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eagletsi111

Extra Munitions and X-wing?

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That's funny. They probably would have put "place 1 ordnance token on each other equipped..." but they ran out of room on the card.

 

Obviously even if you follow the rules and place an ordnance token on Extra Muntions, you can never take them off.

 

Isn't there a crit that says to discard an upgrade card?

 

Could you, in a tournament for example, use this to place and subsequently discard the token instead?

Edited by Ken at Sunrise

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That's funny. They probably would have put "place 1 ordnance token on each other equipped..." but they ran out of room on the card.

 

Obviously even if you follow the rules and place an ordnance token on Extra Muntions, you can never take them off.

 

Isn't there a crit that says to discard an upgrade card?

 

Could you, in a tournament for example, use this to place and subsequently discard the token instead?

 

 

MIND = BLOWN!

 

 

There actually is a use for putting a token on the card then!

 

 

Munitions Failure: Immediately choose 1 of your secondary weapon upgrade cards and discard it.  Then flip this card facedown.
 
 
So: choose Extra Munitions and then discard the token instead.
 
BRILLIANT!

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Munitions Failure Crit

"Immediately choose 1 of your secondary weapon Upgrade cards and discard it"

 

Extra Munitions (torp)

"When you equip this card, place 1 ordnance token on each equipped (torp),(missile), and (bomb) Upgrade card. When you are instructed to discard an Upgrade card, you may discard 1 ordnance token on that card instead."

 

Seems entirely legal to place a token on the extra munitions card itself and then discard that useless token on the Munitions Failure Crit.  Might even be intended?  Probably not, in which case we should see an FAQ.

 

Interesting that this apparent pointless interaction might make a difference.  A lot of hypotheticals have to come together but it could will happen eventually.

 

Edit: samurai'ed

Edited by gamblertuba

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One thing the X-wing has going for it is astromech slot.  R3-A2 and others are excellent for their cost.  I'm not arguing that the X-wing does not need a nudge, but don't discount what astros can do, and an astro might be a way to give it what it needs, though you would have to be careful that it did not boost other ships too much, esp the e-wing.

 

I would like to see something that gives it more manuverabilty. It should be able to out fly a b-wing thematically.  i don't think more durability is the answer, though it would be nice still have hull upgrade as an option.  Barrel roll, boost, something that improves the dial, that's the way I would go.

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Munitions Failure Crit

"Immediately choose 1 of your secondary weapon Upgrade cards and discard it"

 

Extra Munitions (torp)

"When you equip this card, place 1 ordnance token on each equipped (torp),(missile), and (bomb) Upgrade card. When you are instructed to discard an Upgrade card, you may discard 1 ordnance token on that card instead."

 

Seems entirely legal to place a token on the extra munitions card itself and then discard that useless token on the Munitions Failure Crit.  Might even be intended?  Probably not, in which case we should see an FAQ.

 

Interesting that this apparent pointless interaction might make a difference.  A lot of hypotheticals have to come together but it could will happen eventually.

 

Edit: samurai'ed

 

Never mind then. Extra Munitions isn't a secondary weapon, even though the Torpedo Slot is 99% secondary weapons. Doesn't work. 

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Munitions Failure Crit

"Immediately choose 1 of your secondary weapon Upgrade cards and discard it"

 

Extra Munitions (torp)

"When you equip this card, place 1 ordnance token on each equipped (torp),(missile), and (bomb) Upgrade card. When you are instructed to discard an Upgrade card, you may discard 1 ordnance token on that card instead."

 

Seems entirely legal to place a token on the extra munitions card itself and then discard that useless token on the Munitions Failure Crit.  Might even be intended?  Probably not, in which case we should see an FAQ.

 

Interesting that this apparent pointless interaction might make a difference.  A lot of hypotheticals have to come together but it could will happen eventually.

 

Edit: samurai'ed

 

Never mind then. Extra Munitions isn't a secondary weapon, even though the Torpedo Slot is 99% secondary weapons. Doesn't work. 

 

 

I thought a bomb was not a secondary weapon.  Is a torp a secondary weapon?  The card fills the torp slot.

Edited by Ken at Sunrise

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It depends on the card. The upgrade TYPE doesn't determine whether it is a secondary weapon or not. Hot Shot Blaster is a secondary weapon, but not all Illicit upgrades are secondary weapons. While most of the Torpedo and Missile upgrades are secondary weapons, Extra Munitions and Chardaan Refit are not. 

