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TheRealStarkiller

No StarVipers at the tables, no StarViper talk ....

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Hey KovuTalli, I was very interested to see where you would finish at the National as I was the other StarViper player. (Guri and 5 pirates).

 

I managed to win against a duel IG list in my first game only to lose to the Han and three Bandits which you played against. I tried to kill the Bandits quickly but by the time I managed it, I had lost three Pirates and just didn't have enough to chew through Han. I was getting a little annoyed at the:

Roll three dice, reroll with Han. I dodge, Luke kicks in, reroll with Han, change one focus to hit . . . . Guri just couldn't dodge all that. .

I then lost to a three Interceptor list. Despite causing Soontir to bump three times in a row and having Guri at range 1 and two headhunters at range 2 on all three occasions, I didn't do a single point of damage. That was 22 red dice that did zero damage . . was not impressed. I lost two headhunters and that was the game.

 

Very annoying.

 

Ah Nice, I don't think I saw that list? Unless that was the other Viper list I saw but I'm sure someone said that was another Xizor list but with PTL.

 

Yeah it was a tough list but in my game vs Han 3Z he flew the Z's in but flew Han at a Rock then Sharp 1'd away from combat rather than just taking the rock and getting in. I then traded very well with his Z's and then turned on Han. - I believe he also called me out for Slow play (He walked away came back then a TO came over and asked me to speed it up) all because he had played poorly and knew he needed as many rounds as possible to get points.

 

I know the pain of bad dice, it cost me first came of the Cut. Losing Z's for not taking any in return for 2 rounds hurts :(

I can't wait to get my hands on the Rax fighters and maybe try and build around Talonbane, or throw it in tooled up instead of some Z's - as long as I still have 2 Z's left to escort Xizor I'm happy.

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Wish I'd brought Xizor, same as the usual list but with flechette torps on Xizor, I'd had a few bad tournaments recently so decided to run double IG's and just have fun. No pressure meant I only won 3 lost 3 but had a blast :D

 

Watching my fellow squadmates play in the final was so awesome, A 186th final was amazing  :D

Edited by nurglez

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Went 2-2 and finished 4th in a small 8 man tourney Sunday with:

 

Xizor + VI + FCS + ATs + Title + Dampeners

 

Thug + R4 + Title + ICT

 

BSS

 

Binary X 2

 

Went with the Thug for the little bit of control and some decent damage output, especially at range 1. Grabbed a BSS because I had a point to spend and I only own 1 Most Wanted ^_^

 

First match lost to a really good player running Whisper, Fel, and a Doom Shuttle. Basically sent most of my force against the doom shuttle to take that out. I figured he would just Vader Xizor and I'd be done. Well got the doom shuttle out of the way, but he blasted Xizor with Whisper and got a crit in. Crit of course was the pilot one where you lose ability and EPT. So now he's a PS 7 with no advantage over Fel or Whisper. Whisper easily was able to track him down and finish him. After that it was mop up with the minions. I think I only took 1 shield off of Whisper. Fel was untouched. Looking back on it, I should have just taken Xizor to face Whisper and take my chances. Then with the rest of my force, try to bottle in Fel and keep him busy.

 

2nd match I faced dual IGs and pretty much cleaned the table pretty soundly. I think I lost the Y-wing and that's it. VI Xizor eats IGs up.

 

3rd match was IG & Boba. Boba has EU and Rec. Spec., forgot what else. IG was B with a Mangler. Decided to take Boba first while I still had a decent force to bring him down. Unfortunately he piloted him fairly well and it took 3 or 4 turns to take him out. I had him dead to rights looking at the board edge with an Ion on him, but his IG managed to take out the Y-wing before it could land the fatal Ion. I did manage to kill Boba, but by that time I had only 1 Z and Xizor left. He killed the Z and it went to time. Got me on points.

 

4th match was a Chewbo list. He made the mistake of putting Chewie in front of my formation without backup from Leebo. I had put a decent amount of damage into Chewie by the time Leebo came into play. So I made the decision to split forces and send a Z and Y against Leebo and the rest to finish off Chewie. Unfortunately, Chewie was tough, but Xizor finally killed him. Then I nearly had Leebo off the board with an Ion, but he was just able to hard 1 and clear it. Literally had a 1 or 2 milliliters til he was off. By the time Xizor joined the fight the Y-wing was smoking and he manged to Mangler my last Z. However, Xizor got in behind the YT and it was all over.

