Wingfoot

[Courchevel 40]

Let's say we are playing with 4 players. I quest with Beravor with a wingfoot on her naming enemy. The first card from the encounter reinforcement is an enemy, but that enemy is making an immediate attack (Harad Elite for instance).

-Is beravor ready before the attack starts ?

-Can I use Beravor to block ?

-Can I use her to draw cards before declaring defender ?

After attack is finished (beravor exhausted again), the next card from encounter is another enemy :

-Does Beravor ready again ?

I do not clearly get the wingfoot action (is it a kind of response ?)

Thanks in advance

Edited April 26, 2015 by Courchevel

[Teamjimby 630]

Interesting question.  The FAQ says "(1.26) Enemy attacks outside of the combat phase: If an enemy attacks outside of the combat phase, it is still dealt a shadow card at the beginning of the attack. Then follow the 4 steps under Phase 6 “Combat” in the rules. Any shadow cards dealt to the attacking enemy are discarded after the attack resolves."

 

You are allowed to take actions after each of the 4 steps, which are choose an enemy, declare defender, resolve shadow, and determine combat damage.  Meanwhile the response triggers "if a card of the named type is revealed" and the attack triggers "when revealed".

 

So...

- She would ready before the attack and you could use her to block. 

- There is an action window between the combat steps, so you could use her to draw. 

- Wingfoot isn't limited and doesn't exhaust, so it could trigger again.

[Courchevel 40]

Thank you teamjimby

[DukeWellington 312]

Congratulations on finding a situation in which wingfoot is better than light of valinor.

[chuckles 89]

Interesting question.  The FAQ says "(1.26) Enemy attacks outside of the combat phase: If an enemy attacks outside of the combat phase, it is still dealt a shadow card at the beginning of the attack. Then follow the 4 steps under Phase 6 “Combat” in the rules. Any shadow cards dealt to the attacking enemy are discarded after the attack resolves."

 

You are allowed to take actions after each of the 4 steps, which are choose an enemy, declare defender, resolve shadow, and determine combat damage.  Meanwhile the response triggers "if a card of the named type is revealed" and the attack triggers "when revealed".

 

So...

- She would ready before the attack and you could use her to block. 

- There is an action window between the combat steps, so you could use her to draw. 

- Wingfoot isn't limited and doesn't exhaust, so it could trigger again.

 

****... a tanked up Elrohir with wingfoot would make a mockery of quests with enemies that make attacks during questing!

[soullos 147]

Interesting question.  The FAQ says "(1.26) Enemy attacks outside of the combat phase: If an enemy attacks outside of the combat phase, it is still dealt a shadow card at the beginning of the attack. Then follow the 4 steps under Phase 6 “Combat” in the rules. Any shadow cards dealt to the attacking enemy are discarded after the attack resolves."

 

You are allowed to take actions after each of the 4 steps, which are choose an enemy, declare defender, resolve shadow, and determine combat damage.  Meanwhile the response triggers "if a card of the named type is revealed" and the attack triggers "when revealed".

 

So...

- She would ready before the attack and you could use her to block. 

- There is an action window between the combat steps, so you could use her to draw. 

- Wingfoot isn't limited and doesn't exhaust, so it could trigger again.

 

So if I got this right, as long as Wingfoot's condition is met to ready a hero in the quest phase, you can continuously ready the hero? It's infinite readying as long as you have the actions to make use of the readied hero? Maybe I'm reading that wrong... I've always thought you can only ready once per revealed card since you don't reveal the card multiple times, you only reveal it once. The next enemy revealed is fair game though.

[GrandSpleen 1,756]

It's not infinite; that list of uses that Teamjimby gave is a suggestion of how you could use Beravor with Wingfoot-- use her to draw OR use her to block the attack.  He doesn't mean to say that one revealed enemy will allow you to do both of those actions (i.e., ready twice).

[soullos 147]

It's not infinite; that list of uses that Teamjimby gave is a suggestion of how you could use Beravor with Wingfoot-- use her to draw OR use her to block the attack.  He doesn't mean to say that one revealed enemy will allow you to do both of those actions (i.e., ready twice).

 

I had a feeling I read that wrong.    :embarrassed:

[DukeWellington 312]

Also, it is not infinite readying because you still have to have an action window in which you have an opportunity to exhaust the character. Normally there is no action window available, so you could not exhaust to draw a card in between two enemies. It only works because the attack creates an action window that isn't normally there.

