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Harold Square

Severe difficulty of new "Great Old Ones"

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My son and I recently scored our new "Innsmouth Horror" expansion.

To give the new set the fullest play, we folded up all other expansions and reduced the game to just the basic set and the new expansion.

We have played three games so far.  The new GOO's have proven extremely difficult for us.  We are 0 for 3 at this point.

Are we the only ones to feel this way, or have others experienced this?  

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We played just once, in the same way you did (i.e. only basic game + Innsmouth expansion), fighting against Nyogtha (and its tendril) and using only Innsmouth characters. An easy win, but we were very lucky, being able to defeat all the monsters in Innsmouth before they enter the vortex and thus having not many troubles while dealing with the Deep Ones Rising Track.

But yes, I agree with you, some of the new GOO seem pretty tough to beat

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Might be your problems stem from IH itself, not the GOOs? Many of the IH GOOs don't have a huge impact with their slumber-party ability, so they don't affect the game as much as other GOOs (esp. Tsathoggua, Hastur and Yog-Sothoth). Ghatanothoa and Rhan-Tegoth to me have a meaningful ability (R-T only 'cos I seem to draw Cultists and Cultist-wannabes too often), others are so-so (Chaugnar Faugn, please). Should note that in 30+ gate openings, no doubles rolled with Zhar, so he might climb up. IH GOOs pack a mean bite in final combat, but as always, I prefer to win, not draw gui%C3%B1o.gif .

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Harold Square said:

Are we the only ones to feel this way, or have others experienced this?

Not at all.  The Innsmouth AOs are fairly formidable.  They're not as brutal as the Kingsport AOs during the actual game, but they excel at being unpredictable, or better yet, punishing to the Investigators' choices.  Every Seal makes Chaugnar a greater nuisance.  Every boardspace brings Cthugha closer to you.   Every extra Clue gives Ghatanothoa a chance to take you out.  Every turn drives Quachil's First Players a little nearer to the edge.  Instead of a global effect or Mythos card activating them, it's YOU jostling them.  And if you do wake them up, if you haven't been fortunate to grab something you can use as a weapon or a shield, they will rip you apart FAST.  I have beaten each IH AO at least once, but I have lost to each one more than that, and often in a most horrifying manner.

Dam, you really need to add that you use ALL expansions for ALL your games, because I really don't think you know how mean Innsmouth can be when you don't let all those other cards get in its way. preocupado.gif

 

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jgt summed it up extremely well, and put it into a perspective that I hadn't considered. But yeah, you're not mistaken. Innsmouth is the hardest expansion for more than one reason:

  • The board mechanic threatens the most dire consequence
  • Fewer unstable locations but more Mythos cards opening gates than Dunwich means that there is a huge increased risk of monster surges centered around Innsmouth
  • Dagon is one of the hardest heralds around (guys, remember the rumor that the two heralds in Innsmouth were going to be the "hardest yet"? Hydra—not so much)
  • Two of the four unstable locations are connected directly to a vortex
  • Martial Law is nasty, and is enacted early
  • The AOs are comparable to Kingsport's in overall difficulty, but are matched by almost no others in final battle difficulty
  • Random encounters in Innsmouth aren't usually safe or comfortable
  • Many of the monsters are nasty, such as the Servitor
  • There are lots of negative Mythos effects, and many of them are borderline cruel

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jgt7771 said:

 

Dam, you really need to add that you use ALL expansions for ALL your games, because I really don't think you know how mean Innsmouth can be when you don't let all those other cards get in its way. preocupado.gif

 

 

What you say there doesn't seem to point in any way toward the IH GOOs, "just" IH board, Mythos, etc.. Have you tried IH GOOs vs AH GOOs with base + IH? I just can't see the IH GOOs being harder if you go by their ability for the most part. And ability + doom track is what to me makes a GOO difficult or not (especially in a situation where the combination of expansions is the same). Azathoth of course gives the AH group a bad rap and makes them easier as a whole. Talking about close/seal wins here, in final combat they wipe the butt with all but Cthulhu and maybe Yog (and Azzy).

Even of Tibs' points, only one relates to the actual (IMO) topic, difficulty of the GOOs. And even that is debatable. KH GOOs all have quite a big sting from their slumber-abilities, A-N would deserve a huge sting rating.

