Gandalf's Staff Question

[Nenya 1]

I have a question about Gandalf's Staff.  If you choose the action "discard a shadow card from a non-unique enemy" you must discard the shadow card before you flip it, correct?  There is no time for an action between flipping the card and resolving any shadow effect it may have, correct?

 

Thank you for your help.

[PocketWraith 553]

You are correct. As soon as the shadow card is flipped face up (unless you're using Silver Lamp), the effect happens instantly, and discarding the shadow card wouldn't do anything any more.

[OlorinCZ 68]

True to that. But nevertheless I use it to discard shadow blindly very often.

Edited May 2, 2015 by OlorinCZ

[Mndela 422]

If a shadow effect is +X attack, and you discard the shadow card with gandalf staff, you can do it, and enemy attacks only with his printed attack points.

[tricil 51]

Mndela: Why would the +X attack not count anymore?

 

Edit: I just checked the rules and FAQ again. By the time you can discard the shadow card, the attack is already resolved. I.e., there is no action window between revealing shadow cards and applying their effects. Hence, your statement is false.

 

Edit2: What I meant by "attack is already resolved" is just that the attack has taken place and shadow effects are applied. Thanks Chris for making me aware of the confusion.

Edited May 6, 2015 by tricil

[Chris51261 239]

Did you really check the rules? Because it says "Players may play event cards and take actions at the end of each step." and clearly, resolving shadow effect and determining combat damage are the third and fourth steps respectively. I believe the damage would still apply since the shadow card has resolved, but there is 100% an action window there. Hence, your statement is wrong.

[tricil 51]

(see previous post)

Edited May 6, 2015 by tricil

[Glaurung 444]

Hmmm if shadow cards say +2 attack so if you discard it befote resolve the attack is mean that bonus go away. Shadow card is not event card so bonus apply by the present of shadow card in the game. No card no effect.

If there is some effect which trigger when the shadow card flipped like (discard a ally) then yes no point to discard since effect already was resolved.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Glaurung

[GrandSpleen 1,756]

I agree with Glaurung, that's how I've always played it.  

[Teamjimby 630]

That's an interesting interpretation.  I've always treated it like an event card in that the bonus already triggered so discarding it does nothing.  This sounds like a question for Caleb.

[GrandSpleen 1,756]

Well, consider this guy in the FAQ:

 

"(1.42) Additional attacks by an enemy When an enemy makes an additional attack, discard all of its previously dealt shadow cards before dealing it a new shadow card. "

 

Why bother discarding the previous shadow cards?  If the effect, such as +2 attack, remains through the next attack, there's no reason to move them off the table.  

 

On the other hand, if the effect is gone when the card leaves the table, you might want to clarify in a FAQ that shadow cards should be discarded before a new attack... just so!

[Teamjimby 630]

I thought the intent of that rule is so that you don't accumulate shadow cards due to feint, etc.

 

Either way, I don't see a clear answer.  Sending an email to Caleb.

[tricil 51]

This question has been discussed before when The Rider of the Mark came out: www.boardgamegeek.com/article/11116560

[alogos 171]

On the other hand, if the effect is gone when the card leaves the table, you might want to clarify in a FAQ that shadow cards should be discarded before a new attack... just so!

 

For me, it was in order to know how much shadow card and which were applied during the attack. There is shadow cards that give +1 attack for each shadow, so you hope the previous one were discarded.

 

However, I always considered the bonus lasting until the end of the attack (because it says "attacking ennemy") and independant from the shadow... if an ennemy gained +2 atk from a shadow card that specifically says "until the end of the round", and make an additional attack in the same phase, I considered it to still have the bonus for the additional attack. And nowhere I see why the enemy should lost the bonus from the shadow card after it is resolved and then discarded. Because, well, it HAS been resolved.

[Teamjimby 630]

Looks like there was an official ruling 2 years ago that confirmed the shadow effect still happens even if you discard the card.  I think that is the more consistent rule interpretation.  I already sent an email to Caleb, so I'll let you all know if he says anything differently.

 

Alogos, please add that to the Q&A.

 

Edit: Caleb confirmed the previous ruling

Edited May 7, 2015 by Teamjimby

[GrandSpleen 1,756]

Well, good to know!  I suppose the only cards that are affected are: Shadows Give Way, Rider of the Mark,  and Gandalf's Staff.   I don't think there are any other cards that let you discard shadow cards from an in-progress attack.

[alogos 171]

Alogos, please add that to the Q&A.

Link?

[Teamjimby 630]

www.boardgamegeek.com/article/11116560