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Enquiringnewt

Official; No Wave 1 Armada @ early May

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I'm already out and sold my copy of the game, getting back into X-Wing. A.) it's kind of an overrated to system to me. B.) Its just taking forever for materials and for the Core Set. Then when the core set arrived, I just wasn't all that impressed. The production quality was a true let down, warped TIE Fighters and Bad Paint Jobs, for $100 !!! I feel like I paid $50 more for the Star Wars name.

 

that's just me, a lot of guys like slow, multi-faceted tactical games. Maybe I'll come around again in a couple years. Good luck to all you players! Peace and love!

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This is a real disappointment, i'm already bored with the 2 Core i own because they are so bland, at least if we had gotten the fighters i could have enjoyed multiple core games but as of right now i can't see myself sticking around much longer or motivating myself to give demo's. FFG get your **** together please.

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I too am getting a little bored with my 2 core sets and am very much looking forward to Wave 1 helping to balance the objectives. However, to those that have raised the issue of the Armada core set being bland and not a complete game. How was X-Wing with just a core set?

 

I didn't get into X-Wing upon initial release, but I read a few reviews that basically said the x-wing vs 2 tie fighters (core ships) was a very one-sided and boring battle, but the reviews universally encouraged people that the system was sound and with more ships the game would be amazing.

 

I feel that this is exactly the same situation Armada is in now. The players want Wave 1 out asap. FFG wants Wave 1 out asap. We just have to wait as patiently (or impatiently) as possible.

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This is a real disappointment, i'm already bored with the 2 Core i own because they are so bland, at least if we had gotten the fighters i could have enjoyed multiple core games but as of right now i can't see myself sticking around much longer or motivating myself to give demo's. FFG get your **** together please.

 

You honestly think FFG wants these delays ? Really ?

 

It is not FFG nor any other companies fault what happened on the west coast starting last summer and lasting till this February. Delays are inevitable with that kind of bull ****. 

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Wow, so much negativity! :S I for one am grateful that FFG had taken the time to make such an awesome game, and that they are already releasing so much material within just a few months of the game's release: the core set, plus 3 different fighter packs and 9 (!!!) different ships, including the iconic Imperial Star Destroyers and Mon Cal Cruisers. That's 12 expansions within half a year of the game's release. Personally I think that's incredible- I was expecting FFG to drag things out and make us wait until 2016 at least before we got ISDs and MonCal Cruisers.

I am also incredibly grateful for EnquiringNewt's supply of information, so that I don't have to sit around in the dark waiting and wondering when stuff will arrive. Now That know I've got several weeks still I can explore the core set some more and enjoy X-Wing and other games and (perhaps most importantly) focus on working and earning more money to save up for Wave 2. :)

Thank you Newt! And Thank you FFG!

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Agree with you Irishman, Herowannabe and Toqtamish. Its amazing how impatient people can be. I want it all right now too! BUT, I have waited 30+ years for this game (and X-Wing too), a couple more months just helps build the excitement. People giving up on a game after only a couple of months because of a wait on product shows how fair-weather some one can be.

 

This is an amazing and great time for gaming. Another subject I loved and waited for is The Robotech Tactics Game. They did a kickstarter that went insane (1.4 million) and its almost 2 years later and people are still waiting on wave 2 for that game which was promised in the kickstarter. Naturally many have become incredibly irate. The reasons vary from Production issues to the shipping problems, etc. But it will come.

 

As will wave 1 (and 2) for Armada. The shipping strike was beyond FFG's control and are not to blame for the delay. They want to make money! Having it sit around in a cargo container doesn't help them one bit and they know it. So what would you have them do? Their hands are tied.

 

Thanks for a great product FFG

Edited by phxcmd

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On a POSITIVE note... This gives us enough time to do some really cool repaints.  Some of us can only devote a limited time to this endeavor, so the delay will enable us to be 'more better' in doing so.

It's a really good game (as is X-Wing), and EXPECTATION of 'Waves' is all the more.  Besides, at least there ARE waves - and product support, expansions, etc... to keep this alive (unlike MANY other games we have invested in...)

