Josep Maria 685 Posted May 2, 2015 (edited) Hi everyone people! I have a question about those type of powers and talents. Which one do you consider that "manipulates" the other one mind (probably like Influence: Control) and wich one increases own social skills like talents that add your FR to that checks? In general therms, do you consider that those ones that doesn't affect to "Mind Immune" targets are manipulations and the other ones are just like a personal social empower like "Enhance" power and aren't manipulation? The goal of this question is more a morality focused doubt than else. Thanks! Edited May 2, 2015 by Josep Maria Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jaradaj 79 Posted May 3, 2015 (edited) Both could be considered immoral. They are different paths to the same destination (with different consequences); getting someone to do what you want them to. If the moral question comes up just ask yourself "Would what my player wants to do make Emperor Palpatine smile?" If the answer is yes, I'd say it's immoral. Edited May 3, 2015 by jaradaj 1 Josep Maria reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Josep Maria 685 Posted May 3, 2015 I was more focused on: Manipulate someone directly with the Force or just "boost yourself" and then use your own empowered skills, not a direct influence (via the Force). Apart of the concrete intentions about you are seeking (harm or help someone with that "Influence") one is direct manipulation and the other one cannot be considered? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
whafrog 10,384 Posted May 3, 2015 I was more focused on: Manipulate someone directly with the Force or just "boost yourself" and then use your own empowered skills, not a direct influence (via the Force). They're both "direct". Why would there be a moral difference? Either way you're using the Force to manipulate someone's mind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Josep Maria 685 Posted May 3, 2015 I mean direct effect. I know that the final result is the same, the the way seems different. Without considering if intentions are "good or bad", the typical "Jedi Mind Trick" seems a direct influence WITH the power, but, with Influence Control option that empowers your social skills adding your FR to the pool seems an indirect effect. It's like moving a wardrobe. With Move, its a direct application, but with Enhance: Brawn/Athletics is a indirect use. Maybe? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jaradaj 79 Posted May 3, 2015 (edited) I think I see now. A - you use the force to convince the storm troopers that you are not the Jedi they are looking for. I feel that that particular instance of the influence power would be used the most when your character wants to quickly/easily bypass the social counter. For example your character has no time to get past the road block, and more importantly the target does not have an immunity to influence. B - use the force to influence your ability and make it easier for you to influence through other (social) skill checks however this instance has a greater chance of failure. Consider the difficulty of situation A and difficulty of the situation B. This part of the power would most likely be used for big named social counter bosses like HUTT, since they have a stronger immunity to the influence power itself. So situation A is almost a sure thing. However when you can't use influence to quickly get what you want, or your target has a larger immunity to the power itself, I'd consider using the control upgrade. As for the moral focus stuff, I don't think the method is as important to the force as the end resultt is. That's the gm's call. Hope I helped Edited May 3, 2015 by jaradaj 1 Josep Maria reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
