Question about Commander cards

[MeeserMike 0]

Hi all, so I can't seem to find a clear interpretation through the rules (very possible simply I missed it) but with the commander cards Tarkin and Doddona have different backs/icons to those of leia and wulfen. As well as the no name commanders. Also where as the liaisons and sub-main characters have matching icons to the ships Tarkin and Doddona do not.

So at this point in time do I not have a ship that could have Tarkin as it's officer?

[Aminar 1,949]

Hi all, so I can't seem to find a clear interpretation through the rules (very possible simply I missed it) but with the commander cards Tarkin and Doddona have different backs/icons to those of leia and wulfen. As well as the no name commanders. Also where as the liaisons and sub-main characters have matching icons to the ships Tarkin and Doddona do not.

So at this point in time do I not have a ship that could have Tarkin as it's officer?

Tarkin and Dodonna can be placed on any ship.

Every fleet must have 1(and only 1 I believe) character with that symbol.

The ship they are on is your flagship. You have to mark it as such.

[Nagash1959 94]

Page 13 of the Rules Ref. Guide gives you a breakdown of the symbols. The characters without any symbol in the bottom left corner are Commanders. You must have *exactly one* Commander in a Fleet, and that Commander may be assigned to any ship. 

While characters like Leia and Wulff have the Officer Icon, and can be placed on any ship with the matching Upgrade option. 

Hope that helps!

[willismaximus 104]

I found this a little confusing too at first, because, like many things, it wasn't covered very well or at all in that learn to play booklet.  As already stated, every fleet must have exactly one commander, placed on any ship you like which becomes a flagship.  Right now, with just the core set, that means imps HAVE to take Tarkin, and rebels HAVE to take Dodonna.  The other cards you mentioned are not commanders, but things like officers, weapons teams, etc.  Those you can have one of each type as long as the icon appears on that ship card.  

 

As Nagash said this stuff is all laid out on page 13 of the rules reference.  Read it thoroughly and it should answer just about any question you could have.

[Kulikov 6]

I wonder why, if a Commander is required, there isn't a generic one that costs 0 points and provides no ability.

[Aminar 1,949]

I wonder why, if a Commander is required, there isn't a generic one that costs 0 points and provides no ability.

Flavor.

Because that gives each build a focus.

And because it's thematic and interesting.

Because they're a terrible buy without mandating them, but by mandating them each list is a little different.

The list goes on.

Edited May 6, 2015 by Aminar

[Wildhorn 453]

I wonder why, if a Commander is required, there isn't a generic one that costs 0 points and provides no ability.

Would be very flavorless and also I think it is a way to limit the amount of points you can use to get ships.

[infusco 91]

I think it is indeed one of those situations where FFG went with theme.

 

Plus, realistically, there needs to be a command structure, and a guy calling all the shots, in fleet actions involving many ships and fighters. It just makes sense on said thematic level.

[willismaximus 104]

Yeah, it puts a face to the fleet you're fighting.  Rather than facing a random mass of empty ships, I suppose it feels more like you are Tarkin, fighting against Dodonna, or whatever.  Adds a bit of immersion if you're into that.

[wonderpug 219]

Plus, if they want to have objective cards or upgrade cards that refer to a commander or flagship, these rules ensure there is always a commander and a flagship to refer to.

[Aminar 1,949]

I know when I first looked at my cards I saw Tarkins ability. I thought, thet's pretty sweet. I saw and the cost and thought. Not worth it without more ships, and never worth it.

Which holds true. But he's currently mandatory. And he really only costs whatever he costs more than the cheapesr commander option.

So 18 points for his ability.(Compared to Dodonnas. Probably worth it.

But 38 points better than no commander. Not at all. No commander becomes the best choice by a wide margin.

Edited May 8, 2015 by Aminar

[Wildhorn 453]

I know when I first looked at my cards I saw Tarkins ability. I thought, thet's pretty sweet. I saw and the cost and thought. Not worth it without more ships, and never worth it.

Which holds true. But he's currently mandatory. And he really only costs whatever he costs more than the cheapesr commander option.

So 18 points for his ability.(Compared to Dodonnas. Probably worth it.

But 38 points better than no commander. Not at all. No commander becomes the best choice by a wide margin.

Actually I think Tarkin worth its price. It allow you to ajust on the fly. You need to slow down or speed up? Tarkin. You need to activate a squadrons to engage some X-Wing before they get to you? Tarkin. You want to repair a shield? Tarkin.

[Aminar 1,949]

I know when I first looked at my cards I saw Tarkins ability. I thought, thet's pretty sweet. I saw and the cost and thought. Not worth it without more ships, and never worth it.

Which holds true. But he's currently mandatory. And he really only costs whatever he costs more than the cheapesr commander option.

So 18 points for his ability.(Compared to Dodonnas. Probably worth it.

