Can Someone Clarify MoV

[LordJugrnot 0]

I'm new to the TO world and have run into a small asteroid when it comes to figuring out MoV.

 

Tournament rules state:

 

"At the end of each match, the player who has destroyed more squad points

adds the amount by which his score exceeds his opponent’s score to 100

and records it on his score sheet. The player who has destroyed fewer squad

points subtracts the same amount from 100 and records it on his score sheet.

 

If a player destroys all of his opponent’s ships, his opponent’s squad is worth

100 squad points, even if it is worth fewer squad points to begin with. If both

players destroy an identical number of squad points, each player receives a

Margin of Victory of 100 points. If a player concedes the match, treat all of

his remaining ships as destroyed."

 

I did this all on paper my first 2 events...very time consuming. Some of my friends where like " I have a spread sheet/program for that...." , well I do not have a computer and was doing it old school pen to paper. Then I came across an app on my iphone which is fast and easy to use for running tournaments. However when I compared my written MoV to the apps, the numbers where off.

 

I interpret the bold text (I did that) as in the winner AFTER tabling his opponent comes out with 200 MoV ( even if he lost ships and his opponent only had a 99 point list)

His opponent does 100 - points destroyed for his MoV.

 

The app only gave 200 points to the player who tabled his opponent WITHOUT loosing a single ship. (and any player who tabled a 99 point list only got 199 MoV)

 

I really want the app to be right as it is an awesome tool when your the TO but is it right?

 

Can one of you awesome "Break it right down" guys help me get this right?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

[Vorpal Sword 14,685]

The app was wrong.

Suppose the winner destroyed W points, and the loser destroyed L points. Typically, the winner's MOV is 100 + (W-L), and the loser's MOV is 100 - (W-L). But if the winner tabled the loser, W = 100 regardless of how many points the loser brought.

So here's a practical example. Suppose I have BBBBZ and you have 8 Academy Pilots:

(1) If you destroy a B and a Z and I destroy five TIEs, L = 34 and W = 60. My MOV increases by 100+(60-34) = 126 and yours increases by 100-(60-34)=74.

(2) If you destroy a B and a Z but I destroy all of your TIEs, then L = 34 but now W = 100, despite the fact that I only destroyed 96 points' worth of ships. My MOV increases by 166, and yours increases by 34.

Edited May 2, 2015 by Vorpal Sword

[StevenO 2,996]

Machines can make mistakes with the exceptions so know what you're doing without it before you start using it.

 

There isn't much that can be added to Vorpal's post. For the most part MoV is the difference in points killed +/- 100 points because someone didn't want to deal with negative numbers.  The exception is when all of someone's ships are destroyed where instead of actual points destroyed are used you could maximum points allowed.

 

Taken to another extreme I believe there is an 86 point dual Phantom build somewhere.  If one Phantom is killed you get the points spent on that but then that second is worth 14 points more if lost.

[Otacon 889]

The app was wrong.

Suppose the winner destroyed W points, and the loser destroyed L points. Typically, the winner's MOV is 100 + (W-L), and the loser's MOV is 100 - (W+L). But if the winner tabled the loser, W = 100 regardless of how many points the loser brought.

So here's a practical example. Suppose I have BBBBZ and you have 8 Academy Pilots:

(1) If you destroy a B and a Z and I destroy five TIEs, L = 34 and W = 60. My MOV increases by 100+(60-34) = 126 and yours increases by 100-(60-34)=74.

(2) If you destroy a B and a Z but I destroy all of your TIEs, then L = 34 but now W = 100, despite the fact that I only destroyed 96 points' worth of ships. My MOV increases by 166, and yours increases by 34.

 

The app was actually correct in his explanation of it, it's his expectation that was wrong. He's saying he thought that if you table your opponent you get 100+100 = 200 MoV points regardless of losses, but the app was still taking out losses in the event of a tabling, which it's supposed to do.