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I think your "compartmentalization" of the AOs oversimplifies the situation.  The AH AOs all have "global effects" that affect the game all the time; most of the IH AOs have effects that only happen if the Investigators "trip the switch".  Now I know you find most of those global effects to be easily compensated for, and I would tend to agree: no matter how the game goes, there's a fixed quantity that must be covered.  And the IH AOs can be just as easily avoided: just don't poke them.

Unless your game is going horribly wrong.

You really need Clues to close Gates fast because too many are open.  Hastur doesn't care if you make some bulky Clue runs; Ghatanothoa does.  If I'm playing with less unstable locations, who has a harder time finding Clues anyway?

You've already sealed two Gates in Dunwich; you don't really need to go back there.  But I've only got locations in Arkham and Innsmouth, and those -1's from Chaugnar are in a much denser area.

I've played both ways--one expansion and all expansions--and I GUARANTEE you will get more monster surges with fewer expansions (just fewer Mythos cards in general), and for someone who claims to be a Cultist magnet demonio.gif, Rhan-Tegoth will hand you your "draw" a lot faster my way.

When the whole game is beating you up, the AH AOs still mostly just sit there, but the IH AOs are ready to take advantage of your panic as you begin to scramble around, right into their Slumber Tripwires.  I don't believe your games are as hard as mine because of basic dilution, which seriously cuts down on your "panic" potential, and because of that, I don't think you've felt exactly what I have trying to avoid hitting those IH AO pitfalls.

...hope I didn't just embarrass myself... babeo.gif

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jgt7771 said:

You really need Clues to close Gates fast because too many are open.  Hastur doesn't care if you make some bulky Clue runs; Ghatanothoa does.  If I'm playing with less unstable locations, who has a harder time finding Clues anyway?

Smaller area leads to faster access to Clues. If you're in AH, you can probably get to some location with Clue(s). And with AH + IH Mythos deck, that's where the Clues will be. Once you're cleared out AH when using AH + DH + IH, you might be forced to head to DH for Clues, often a 2-turn trip just to get there and collect 1+ Clues, another 1-2 turns to get back (if no gate in DH). And TBH, Ghatanothoa can devour an investigator for all I care, it isn't a big deal in most cases (OW devouring will hurt the most).

jgt7771 said:

You've already sealed two Gates in Dunwich; you don't really need to go back there.  But I've only got locations in Arkham and Innsmouth, and those -1's from Chaugnar are in a much denser area.

Even seals in Arkham have very little impact, unless every street is blocked off by a monster, otherwise you can skirt around. With just AH + IH, again, you don't need to cover that much ground, so Cthugha isn't that big of a deal (he isn't even with triple boards).

jgt7771 said:

When the whole game is beating you up, the AH AOs still mostly just sit there, but the IH AOs are ready to take advantage of your panic as you begin to scramble around, right into their Slumber Tripwires.  I don't believe your games are as hard as mine because of basic dilution, which seriously cuts down on your "panic" potential, and because of that, I don't think you've felt exactly what I have trying to avoid hitting those IH AO pitfalls.

...hope I didn't just embarrass myself... babeo.gif

Lol, panic scramble. Pfft, cool heads prevail gui%C3%B1o.gif .

Which of them do even have a Tripwire as you call it? Rhan-Tegoth you can't do anything about, he's pure luck. Zhar, does panic make you roll more doubles? Bokrug has no wire and you can even buy off his effects on the game. Cthugha and his Stamina damage can hurt with a bunch of 3-4 Stamina investigators, but planning your moves minimizes his impact. Nyogtha, like R-T, pure luck. QU will most likely eat the first investigator, maybe the second, other ones shouldn't even see him in the game (unless things go to final combat, then they get a quick peek).

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Dam said:

Zhar, does panic make you roll more doubles?

Possibly, thats philosophically debatable. It will certainly make you feel something, which will have an effect on your experience of the game. In any case, leaving psychological concerns aside, I think Id need to play more against the Innsmouth critters before I figure them difficulty wise, but at the moment I would agree they are of a higher order of difficulty. I have been playing AH + BG + IH for a while and have been up against base GOOs as well as the newbs, and while there were factors like heralds, runs of pure luck and personal hell variants being toyed with influencing things, overall the base GOOs are less of a threat. And really, Id like some new, tougher versions of them now.

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