily on how much the background speaks to you. After that, it's up to the GM to craft missions where each of the PCs has an opportunity to shine with their specialisation.

 

That being said, it is worth noting that the Fists are also fortification experts, so perhaps in addition to a focus on siege, they could have also added some defensive trait?

Hey, man, for once I quote from the Codices instead of a BL novel, and you argue against me? What treachery is this? :D

 

Seriously though, I'm not calling for scrapping siegecraft, I'm only advocating a bit more diversification, as siegecraft is evoking, well, a siege - something that should be completely outside of typical DW expertise in its vast scope. A kill-team will simply not find itself in a position to put something under proper siege, ever (and I'm not the Daily Mail, surrounding a house for a while is not something I'd call a siege). To be fair, the abilities under this umbrella term include fortification - as a matter of fact, both the original solo mode and the special Talent increase cover.

 

C:SM 6E (I don't have the older ones at hand right now) says: "The Imperial Fists place great value in accuracy and its warriors are justly famed for their marksmanship. As a result, a vast majority of Imperial Fists battle-brothers spend a disproportionate time waging war as a Devastator, mastering the art of the long-range kill before progressing into the ranks of Assault or Tactical squads." That should have warranted the inclusion of, say, Bolter Drill on their progression table, instead of only getting it as the temporary effect of their Squad Mode Attack Pattern.

 

I'm not saying my Special Snowflakes should be the bestest ever (the Fists are not even that for me)*, I'm just proposing to use more of their rich, established background. There are some fun things in it, after all - like how you could easily include a nod to the Book of Five Spheres and the Feat of Blades by giving some very small, nominal bonus on using the Combat Blade or stuff like that.

 

*For the sake of complete honesty and full disclosure: I wouldn't mind seeing a Chapter generally being good at shooting stuff. I usually play Apothecaries, and a shooty Apothecary is something I'd like to play once. Since the Specialisation's progression chart is not really helpful in this, and that is unlikely to change (nor should it, generally speaking), a shooty Chapter table could step in to complement it. The Fists are good candidates to become this Chapter, as their lore explicitly support this notion, but I didn't write what I did because of this - I honestly mean they deserve a bit more variety than what they've got right now, and I will stand by this even if they change the General table to include more Bolter stuff so I can get those early and cheap.

Edited by musungu

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To be fair, the abilities under this umbrella term include fortification - as a matter of fact, both the original solo mode and the special Talent increase cover.

 

Ah! I don't have that particular book, but that's good to hear.

 

Technically, I'd agree that siegecraft doesn't sound too useful for a Deathwatch Marine, but then again -- the character will be an Imperial Fist, Deathwatch Marine second. It just wouldn't make any sense if they lose the expertise they gained from their Chapter specialisation, even if it's not very useful to their new/current job. I just see that more as a roleplaying thing rather than comparing crunch efficiencies, although increased Cover certainly sounds practical!

 

C:SM 6E (I don't have the older ones at hand right now) says: "The Imperial Fists place great value in accuracy and its warriors are justly famed for their marksmanship. As a result, a vast majority of Imperial Fists battle-brothers spend a disproportionate time waging war as a Devastator, mastering the art of the long-range kill before progressing into the ranks of Assault or Tactical squads." That should have warranted the inclusion of, say, Bolter Drill on their progression table, instead of only getting it as the temporary effect of their Squad Mode Attack Pattern.

 

Okay, I actually don't have the 6E 'dex, only the previous editions, so that's actually new to me. However, the "famed for marksmanship" is exactly what I meant earlier with how every Marine book says this for just about every Chapter. Only the greater duration as Devastators is something I'd actually call unique -- yet Devastators are Heavy Weapon Guys, so Bolter Drill actually sounds rather unfitting.

 

Coincidentally, a trait that supports using Heavy Weapons would also play into the siegecraft aspect. It's not what you want to see in regards to the "shooty Apothecary", but then again, I still don't see anything that would actually justify bonuses to small arms. Unless you want your Apothecary to run around with a missile launcher or a lascannon, that is.

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