But 38 points better than no commander. Not at all. No commander becomes the best choice by a wide margin.

Actually I think Tarkin worth its price. It allow you to ajust on the fly. You need to slow down or speed up? Tarkin. You need to activate a squadrons to engage some X-Wing before they get to you? Tarkin. You want to repair a shield? Tarkin.

While that is nice. I'm not sure he's better than 4 (almost 5) tie squadrons. Or Howlrunner and two ties. But his opportunity cost is much lower than that because commanders are mandatory.

[infusco 91]

Also, don't forget that you're limited in squadron points to one-third of your total point count. So you have can Tarkin AND 100 points worth of squadrons.

[Aminar 1,949]

Also, don't forget that you're limited in squadron points to one-third of your total point count. So you have can Tarkin AND 100 points worth of squadrons.

I'm just talking comparative costs.

I think his effect on a 180 battle isn't 38 points worth. Not when he's only affecting one ship. Without him fitting two Victories into that 180 with some ties is an option. With him it isn't.

And two victories with ties beats two victories with Tarkin.

Dodonna is an even better case.

[infusco 91]

I don't know, man ... command tokens are pretty **** powerful. And it's every round for six rounds. So two ships in fleet means 12 extra command tokens. That's potentially 12 squadrons you activate during the ship phase. Or 12 shields you heal. Or 12 dice rerolls. Or 12 quick changes in speed.

 

By the way, I recommend not thinking in terms of 180 point fleet builds. Pretty much everyone has already concluded than you can't properly build a fleet on 180 points, and no one is even bothering trying anymore. Plus Wave 1 is due out in a week, and 180 point builds will become something entirely in the past.

 

Also, 180 point builds are only meant for games played with one Core box. 2 VSDs requires two of them.

Edited May 8, 2015 by infusco

[Aminar 1,949]

I don't know, man ... command tokens are pretty **** powerful. And it's every round for six rounds. So two ships in fleet means 12 extra command tokens. That's potentially 12 squadrons you activate during the ship phase. Or 12 shields you heal. Or 12 dice rerolls. Or 12 quick changes in speed.

 

By the way, I recommend not thinking in terms of 180 point fleet builds. Pretty much everyone has already concluded than you can't properly build a fleet on 180 points, and no one is even bothering trying anymore. Plus Wave 1 is due out in a week, and 180 point builds will become something entirely in the past.

 

Also, 180 point builds are only meant for games played with one Core box. 2 VSDs requires two of them.

I'm aware.

But my point was made based on my first impression. But I also know gamers. Tarkin is not worth 38 points. But he is worth 18 points more than Dodonna.

Dodonna isn't worth 20 points. But he is worth using when looked at as the 0 point option in 280 point game where one must be taken.

The point costs on the Commander Cards are artificially high. This is ok. But I maintain they'd see little use without being mandated at any point level. They make one ship a target. They're a huge risk in that regard.

But because they're mandatory they'll see use and add flavor.

[Jochmann 88]

Depends on fleet sizes. At 180 it would be stupid to take one, if you've got the choice. At 400 with one maximum upgraded capital ship and a bunch o' squadrons, Tarkin isn't a real choice neither, though Dodonna might be. At 400 with 5 capitals, Tarkin is really a strong choice, I'd probably take him even if I mustn't.

[Aminar 1,949]

Depends on fleet sizes. At 180 it would be stupid to take one, if you've got the choice. At 400 with one maximum upgraded capital ship and a bunch o' squadrons, Tarkin isn't a real choice neither, though Dodonna might be. At 400 with 5 capitals, Tarkin is really a strong choice, I'd probably take him even if I mustn't.

I don't know how many 400 point Imperial builds will have 5 ships. I'm picturing a lot of 3-4 ship builds. But even with the smaller ships I see a lot of

Imp and 2-3 ships.

Or 2 Victories and 2 smaller ships.

[MaverickNZ 591]

The problem with Tarkin is that it has to be the same command token to all ships, and small ships can take fewer tokens - even running a dual victory list there are times when one ship really needs a repair, but the second ship is still sitting on a repair token, so I think with any more than 3 ships the token holding abilities or the different needs of ships will prove difficult. Unless you just spam repair each turn - which is what it appears to turn into.

[infusco 91]

Agreed. I think Tarkin will be used a good deal for specific strategy builds. He's also best on ships with a high command score. But for example, on a tanky VSD setup, him granting engineering tokens every turn gives all those ships a free shield heal per turn. Or Concentrate Fire tokens for a free reroll every turn. Or a squadron token to a free squadron activation (I can see this one used a lot as there's never a reason to NOT take advantage of the squadron command unless you're fielding no squadrons ... which would be a pretty dumb move for Imperials given how many bombers rebels have). On a Gladiator heavy setup, I can absolutely see them using Navigate tokens frequently also for large speed changes when needed.