Cheers!

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Agree with you Irishman, Herowannabe and Toqtamish. Its amazing how impatient people can be. I want it all right now too! BUT, I have waited 30+ years for this game (and X-Wing too), a couple more months just helps build the excitement. People giving up on a game after only a couple of months because of a wait on product shows how fair-weather some one can be.

 

This is an amazing and great time for gaming. Another subject I loved and waited for is The Robotech Tactics Game. They did a kickstarter that went insane (1.4 million) and its almost 2 years later and people are still waiting on wave 2 for that game which was promised in the kickstarter. Naturally many have become incredibly irate. The reasons vary from Production issues to the shipping problems, etc. But it will come.

 

As will wave 1 (and 2) for Armada. The shipping strike was beyond FFG's control and are not to blame for the delay. They want to make money! Having it sit around in a cargo container doesn't help them one bit and they know it. So what would you have them do? Their hands are tied.

 

Thanks for a great product FFG

For the most part I agree with you, the only part that I am not fully is the Robotech Tactics Game, I would say the main reasons that many of those of us (can not speak for all) are upset is that they lied to us from the start, said that it was 95% done and would be out shortly and then rather than tell the truth they keep adding more lies on top of the lies they already said.

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Agree with you Irishman, Herowannabe and Toqtamish. Its amazing how impatient people can be. I want it all right now too! BUT, I have waited 30+ years for this game (and X-Wing too), a couple more months just helps build the excitement. People giving up on a game after only a couple of months because of a wait on product shows how fair-weather some one can be.

 

This is an amazing and great time for gaming. Another subject I loved and waited for is The Robotech Tactics Game. They did a kickstarter that went insane (1.4 million) and its almost 2 years later and people are still waiting on wave 2 for that game which was promised in the kickstarter. Naturally many have become incredibly irate. The reasons vary from Production issues to the shipping problems, etc. But it will come.

 

As will wave 1 (and 2) for Armada. The shipping strike was beyond FFG's control and are not to blame for the delay. They want to make money! Having it sit around in a cargo container doesn't help them one bit and they know it. So what would you have them do? Their hands are tied.

 

Thanks for a great product FFG

For the most part I agree with you, the only part that I am not fully is the Robotech Tactics Game, I would say the main reasons that many of those of us (can not speak for all) are upset is that they lied to us from the start, said that it was 95% done and would be out shortly and then rather than tell the truth they keep adding more lies on top of the lies they already said.

 

Did they make promises they couldn't keep? Sadly yes. 

However what I was getting at was that as a kid in 1985 watching Robotech on the tv, I REALLY wanted a game or something similar. For almost 30 years there has been nothing except a crappy video game or two. Now, it is coming. Slowly? HELL YES. Slower than it should have. But we're getting it. Can't wait for the Super Valks!

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Stupid stupid stupid...... Kind of pissed right now at the whole shipping industry, and that includes the dock Owners and Union leadership. What happened to compromise, when did it become a dirty word and why are people so self-centered that they don't want to be held responsible for their actions when they Screw Up? 

 

Anakin Skywalker: I don’t think the system works.

Padmé: How would you have it work?

Anakin Skywalker: We need a system where the politicians sit down

and discuss the problem… agree what’s in the best interest of all people… and then do it.

Padmé: That’s exactly what we do. The trouble is that people don’t always agree.

Anakin Skywalker: Well, then they should be made to.

Padmé: By whom? Who’s going to make them?

Anakin Skywalker: I don’t know. Someone.

Padmé: You?

Anakin Skywalker: Of course not me.

Padmé: But someone.

Anakin Skywalker: Someone wise.

Padmé: Sounds an awful lot like a dictatorship to me.

Anakin Skywalker: Well, if it works.

 

Now, Beatty, you understand the importance of the Empire and our Emperor!

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As bummed as I am, since I'm antsy for the squadrons more than anything else I think I'll just break down and print out some proxy dials for them. Even staying limited to just the three types of Core ships, I think having a full variety of squadrons will bring plenty of variety to help with the wait for Wave 1.

