Amirol 5 Posted April 27, 2015 Hi FFG-hivemind! Me and a friend had a lively game of 300 points the other night and as many of you, we also ran into a discussion about firing arcs and line of sight. I will here present the two arguments and eagerly await your response. The intention was to fire the front battery of my nebulon B into the side arc of his Victory star destroyer. Case one: Legal https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2OG_HtBWo55VnZvcHA0emFsazg/view?usp=sharing The VSD's base is within my Nebulon frigates front firing arc, and I can trace a line of sight line from my dot to his without crossing any lines on either base. Case two: Illegal https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2OG_HtBWo55RE5qaEFvaW1QYWM/view?usp=sharing The VSD's base is in my firing arc, but I cannot trace the line of sight line to his dot without crossing the imaginary line extending from my nebulons base card. Apart from this, the VSD's side dot is not within my firing arc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DWRR 898 Posted April 27, 2015 To be in arc the specific hull zone you want to attack needs to be in your arc. So in Case one the VSD's side hull zone is NOT in you front arc. In case 2 the only lines you need to worry about crossing are the ones printed on the base, not imaginary lines extended from the base. So in this example the Neb has the VSD rear hull zone in it's fire arc, but sadly canno ttrace a LOS to that zone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DWRR 898 Posted April 27, 2015 If the Neb was pointing maybe a few degrees further left it would catch the VSD's side hull zone in it's front arc and would still have LOS, alas it does not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DWRR 898 Posted April 27, 2015 Additionally you only worry about crossing fire arc lines on an enemy ship when determining LOS. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amirol 5 Posted April 27, 2015 I would think that the firing arcs on the VSD is irrelevant when targeted? How can such a large ship as the VSD have such a tiny side, if you are only allowed to target the area within it's side firing arc? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DWRR 898 Posted April 27, 2015 (edited) The defending hull zone (part of the base contained within the arc lines) must be within your own ships Firing arc. Page 2 of the Rules Reference... If the attacker is a ship, the defending squadron or hull zone must be inside the attacking hull zone's firing arc. Edited April 27, 2015 by DWRR Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amirol 5 Posted April 27, 2015 Alright thanks If it's the rules, it's the rules, even though it doesn't make sense to me logically Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
willismaximus 104 Posted April 27, 2015 Alright thanks If it's the rules, it's the rules, even though it doesn't make sense to me logically Yeah, there have been a lot of issues with attack rules. Its best to try not to think logically or realistically when it comes to this stuff, since it may not always make perfect sense. Like you said, rules are rules. A lot of people seem to have trouble accepting that for some reason. 1 omegalazarus reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amirol 5 Posted April 27, 2015 Yeah, like.. why does the VSD, the longest ship in the game so far, have the shortest side hull zones Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wonderpug 219 Posted April 27, 2015 Yeah, like.. why does the VSD, the longest ship in the game so far, have the shortest side hull zones Another way to think of it is that the Frigate has a frustratingly narrow front arc. Replace the Frigate with a VSD or a Corvette in the same position, and I bet either of those ships would have been able to get a forward arc shot on the VSD's side. 1 DWRR reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DWRR 898 Posted April 27, 2015 Yeah, like.. why does the VSD, the longest ship in the game so far, have the shortest side hull zones Another way to think of it is that the Frigate has a frustratingly narrow front arc. Replace the Frigate with a VSD or a Corvette in the same position, and I bet either of those ships would have been able to get a forward arc shot on the VSD's side. Exactly this! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smuggler 556 Posted April 27, 2015 Yeah, like.. why does the VSD, the longest ship in the game so far, have the shortest side hull zones If you count just the tip of the wedge as the front and the entire length of the side as the side, it would not have a front hullzone at all... 1 DWRR reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ghost Dancer 401 Posted April 29, 2015 (edited) Alright thanks If it's the rules, it's the rules, even though it doesn't make sense to me logically Once I grasped that firing arc, LoS and range were three independent conditions, it 'clicked' and makes perfect logical sense. Having small zones/arcs is a double-edged sword though - harder to be hit but also harder TO hit, and vice versa for large zones/arcs. I think that some people find it hard to grasp these rules (and others) as they are basing their expectations/logic on other games (a good example is shooting before moving - this is the first game I've seen that does this so took a bit of getting used to). Armada isn't other games, it is its own thing so before playing this game its best to unlearn what you have learned Edited April 29, 2015 by Ghost Dancer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amirol 5 Posted April 29, 2015 Yeah I know it's not other games It's just it doesnt make sense to me that a ship the size of a VSD has such large sections of it's hull that are basically invulnerable from certain angles Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ghost Dancer 401 Posted April 29, 2015 (edited) I see what you are getting at with the wedge shape of Star Destroyers, but in game-terms it makes sense to have simpler/standard shaped hull zones. It just doesn;t bother me as game-design should always trump 'logic' IMO. I guess fluff-wise it is the area that each shield generator covers. Edited April 29, 2015 by Ghost Dancer 1 Amirol reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wildhorn 453 Posted April 30, 2015 Alright thanks If it's the rules, it's the rules, even though it doesn't make sense to me logically Once I grasped that firing arc, LoS and range were three independent conditions, it 'clicked' and makes perfect logical sense. Having small zones/arcs is a double-edged sword though - harder to be hit but also harder TO hit, and vice versa for large zones/arcs. I think that some people find it hard to grasp these rules (and others) as they are basing their expectations/logic on other games (a good example is shooting before moving - this is the first game I've seen that does this so took a bit of getting used to). Armada isn't other games, it is its own thing so before playing this game its best to unlearn what you have learned Yeah, the attacking before moving is really something "new" and it is interesting and refreshing. I like it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amirol 5 Posted April 30, 2015 (edited) I see what you are getting at with the wedge shape of Star Destroyers, but in game-terms it makes sense to have simpler/standard shaped hull zones. It just doesn;t bother me as game-design should always trump 'logic' IMO. I guess fluff-wise it is the area that each shield generator covers. Yeah that's true, Game-design should come before fluff. And I guess that that explanation with the shield generator partially explains it Edited April 30, 2015 by Amirol Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