 

The list performed decently and I liked it against the turrets, but I think dodgey stuff will give me fits. I think I need to be a little more aggressive with Xizor at the beginning to force tougher decisions. Not sure about taking it to regionals or not. It can be a little tough to fly at times.

Edited by Jo Jo

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I just wanted to report that I had some more games last night with my "Prince and the New Power Generation".  I used the Flechette Torpedo in two games for the first time last night.  It made a WORLD of difference!  Double stressing someone was incredibly powerful.  I should've been using it much sooner. 

 

I played vs. Bro Bots and a really good player last night.  It was a tough fight, but finally Xizor was left and killed the last 2 Bots!  I double stressed one guy very early and he had to bolt.  I ended up chasing them all game and it was a huge turn around.  First time beating them.

 

I played someone with Rear Admiral Soontir.  I figured out I need to spread the asteroids on my side of the table on where I expect my flanks.  So, I pick a corner to go straight, and put as many asteroids between the middle of board and my side (more towards the middle) that I can.  That will be my flank and that will be where Soontir will try to go through.  He tried to bait with the Decimator, but always went fast and boosted to get out of range of most of my stuff.  Soontir had to take the long way to get through the asteroids.  I decided to cut sharp and chase Soontir.  Maybe one turn where I was bumping a bit or not maximized, but he didn't expect it and wasn't facing me.  Decimator had cut the other direction and took something like 3 turns to get back around an asteroid.  In that time, I chased Soontir into the corner with all my Z's!  Double stressed him with my Flechette and finished him off.  VERY satisfying.  I only lost one Z when I turned to face the Decimator.  I got within R1 and did 11 damage in one round! 

 

I think knowing how to play your main opponents is the trick.

 

YT lists

Their main tactic is to bait you to commit towards a YT and then cut hard and boost out of your arc.  The rest of the list then fires on you as you chase the YT.  Their superior movement allows only a portion of your list to fire at them while they blast away with everything.  You have two tactics.  Look for where they are going to turn hard to get away.  You either block it or just move to be within shooting range of that.  The other option is to cut hard vs. the support and hope that it's out of range of the YT that just boosted away from your former position.  Kill the support fast while the YT is trying to turn around.  Oh, and don't get baited to chase them through asteroids. 

 

BRO BOTS

They will try to bait you with B (the one that gives Gunner) who slow rolls you.  The other one (that always seems to have HLC) will outflank you.  You need to cut for one or the other.  Maybe play conservative the first round, but maybe not.  Z's aren't that fast, but you need to get to one of them as fast as you can before it has the support of the other.  If they can get you in a pincer, then you will be hurting.  Use Flechette Torpedo to stress the one on the approach.  This is important as it will stop the S-loop that you know is coming.  Block with Z's if you can, but not all of them.  You still need shots from others.  They can 3 boost that is green, so watch out for that one.  Block by being spread out.  Force him to try to run.  At that point, you either chase and finish him, or turn and blast the other one that's coming up behind you.  Whichever one will cause the most damage.  I found Xizor is a great finisher and causing damage to them with the Z's is the most important thing.  With higher PS, Xizor is a viscous closer late in the game.  

 

REAR ADMIRAL SOONTIR

I've found asteroid placement is very important.  Cover your flank to slow down Soontir.  You will need to go after one or the other.  He will most likely  bait with Decimator and try to flank.  You either cut after Soontir once he's away from Decimator (since asteroids should be in the way) or you gun hard for Decimator and hope the asteroids slow Soontir down enough. 

 

That's my plan so far.  I'm sure there are some more highly skilled players at Regionals who have had hours and hours of practice more than the local guys, but that's what I've come up with for my strategy.   One more week of practice left.

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What I plan to do is drop 1 pirate and up the rest to PS3 and add feedback array to all of them.

I've flown this setup for a few weeks before switching to 5 z's - it's more of a "fun" list than a competitive list because as the z's feedback themselves to deal damage, they're doing the work for your opponent - ie burning off Xizor's 16 extra points of HP. Unless you can ensure that your feedback arrays are dealing more damage than a 5th z would, it's going to be an uphill battle. Plus they are SO bad at turning around that you really need to be careful with your feedback setup. It'd be harder to go from 5 z's to 4 than 4 to 5. The extra ship is huge.