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How was X-Wing with just a core set?

But you didn't just have the X-Wing core set to play with for a month or more.

I don't blame FFG for it, but it is in fact going to hurt sales of Armada at least until Wave 1 comes out and could have lasting damage on sales of the game, if enough people give up on it and move on to other stuff.

I know FFG isn't happy that they don't have wave 1 in stores now. I also know that no one is really being unreasonable if they say they're tired of core set only games.

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Stupid stupid stupid...... Kind of pissed right now at the whole shipping industry, and that includes the dock Owners and Union leadership. What happened to compromise, when did it become a dirty word and why are people so self-centered that they don't want to be held responsible for their actions when they Screw Up?

 

Anakin Skywalker: I don’t think the system works.

Padmé: How would you have it work?

Anakin Skywalker: We need a system where the politicians sit down

and discuss the problem… agree what’s in the best interest of all people… and then do it.Padmé: That’s exactly what we do. The trouble is that people don’t always agree.Anakin Skywalker: Well, then they should be made to.Padmé: By whom? Who’s going to make them?Anakin Skywalker: I don’t know. Someone.Padmé: You?Anakin Skywalker: Of course not me.Padmé: But someone.Anakin Skywalker: Someone wise.Padmé: Sounds an awful lot like a dictatorship to me.Anakin Skywalker: Well, if it works.

 

Now, Beatty, you understand the importance of the Empire and our Emperor!

LOL...Well played.

I was thinking more of New Leadership and how negotiations should be done. The system we have for Union/Management negotiations are the same they had for decades and it is time to revise the model. New ground rules for how terms are done and timelines set instead of both parties playing the brinksmanship's game where both parties try to force the other's hand through threats.

Do we need hostile negotiations to continue when there are better ways and the business philosophy needs to change so employees are not seen as just a means to an end but as a valuable asset that the company really really need to continue. For a company to work you need both management and employees, both are essential and neither is more important than the other. (I know in our society the owners are seen as something like royalty and we are to see them as above us but in my 25 years of working I have found no owner or manager has been Better than me and most of the time I bother them becuase I tend to be more intelligent than them. But as an Atypical Aspy I make a better active worker instead of a manager.)

Our system is breaking down becuase it is not keeping up with the changes in business and the speed of which our economy works.

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I am kind of reticent to do touney play with so few Rebel options though.  I personally do not feel I can make a decent build with the core set...enough to actually get the prizes I want.

If you are going to play rebel at this point in the game (core only), then winning the underbid is essential. Your missions must be played to have a chance imho.

Edited by An Irishman

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I am kind of reticent to do touney play with so few Rebel options though.  I personally do not feel I can make a decent build with the core set...enough to actually get the prizes I want.

If you are going to play rebel at this point in the game (core only), then winding the underbid is essential. Your missions must be played to have a chance imho.

 

I am not sure of that, I watched a game last night that the rebels won and they picked the Imperial mission that gave them the free gunners upgrade. Yes they lost two of there three ships and in the six turns only killed one of the Empire's two, but by points they won and it was not even close. One corvette, one Frigate (flagship) and one X-wing fighter stand, for One VSD (flagship) and 10/11 Tie Stands. The X-wings are what took it for them.

 

Edit: Forgot to say this was a double box battle (300pts)

Edited by CDAT

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I am kind of reticent to do touney play with so few Rebel options though.  I personally do not feel I can make a decent build with the core set...enough to actually get the prizes I want.

If you are going to play rebel at this point in the game (core only), then winning the underbid is essential. Your missions must be played to have a chance imho.

 

That's been the opposite of my experience.  Both times I've played, the Rebels ate the Imperials for lunch.  In the second game, I was tabled by Turn 5.  We're all still learning and making mistakes, to be sure, but I really doubt that the Core Set is totally unbalanced.

