Unleash vs. Harm

[verdantsf 602]

I run a mostly EotE campaign, so I'm not as familiar with all the nuts and bolts of FnD. One of my players surprised me when he mentioned that Unleash doesn't ignore soak. Harm takes less FR to gain and it cuts right through soak, so I just assumed that Unleash was even deadlier. It seems odd that it is strictly weaker from a pure numbers perspective. 

Edited April 30, 2015 by verdantsf

[MuttonchopMac 381]

If I'm not mistaken (I may very well be), the Discipline check functions as a ranged attack, so successes add to the damage, which is based off of Will. A character with high Willpower and high Discipline could get some nice damage (to say nothing of Crit 1 if you master it), and you can spend a third Force pip to add successes (damage) equal to Strength upgrades (up to +3). Alternatively, you could spend that extra Force pip on 3 advantage and annihilate a minion group or dish out a massive critical to one person.

 

So it can get freaking lethal. 

 

Harm can dish out Intellect + Medicine +1 damage (only 1 strength upgrade available). Really, it's not that much better, apart from ignoring soak, because there's no potential for additional successes on that Discipline ranged attack. And the critical aspect of Unleash is where it will really shine.

 

EDIT: Don't forget getting Burn on Unleash, for extra damage equal to Willpower x Willpower over time. Also, in reading the errata, it says that you can activate the Strength upgrade multiple times. If I'm reading that right, that means every Force pip beyond 2 can be +3 successes / advantage.

Edited April 30, 2015 by MuttonchopMac

[Rortharr 98]

I don't have the Beta in front of me right now, but I also think that Unleash has a longer range than Harm. So Harm might be more lethal with less XP, but it requires you to close with enemies, which (especially if you're facing melee-focused adversaries) can be very risky for a PC. So that might be the balancing factor.

[Donovan Morningfire 10,200]

Unleash has a few things going for it.

 

One, as MuttonchopMac mentioned, using it requires a Discipline check, and since it counts as a ranged attack roll, that means you get to add your successes to the damage result.  Harm doesn't have that, and in fact has a flat damage value based upon a characteristic (Intellect) that's probably not a high priority for most Force use builds, where Unleash's base damage is tied to Willpower, which is a frequently prioritized characteristic for Force users since it governs strain threshold and is tied to the ever useful Discipline skill.

 

Also, Unleash has the option to inflict some fairly nasty additional effects that Harm can't, first and foremost being a critical injury, but also the option of Ensnare as well as the choice to spend Advantage to inflict strain on the target in addition to the wounds generated on Unleash's Discipline check.

 

It's also easier to get to those Strength Upgrades in Protect/Unleash, which at Force Rating of 3 you should have little problem generating enough Force points to trigger the base power plus Strength Upgrades.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Donovan Morningfire

[kaosoe 7,573]

It's also worth noting the number of people we see die in the films from unleash vs bind. Vader has killed several in the OT alone with bind, and Palpatine killed 2 (ish) with unleash. The first was Windu, who presumably died not from the ability, but from the landing of his fall. The second was Vader himself, who died from the complications of the Unleash attack.

[Jereru 171]

The most important thing, which no one mentioned: it is LIGHTNING! (well, doesn't have to, but who wouldn't use lightning having the chance?)

[i.jenkinson 54]

The most important thing, which no one mentioned: it is LIGHTNING! (well, doesn't have to, but who wouldn't use lightning having the chance?)

 

Also you get to speak the imortal line "You have failed the Empire for the last time"

[capnhayes 28]

I have questions about stuff like when Jedi "Force Push" opponents back, like in Episode I, and also in Episode III. First wouldn't it be Move in this game to push someone back? Second in Episode III, Obi-Wan and Anakin use (Move, I presume) on each other at the same time and seem to struggle and then both are pushed back? Would it be a competitive Discipline check, and since they both apparently made the check and they both push each other away doing 10 damage to each other since they are both silhouette 1. I was just wondering how you guys were handling these situations.  

[Jereru 171]

I have to say I am very, VERY against using an enemy as a throwing weapon. And I'm the one playing the Jedi in our campaign. As for Force pushing/pulling someone, even smashing him against the wall, yeah, I guess a Discipline vs Discipline roll would do. Also, the Niman tree has a Force pull (Draw Closer).

[EldritchFire 499]

The "Force push" ability is indeed the Move power. As for the struggle, that could just be the narrative description of a despair. Or a successful Move check that generated enough Threat to cause a knockdown on whomever did the power check (it's hard to tell who the "initiator" is).

-EF

Edited May 14, 2015 by EldritchFire

[Richardbuxton 7,319]

The "Firce push" ability is indeed the Move power. As for the struggle, that could just be the narrative description of a despair. Or a successful Move check that generated enough Threat to cause a knockdown on whomever did the power check (it's hard to tell who the "initiator" is).

-EF

In an rpg, i would say the initiator is usually the PC, whichever that happens to be i.e Let the players roll the dice

[EldritchFire 499]

Normally I'd agree with you, Richardbuxton, but I was replying specifically to capnhayes' qustion about Anakin & Obi-wan in Episode III. I'm not sure who initiated the Force "push-off" and they're both PCs at that point.

-EF

[Richardbuxton 7,319]

Normally I'd agree with you, Richardbuxton, but I was replying specifically to capnhayes' qustion about Anakin & Obi-wan in Episode III. I'm not sure who initiated the Force "push-off" and they're both PCs at that point.

-EF

Sure, i do agree, its hard to tell in the movie scene.

Edited May 14, 2015 by Richardbuxton