 

So you do place the token on Extra Munitions, but it is not a legal card to discard from that specific crit, so you can never discard the token instead. 

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Munitions Failure Crit

"Immediately choose 1 of your secondary weapon Upgrade cards and discard it"

 

Extra Munitions (torp)

"When you equip this card, place 1 ordnance token on each equipped (torp),(missile), and (bomb) Upgrade card. When you are instructed to discard an Upgrade card, you may discard 1 ordnance token on that card instead."

 

Seems entirely legal to place a token on the extra munitions card itself and then discard that useless token on the Munitions Failure Crit.  Might even be intended?  Probably not, in which case we should see an FAQ.

 

Interesting that this apparent pointless interaction might make a difference.  A lot of hypotheticals have to come together but it could will happen eventually.

 

Edit: samurai'ed

 

Never mind then. Extra Munitions isn't a secondary weapon, even though the Torpedo Slot is 99% secondary weapons. Doesn't work. 

 

 

I thought a bomb was not a secondary weapon.  Is a torp a secondary weapon?  The card fills the torp slot.

 

It's not a weapon any more than the Chardaan Refit is a weapon. 

The lack of common sense out of desperation here is disturbing me. 

I hope they'll put a Reference Card in with it to make it clearer. 

Edited by gabe69velasquez

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So "Munitions Failure" cannot wipe out a bomb card...  Makes sense now but had not run into that situation before.

That is correct. Munitions failure cannot get rid of bombs, chaardan refits, extra munitions or bomb loadout but can force you to discard hot shot blaster.

Extra munitions technically puts a token on itself and bomb loadout, but there is nothing in the game that is capable of interacting with those tokens, but it does not put a token on hot shot blaster.

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So now that we know Extra Munitions requires a Torpedo slot and the X-wing only has a single Torpedo slot.    We know it cannot take extra munitions.

Technically it can. Equip the card and place a token on it. Easy.

It's a completely legal waste of two perfectly good points.

 

Technically it can't, as you say put the token on the Extra munitions card because the tokens are the extra munitions, the tokens go on the actual torpedo/missile/bomb upgrades. With just the Extra Munitions the token stays in the token bin. Jeez, I can't believe 5 people liked your faulty reasoning.

 

 

The Chardaan doesn't really require a sacrifice moreso than it just makes all missiles cost +2 points on an A-Wing.

 

That's why Proton Rockets seem so amazing on A-Wings for 3 points, it's because they actually cost 5 points on an A-Wing.

 

A fix shouldn't really require the ship to sacrifice something meaningful, then it's not really a fix, it's just another upgrade option. That's why I don't like OP's idea, the 1 point is a steep price to pay for something the X-Wing should already have for free.

 

I'd rather see an X-Wing only Torpedo upgrade that cost -1 point that allowed you to discard it to discard a face down damage card at the end of the round.

The first part of what you are saying makes no sense, as though you've completely misread the card, because the Chadaan refit is -2 points not +2 points, and it uses up the missile slot, so it's not bringing the cost of Proton Rockets down to 3 from 5. Sorry to tell you but you've been using that card all wrong and need to reread it.

 

We were discussing Wave 7 upgrades at the store and came up with something we all liked, and I would like to bounce it off of the FFG Forums.

 

So now that we know Extra Munitions requires a Torpedo slot and the X-wing only has a single Torpedo slot.    We know it cannot take extra munitions.

 

But what if the fix for the X-wing is a title upgrade that add's and extra torpedo slot.

 

Title:

T65B

1 pts

Add one hull and extra torpedo slot.

 

This allows an instant fix, and allow the X-wing to have access to Extra Munitions.

Were thinking they will do something like this to boost the X-wing, especially since the Proton Torpedo and X-wing are always referenced in the movies. Plus Major Juggler stated, "He believes the way to fix the X-wing is a Hull upgrade.

Which according to this card, would basically cost 1 for hull upgrade and 0 for extra torpedo slot.

Do you think FFG will do something like this for X-wing to become unique again?

What do you think?

 

eagletsi111

If you add an extra torpedo slot to the X-wing you can have two torpedoes

If you use the Extra Munitions card in one of the torpedo slots you get...

wait for it...

 two torpedoes

what the hell are you smoking man?

 

I like the title card idea for the X-wing but not for ordinance. 

Specific Squad leader title cards that give bonuses to the squadron would be way better.

 

Red Squadron Leader

Rogue Squadron Leader

etc.

 

I don't think trying to turn the X-wing into a K-wing is the right direction.