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Do we need hostile negotiations to continue when there are better ways and the business philosophy needs to change so employees are not seen as just a means to an end but as a valuable asset that the company really really need to continue. For a company to work you need both management and employees, both are essential and neither is more important than the other. (I know in our society the owners are seen as something like royalty and we are to see them as above us but in my 25 years of working I have found no owner or manager has been Better than me and most of the time I bother them becuase I tend to be more intelligent than them. But as an Atypical Aspy I make a better active worker instead of a manager.)

Our system is breaking down becuase it is not keeping up with the changes in business and the speed of which our economy works.

 

I think it's also a function of American culture, frankly. In many European countries (I'm thinking Netherlands, Germany, Austria and the Scandinavian countries - not those south of the Garlic border :P ), labor relations simply seem to work out better. It's not that they don't argue, but they don't seem to be treated in a zero-sum manner.

 

I'm not sure if its endemic to American labor relations, or if the divisions in the broader American society are imposed on labor relations. But at any rate, it does seem to me that these things get treated in a zero-sum manner (every gain I make is a loss to you and vice versa). This also shows up in our politics.

 

Of course, from the Imperial perspective, that's a good thing. The galactic economy will flourish once the rebellion and recalcitrant dockworkers are crushed. Every one will be better off with wealth trickled down from the Emperor.

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As most of us were expecting wave 1 the first week in May this is really only a two or three week delay. I'm sure the game will survive just fine. That being said I too have gotten tired of using the same three ships for the 30+ games I've played. I can't wait to add wave 1 as it's really going to change things up a great deal. 

 

Moff, I think you touched on the thing that is maybe the source of the (totally understandable) frustrations on the forums... Now that we have cores, limited build fatigue is a real thing. Even with proxies, in all likelihood, most games you play will consist of two Victories smashing into a pair of Nebulon-Bs and CR-90s. Unless of course, there are more than two core sets available between you and your opponent which does not feel to be all that common. (If you are someone in a situation to be playing with three core sets, I'm very curious about how those additional build options feel!!! Such as the 3 VSD or the new wild variations possibile for Rebels with 3 of each ship available.)

 

The vast majority of us seem to be in agreement that FFG did not want this. That much was clear just through their hope for a simultaneous release. But as it stands, the crowd that is most involved in discussions on this board have waited since last August and were immensely excited for that core set. I am among those that have gotten as many games under my belt as possible - and now, looking at 3 or more weeks before the increase of complexity and variation that we all clearly crave - I don't think I could blame a soul who looks at the same six ships on their table and sighs.

 

So in all likelihood and reason, it was totally out of their control that there could be a 6-8 week delay for wave one. On the same hand, after such a long wait, there was no way in hell that anyone could tell the Armada forum goers to take it easy on how many core-only games they should play. ;) I am personally excited to proxy some fighters in to play around with, as I would love to see how A-wings perform as your squadron backbone with no need for escorts and forego bomber keywords. Some people are also saying they are considering putting Armada on the shelf for a while - I think that's a great idea too. Let your batteries recharge, hang out and speculate and theorize on the forum as if the core never released.

 

Promoting patience is cool and all, but I think that the venting absolutely has a place in this thread. It is really hard to deny the validity of any bubbled over frustration at this point. I feel some of the same disappointment and I find it helpful to see other people putting it into words. For now I am happily daydreaming ahead to this fall when nine total ships will hopefully be availble, when the great Armada delays will be but a bad memory and we will all be glad we made it through.

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It occurs to me (largely because another thread reminded me about math) that some of us are distraught because they've been approaching the problem all wrong.

 

In specific, some people have been failing to apply the concept of recipriversexclusion. Those who have a good grasp of their bistromathics can tell you that recipriversexclusion is described as a number whose existence can only be defined as anything other than itself. In other words, the given time of arrival (in this case the arrival of wave 1) is subject to recipriversexclusion, meaning that the given time simply can not be the time at which wave 1 will arrive.

 

So if you state a time in which you believe wave 1 will arrive, it is simply impossible for wave 1 to arrive at that time.