 

Though it sounds like he was also doing the loser's MoV incorrectly too, so your examples should hopefully make it clear, though you may want to fix the typo 

Edited May 1, 2015 by Otacon

[StevenO 2,996]

The app was actually correct in his explanation of it, it's his expectation that was wrong. He's saying he thought that if you table your opponent you get 100+100 = 200 MoV points regardless of losses, but the app was still taking out losses in the event of a tabling, which it's supposed to do.

 

Though it sounds like he was also doing the loser's MoV incorrectly too, so your examples should hopefully make it clear, though you may want to fix the typo 

 

 

That would be a big problem based on conceptualization.  When you think "opponent's squad is worth full points" equates to having the maximum possible MoV you are completely discounting what your opponent has done.

 

Considering all the recent complaints about MoV I suspect they would be ten times worse if "tabling" your opponent automatically gave you a 200 point MoV which presumably leave 0 points for the guy that lost.  If that is how scoring was done you'd do everything possible to make sure games go time even if you are losing because even if you destroy 80% of your opponents squadron you'd get screwed over if he manages to finish you off.

 

A game where one side get tabled could have MoV scores of 112 and 88 when all is said an done which is a long ways from 200/0.

[Vorpal Sword 14,685]

...you may want to fix the typo 

There are no typos in my post. The loser's MOV increases by 100 - (W - L).

[Otacon 889]

 

...you may want to fix the typo 

There are no typos in my post. The loser's MOV increases by 100 - (W - L).

 

 

 

Suppose the winner destroyed W points, and the loser destroyed L points. Typically, the winner's MOV is 100 + (W-L), and the loser's MOV is 100 - (W+L). But if the winner tabled the loser, W = 100 regardless of how many points the loser brought.

 

Your calculations after that are correctly subtracting but you've got the wrong operator in your listing of the formulas. It'd be pretty brutal if the loser ended up with negative MoV in a close match. I probably should have been more clear at first about what I was pointing out instead of being cheeky about it.

Edited May 1, 2015 by Otacon

[Vorpal Sword 14,685]

...you may want to fix the typo 

There are no typos in my post. The loser's MOV increases by 100 - (W - L).

 

 

Suppose the winner destroyed W points, and the loser destroyed L points. Typically, the winner's MOV is 100 + (W-L), and the loser's MOV is 100 - (W+L). But if the winner tabled the loser, W = 100 regardless of how many points the loser brought.

 

Your calculations after that are correctly subtracting but you've got the wrong operator in your listing of the formulas. It'd be pretty brutal if the loser ended up with negative MoV in a close match. I probably should have been more clear at first about what I was pointing out instead of being cheeky about it.

Sorry, I still don't see the error.

If the winner kills 60 points and the loser kills 34, I'm saying the loser's MOV changes by 100 - (60 - 34) = 100 - 26 = 76.

As you have it, with the subtraction changed to addition, the loser's MOV would be 100 - (60 + 34) = 100 - 94 = 6.

[Otacon 889]

That's the point, I didn't change anything in my quote of you, I was just trying to make obvious where the issue was. You have it as + in your original post.

Edited May 1, 2015 by Otacon

[StevenO 2,996]

Oops, now I see it up there in the second sentence of the second paragraph.  It isn't where the numbers are thrown in.  Strangely if written as 100 - W + L it would be right.  I guess the easy thing is to remember what a player's MoV is:

 

Player MoV = 100 + Player Kills - Opponent's Kills where your opponent uses the same formula from his PoV and both add to 200 when all is done.

[Vorpal Sword 14,685]

That's the point, I didn't change anything in my quote of you, I was just trying to make obvious where the issue was. You have it as + in your original post.

:-[

...fixed. Thanks for sticking with me.

[Quarrel 631]

There's a quick way to double-check the MOV for a single game: if you add both players' together, you will always get 200.

[Otacon 889]

 

That's the point, I didn't change anything in my quote of you, I was just trying to make obvious where the issue was. You have it as + in your original post.

:-[

...fixed. Thanks for sticking with me.

 

 

No worries, not always able to get things across clearly on the internet.

[StevenO 2,996]

It wasn't too hard to see when you actually knew where to look but but when something is used correctly in several places you can miss the one place where it is wrong.  That's why I pointed out by paragraph and line.