If you want to play with X-wing fixes there's a long list of variants here:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/X-wing_starfighter

 

 

 

The difference is that with Extra Munitions 2 torpedoes are different cost and less then buying 2 out right.   Two protons would be 8 points, but 2 with extra Munitions costs 6 points

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Here is a counter proposal. Why not simply have a title card that functions like Extra Munitions, but with an additional penalty of some kind. It seems Extra Munitions was introduced to use tokens so that the munitions tokens might be able to be used by future upgrades too. Either by creating other types of upgrades that create them or manipulate them. You don't have to give the ship a means to equip Extra Munitions just to equip munitions tokens.

My issue with giving the X-wing a munitions token though is that it would detract from the roles of the B-wing and Y-wing. It would need something different to distinguish itself.

One way to achieve this might be to give it a title card which grants it a munitions token at the cost of lowering it's torpedo's attack power by 1 or by altering it's range. In this way it would not encroach on the roles of other ships. It would still be beneficial as you could get more use out of torpedoes with secondary effects such as ion torpedoes and flechette torpedoes. The existence of a penalty would also justify the title being cheap or even free.

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So now that we know Extra Munitions requires a Torpedo slot and the X-wing only has a single Torpedo slot. We know it cannot take extra munitions.

Technically it can. Equip the card and place a token on it. Easy.

It's a completely legal waste of two perfectly good points.

Technically it can't, as you say put the token on the Extra munitions card because the tokens are the extra munitions, the tokens go on the actual torpedo/missile/bomb upgrades. With just the Extra Munitions the token stays in the token bin. Jeez, I can't believe 5 people liked your faulty reasoning.

The Chardaan doesn't really require a sacrifice moreso than it just makes all missiles cost +2 points on an A-Wing.

That's why Proton Rockets seem so amazing on A-Wings for 3 points, it's because they actually cost 5 points on an A-Wing.

A fix shouldn't really require the ship to sacrifice something meaningful, then it's not really a fix, it's just another upgrade option. That's why I don't like OP's idea, the 1 point is a steep price to pay for something the X-Wing should already have for free.

I'd rather see an X-Wing only Torpedo upgrade that cost -1 point that allowed you to discard it to discard a face down damage card at the end of the round.

The first part of what you are saying makes no sense, as though you've completely misread the card, because the Chadaan refit is -2 points not +2 points, and it uses up the missile slot, so it's not bringing the cost of Proton Rockets down to 3 from 5. Sorry to tell you but you've been using that card all wrong and need to reread it.

We were discussing Wave 7 upgrades at the store and came up with something we all liked, and I would like to bounce it off of the FFG Forums.

So now that we know Extra Munitions requires a Torpedo slot and the X-wing only has a single Torpedo slot. We know it cannot take extra munitions.

But what if the fix for the X-wing is a title upgrade that add's and extra torpedo slot.

Title:

T65B

1 pts

Add one hull and extra torpedo slot.

This allows an instant fix, and allow the X-wing to have access to Extra Munitions.

Were thinking they will do something like this to boost the X-wing, especially since the Proton Torpedo and X-wing are always referenced in the movies. Plus Major Juggler stated, "He believes the way to fix the X-wing is a Hull upgrade.

Which according to this card, would basically cost 1 for hull upgrade and 0 for extra torpedo slot.

Do you think FFG will do something like this for X-wing to become unique again?

What do you think?

eagletsi111

If you add an extra torpedo slot to the X-wing you can have two torpedoes

If you use the Extra Munitions card in one of the torpedo slots you get...

wait for it...

two torpedoes

what the hell are you smoking man?

I like the title card idea for the X-wing but not for ordinance.

Specific Squad leader title cards that give bonuses to the squadron would be way better.

Red Squadron Leader

Rogue Squadron Leader

etc.

I don't think trying to turn the X-wing into a K-wing is the right direction.

If you want to play with X-wing fixes there's a long list of variants here:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/X-wing_starfighter

Ok if you are going to be generally snarky and asinine for the love of God at least be right... Every part of your post is riddled with errors and idiocy... I'm going to go over all of it even though some points were already made... Because you know... You need to be called out for being an ass and a wrong one at that.

First off you DO in fact have to put a token on extra munitions (even though it's worthless) and you CAN take it even if you take/have no other upgrades for it to interact with (again it would be worthless but the option is there) which makes Eagketsi TECHNICALLY right.