[Ecthelion III 382]

So you're saying that Beravor readies after the "choose an enemy" step so you can use her to block?

[Bullroarer Took 996]

I believe what is being said is:

 

1.  An enemy with an immediate attack is revealed from the encounter deck.  Beravor is not ready so Winged Foot readies her.

2.  Beravor is now an eligible defender and is then chosen to block.

3.  After the attack resolves the new encounter card is revealed.  If it is an enemy Winged Foot will ready Beravor again.

[Jban 59]

Been reading this card over and over again and it doesn't seem correct to me at point 3.

 

Response: After attached hero commits to a quest, name enemy, location, or treachery. If a card of the named type is revealed during this quest phase, ready attached hero. 

 

The card makes use of an if-statement instead of a when-statement. So the complete response would be done after readying 1 time.

 

I started to look for similar situations and consider how I would handle those. Suppose you have a quest card with the same If-construction.

 

If a treachery card is revealed during the quest phase, raise your threat by 3.

 

Within this wording, I would raise my threat with 3 if a treachery is revealed, but I would definitely not raise 3 for each treachery revealed. Any thoughts on this, or should we get straight to Caleb?

 

Kind Regards,

Jban

Edited April 2, 2016 by Jban

[13nrv 147]

We need an official clarification on this topic.

I'm not sure Caleb saw the potential combo with Anborn leadership.

Seastan found a combo with Anborn but it could apply to any unique ranger character having a response needing exhaust effect during the quest phase.

This can become a design problem.

Edited April 4, 2016 by 13nrv

[dalestephenson 1,482]

Is it just me, or does the combination of Seastan, Caleb, and combo in the same post strike fear of misguided errata in your heart?

[13nrv 147]

Nope

 

The Seastan combo is great (as usual). I'm not sure that designer saw that.

We just need to know if it works.

[Slothgodfather 270]

It works.  just trust me.  Don't ruin a good thing!

[Seastan 1,324]

Been reading this card over and over again and it doesn't seem correct to me at point 3.

 

Response: After attached hero commits to a quest, name enemy, location, or treachery. If a card of the named type is revealed during this quest phase, ready attached hero. 

 

The card makes use of an if-statement instead of a when-statement. So the complete response would be done after readying 1 time.

 

I started to look for similar situations and consider how I would handle those. Suppose you have a quest card with the same If-construction.

 

If a treachery card is revealed during the quest phase, raise your threat by 3.

 

Within this wording, I would raise my threat with 3 if a treachery is revealed, but I would definitely not raise 3 for each treachery revealed. Any thoughts on this, or should we get straight to Caleb?

 

Kind Regards,

Jban

 

 

Yes, I would raise my threat 3 for each treachery revealed. When the designers only want it to apply to the first card revealed, they use the word first.

 

​​

 

 

Here is a card that does not use first. And you must perform the action whenever the condition is satisfied:

 

 

Here are more examples of cards that use the "If a..." language, that you resolve every time, not just the first time, showing that they are constant effects:

 

 

 

 

 

Finally, the Ruins of Belegost rules:

 

If a card with the Loot keyword is revealed from the encounter deck, discard it and reveal another card from the top of the encounter deck.

 

Do you resolve this only for the first Loot, or for every loot? I am pretty confident of the answer here, since the quest would be broken if you could just stumble into 3 loot on the first turn, but you can send Caleb an email to confirm if you wish.

[13nrv 147]

The two objective example from Amon Din convince me !

[Lecitadin 282]

Wingfoot is strong, but it is still conditional.

It becomes insane in solo with encounter deck scrying.

[Slothgodfather 270]

Wingfoot is strong, but it is still conditional.

It becomes insane in solo with encounter deck scrying.

 

Sure it is 1 cost cheaper than Unexpected Courage but Wingfoot has a lot more restricting it and I'd never say it is insane myself.  Either A, you have to also invest in scrying effects to get it right or B, you have to get lucky on your educated guess.   Either way, it is still inferior to Unexpected Courage due to it being unique and that it can only stand a character after they commit to the quest - Unexpected Courage on the other hand can stand the character whenever, so your "free" action doesn't have to be questing.  

 

Powerful, sure, but never OP - not even in the Sword Thain murder deck.

 

PS - if they errata Wingfoot because of that deck I'm going to riot.