 

Not that it isn't just the best thing in the world to wipe Soontir from the board in one turn, but your bad matchups get even worse with the loss of the extra z. That being said, it's still a very fun list and I'd love to hear how it does at a bigger event like regionals. 

 

I did very well at regionals with the 5 z list (finishing 12th overall), though I had a different xizor loadout (title, auto, PTL, advanced sensors). The PS2 swarms certainly sucked as you noted and I had to play the range game to get an edge. Winning the war of attrition because huge because you want to have damaged ships against a full health Xizor. The good news is that Xizor can be spectacular against the ships that make up the swarms (he eats z's for breakfast and can arc-dodge b's fairly reliably). 

 

 If you try it out, let us know what you think!

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I am tempted to change the 5 Z out of 3 of the new Rax fighters when they come out, just to see how it runs. Agi is still the same but more firepower per ship.Or see if I can fit 2 Rax 2 Z

 

I like the idea of 2 Rax 2 Z (if the points allow for it).  You can keep the 2 Z's near Xizor as meatshields, while using the superior firepower (and hopefully better dial) of the 2 Rax to keep pressure on your opponent.

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Feedback arrays on 5 Z's do two things for me. First, at the end of the game when you are chasing someone around with one or two hull, it sweeps off the board because 2 attack dice can take a while on a firespray or arc dodger. Secondly, I will happily trade a Z for melting off a phantom or the likes of Soonter. If I wind up with 3 or 4 Z's with 3 hit points instead of 4, I will take those odds to keep from a 3-4 point pounding every round while I am trying to peck a Decimator or Falcon to death.

Edited by balindamood

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If nothing else all those Feedback Arrays should function similar to how bombs work before they are dropped: as an element of board control.  You create a zone where certain ships just absolutely don't want to get caught. 

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Feedback arrays on 5 Z's do two things for me. First, at the end of the game when you are chasing someone around with one or two hull, it sweeps off the board because 2 attack dice can take a while on a firespray or arc dodger. Secondly, I will happily trade a Z for melting off a phantom or the likes of Soonter. If I wind up with 3 or 4 Z's with 3 hit points instead of 4, I will take those odds to keep from a 3-4 point pounding every round while I am trying to peck a Decimator or Falcon to death.

 

 

If nothing else all those Feedback Arrays should function similar to how bombs work before they are dropped: as an element of board control.  You create a zone where certain ships just absolutely don't want to get caught. 

Full agreement on both ideas - Feedback Array z's are just the best. However, that's more a discussion about Feedback Array versus Starvipers (ostensibly the OP's focus).

 

5 Feedback Z's don't really fit in a Xizor or Guri list, but could have all kinds of fun utility elsewhere. The range one threat is absolutely brutal to fragile arc-dodgers like squints and phantoms and definitely gives z's teeth against a traditionally bad match-up.

 

I'm sure we could either resurrect a thread on Feedback Array or just start a new one about the virtues of bugzapper z's :)

But maybe not in this thread.

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Yesterday I lost a game with Xizor, Kavil, and 2 Black Sun Soldiers w/ Feedback Array. My opponent had to leave earlier and since only my Xizor (unharmed) was on the board, opposing to his Jan Ors (one Hull left) and Garven Dreis (2 Hull left), he won. Anyways, it was a blast to fly Xizor with FCS, and the S-loop is a beast; next time I just have to remember to actually use FA, which would have had quite an impact. :)

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I haven't actually gotten a 'real' game in with this yet, but in practice, it seems really promising, and I'm looking forward to trying it out:

 

Guri w/ lone wolf, virago, sensor jammer, autothrusters, inertial dampeners & flechette torpedoes = 42

2 Vigos each w/ autothrusters = 29 x 2

100

 

The Vigos are surprisingly tough.  They are also excellent blockers against higher PS.  I feel that the combination of dial and actions allows the star viper to perform well against pretty much any list type, so its nice to have a list with no real bad matchups (or at least I haven't found any yet...)

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I ran double vipers with a maxed out IG-88B at the Atlanta regional, in what has come to be known as #cobrasquad

Started strong, 3-1, with the vipers carrying me in that 3rd win. They really just have the right combination of speed, firepower and defense for a great air superiority fighter. Over the course of 2 weeks it's become my single favorite ship to fly. Can't wait to pair them up with Bossk.