Second, the first part of what tvboy says DOES make sense... It's funny cuz it almost seems like you MISREAD HIS ENTIRE POST. He never said that refit makes missiles cost two less he said it makes them cost TWO MORE. Which it does by adding the tax to them inadvertently. You get a nice reduction in cost of the ship but if you take prockets then you obviously can't take the price reduction... Therefore taking prockets actually costs 5 points!!! Le Gasp tvboy knew what he was talking about!! And you totally misread his point and looked like a fool for it.

Third, what are YOU smoking man?! Yes adding a slot and taking extra munitions results in the same NUMBER of torps but it could affect THE PRICE!! Any torp that costs more than 2 would benefit by having a reduction in price, with the more expensive torps benefiting by a higher overall reduction. This would allow you to decide between having flexibility of choosing two different ones or a reduced price for two of the same.

Seriously why are you being such an ass? All you are doing is making yourself look bad... Then you compound it by trying to act like you are smarter than them while being wrong which just makes you look foolish. You could easily have made those points without attacking their intellect... So for that your intellect has been attacked and you are now the fool you tried to make them out to be.

Edit: kudos to tvboy and eagletsi for taking the high road and not stooping to the mudslinging that this clown seems to enjoy... Sadly I'm not quite as strong or noble enough to let a troll go about unaccosted.

Edited by Umbranex

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X-Wing Trainer Variant.

 

0 points. Title. X-Wing Only. May not be equipped on ships with PS 4 or higher. This ship gains 1 Hull.

 

 

I kinda like this.   I don't like the fluff, why would only PS 3 or lower ships get this.   I don't see any negative effect.    Why would the other pilots not want it.   Also, when testing new prototypes they don't give them to inexperience pilots they give them to more veteran pilots.

 

How about this:

 

X-wing Heavy:

0 Points

Replace Torpedo slot, with this card

Add +1 hull to your X-wing

 

or 

 

X-wing Heavy:

0 Points

All 3 turns count as red

Add +1 hull to your X-wing

 
This allows you to gain the +1 Hull for free, but not without losing something.
Edited by eagletsi111

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X-Wing Trainer Variant.

 

0 points. Title. X-Wing Only. May not be equipped on ships with PS 4 or higher. This ship gains 1 Hull.

 

 

I kinda like this.   I don't like the fluff, why would only PS 3 or lower ships get this.   I don't see any negative effect.    Why would the other pilots not want it.   Also, when testing new prototypes they don't give them to inexperience pilots they give them to more veteran pilots.

 

How about this:

 

X-wing Heavy:

0 Points

Replace Torpedo slot, with this card

Add +1 hull to your X-wing

 

or 

 

X-wing Heavy:

0 Points

All 3 turns count as red

Add +1 hull to your X-wing

 
This allows you to gain the +1 Hull for free, but not without losing something.

 

Soo, kinda a little bit like bomb loadout here?

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X-Wing Trainer Variant.

 

0 points. Title. X-Wing Only. May not be equipped on ships with PS 4 or higher. This ship gains 1 Hull.

 

 

I kinda like this.   I don't like the fluff, why would only PS 3 or lower ships get this.   I don't see any negative effect.    Why would the other pilots not want it.   Also, when testing new prototypes they don't give them to inexperience pilots they give them to more veteran pilots.

 

How about this:

 

X-wing Heavy:

0 Points

Replace Torpedo slot, with this card

Add +1 hull to your X-wing

 

or 

 

X-wing Heavy:

0 Points

All 3 turns count as red

Add +1 hull to your X-wing

 
This allows you to gain the +1 Hull for free, but not without losing something.

 

Soo, kinda a little bit like bomb loadout here?

 

 

I guess you could say that, but more like beefing up the ship by removing torps or making it heavier so you lose white 3 turns to red 3 turns due to weight and engine power.

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X-Wing Trainer Variant.

 

0 points. Title. X-Wing Only. May not be equipped on ships with PS 4 or higher. This ship gains 1 Hull.

 

 

I kinda like this.   I don't like the fluff, why would only PS 3 or lower ships get this.   I don't see any negative effect.    Why would the other pilots not want it.   Also, when testing new prototypes they don't give them to inexperience pilots they give them to more veteran pilots.

 

The point is that it's a trainer variant, designed for new pilots to fly. It lacks some enhanced features in order to be easier to fly and tough enough to survive the inevitable piloting errors that your Rookies will be making.

 

The balance reason for PS3 or lower is that named pilots pretty much don't need the hull point to be worth taking, and a different title might be more appropriate for Red Squadron (PS4) or above.

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