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The Vigos are surprisingly tough.  They are also excellent blockers against higher PS.  I feel that the combination of dial and actions allows the star viper to perform well against pretty much any list type, so its nice to have a list with no real bad matchups (or at least I haven't found any yet...)

 

I really like the Vigos, myself.

 

I ran double vipers with a maxed out IG-88B at the Atlanta regional, in what has come to be known as #cobrasquad

Started strong, 3-1, with the vipers carrying me in that 3rd win. They really just have the right combination of speed, firepower and defense for a great air superiority fighter. Over the course of 2 weeks it's become my single favorite ship to fly. Can't wait to pair them up with Bossk.

 

I like the squad concept; do you run Autothrusters on the Vipers or are they just naked?

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The Vigos are surprisingly tough.  They are also excellent blockers against higher PS.  I feel that the combination of dial and actions allows the star viper to perform well against pretty much any list type, so its nice to have a list with no real bad matchups (or at least I haven't found any yet...)

 

I really like the Vigos, myself.

 

I ran double vipers with a maxed out IG-88B at the Atlanta regional, in what has come to be known as #cobrasquad

Started strong, 3-1, with the vipers carrying me in that 3rd win. They really just have the right combination of speed, firepower and defense for a great air superiority fighter. Over the course of 2 weeks it's become my single favorite ship to fly. Can't wait to pair them up with Bossk.

 

I like the squad concept; do you run Autothrusters on the Vipers or are they just naked?

 

i'm actually still up in the air on that one. 

 

in my regionals prep i played one night where i faced 3 straight chewie builds. after that i figured, welp, i need the thrusters. but i only had room to squeeze one of them in, so thats what i did (with one point over for a initiative bid) and ended up seeing only one turret (RAC) all day at regionals. the next time i run it, will likely be without autothrusters.

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I ran double vipers with a maxed out IG-88B at the Atlanta regional, in what has come to be known as #cobrasquad

Yeah, I like this list a lot. I call it "Iggy And The Stooges". What I love about it is that the Vipers can slow-roll, they can rush, they can be awesome blockers, they can be a hammer, they can be an anvil, they can kind of do whatever you need them to do at that moment. I wish I could afford Autothrusters for them, but you can't have everything.

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I too have been playing with some lists.  A loaded out Xizor with 4 Binayre+Feedback Array performs VERY well, but I don't have much fun flying it.

So, I've been attempting Xizor with 3 Autoblaster Y-wings.  After MANY games and not a single win, I've given up on the list.  FFG over nerfed the Autoblaster.  That range 1 is just too short.  I've even tried Kavil+EU and it still isn't effective.  If the range is so short, the damage should be higher!  (The cannon has a 3 attack rating)  I personally wish it was a range 2 like all the other turrets and then the 2 attack ratting would be fair.

Thus far, I've had the most success when running two base Starvipers with Autothrusters.  They can survive the opening joust and then easily slip behind their target next round (or end up blocking them).  They are hard to predict (lots of white moves!) and hit hard.

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I too have been playing with some lists.  A loaded out Xizor with 4 Binayre+Feedback Array performs VERY well, but I don't have much fun flying it.

So, I've been attempting Xizor with 3 Autoblaster Y-wings.  After MANY games and not a single win, I've given up on the list.  FFG over nerfed the Autoblaster.  That range 1 is just too short.  I've even tried Kavil+EU and it still isn't effective.  If the range is so short, the damage should be higher!  (The cannon has a 3 attack rating)  I personally wish it was a range 2 like all the other turrets and then the 2 attack ratting would be fair.

Thus far, I've had the most success when running two base Starvipers with Autothrusters.  They can survive the opening joust and then easily slip behind their target next round (or end up blocking them).  They are hard to predict (lots of white moves!) and hit hard.

 

I think that the autoblaster Y is one of the most cost effective ships there is for 20 points, throw in the unhinged and it's also super maneuverable for the scum.  I went to top 16 with 2 of them and Dash and the Ys were key in killing Corran, Soontir, Jake, etc...and did most of the damage to IG 88s even though I lost that game.  We have local player that wins a lot with the Xizor 3 autoblaster list and took them to Top 8.  I think it's a very good list and that autoblaster Ys are great teamed up with Xizor, maybe it just doesn't fit your style.

 

I am starting to warm towards Star Vipers in general, too, though.

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