 

However, this does lead us to a useful discovery. Having stated a time for wave 1 to arrive, and having determined through recipriversexclusion that wave 1 can not arrive at that time, we are able to observe that wave 1 must therefore arrive at a different time, however improbable that time may be. Once we've determined exactly how improbable it is for wave 1 to arrive at any other given point in time, we can input that number into a finite improbability generator, and thus recreate the effects of an infinite improbability generator, making it possible for us to arrive at the exact same time and place at which wave 1 will arrive.

 

That determination of improbability seems tricky at first, but is really quite simple. One must simply acknowledge that the closer a number gets to the stated time of wave 1's arrival, the closer to impossible it gets, and therefore the more improbable it gets. Thus the most improbable moment of wave 1's arrival is exactly one second before or after the stated moment of wave 1's arrival.

 

If we input that number, we'll be successful (and lynched).

 

Yes I realize we could compute in nanoseconds, but it's probably best to arrive 99% of a second ahead or behind wave 1's arrival, both for us and the unfortunately startled delivery guy. Attempts at occupying the exact time and space of another object have met with disaster unless one is sufficiently drunk.

 

But before we can achieve this nigh-miraculous feat of science and math, we'll have to make a cup of tea.

Edited by Deathseed

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I am viewing this as all games played are at the early stages of the rebellion and/or in the outer rim.  The Rebels did not have much in terms of resources, and the Empire was not going to send top notch ships to the rim. 

 

Plus, it gives me more time to polish up the new dices from the dice packs!

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It occurs to me (largely because another thread reminded me about math) that some of us are distraught because they've been approaching the problem all wrong.

 

In specific, some people have been failing to apply the concept of recipriversexclusion. Those who have a good grasp of their bistromathics can tell you that recipriversexclusion is described as a number whose existence can only be defined as anything other than itself. In other words, the given time of arrival (in this case the arrival of wave 1) is subject to recipriversexclusion, meaning that the given time simply can not be the time at which wave 1 will arrive.

 

So if you state a time in which you believe wave 1 will arrive, it is simply impossible for wave 1 to arrive at that time.

 

However, this does lead us to a useful discovery. Having stated a time for wave 1 to arrive, and having determined through recipriversexclusion that wave 1 can not arrive at that time, we are able to observe that wave 1 must therefore arrive at a different time, however improbable that time may be. Once we've determined exactly how improbable it is for wave 1 to arrive at any other given point in time, we can input that number into a finite improbability generator, and thus recreate the effects of an infinite improbability generator, making it possible for us to arrive at the exact same time and place at which wave 1 will arrive.

 

That determination of improbability seems tricky at first, but is really quite simple. One must simply acknowledge that the closer a number gets to the stated time of wave 1's arrival, the closer to impossible it gets, and therefore the more improbable it gets. Thus the most improbable moment of wave 1's arrival is exactly one second after the stated moment of wave 1's arrival.

 

If we input that number, we'll be successful (and lynched).

 

But before we can achieve this nigh-miraculous feat of science and math, we'll have to make a cup of tea.

To quote Billy Madison:

"...what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

Back to sane things... I completely agree that this will ultimately hurt the game. I know because I've seen that it already has. One person I've played with has already lost steam and decided against playing/purchasing this game because he got bored and thought FFG was rolling out an incomplete product. I'll stick around for sure, but it's kinda hard to blame him.

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To quote Billy Madison:

"...what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

I think you missed the HHGTTG reference.

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I'm sorry, but blaming FFG for this situation is just nonsense.  When X-Wing launched, they had the Wave 1 ships launch with it.  Talking to the FFG people. this is exactly what they wanted to do with Armada, but due to the shipping situation, and knowing that there was already a delay, they decided to go ahead and release the Core set so at least we had SOMETHING...which is better than NOTHING.  If you don't want to play the game because it is "bland" right now, then that is all on you.  There are plenty of other games to play between now and when Wave 1 finally ships.  FFG is in the same boat we are (no pun intended...or is it?).  The product is sitting in a container on a dock waiting its turn in the queue.

Edited by Otakuon

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To quote Billy Madison:

"...what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

I think you missed the HHGTTG reference.

 

 

Some people are tragically deprived (and depraved) of their Douglas Adams.

 

I like to consider myself an accomplished student of Adamsian Polyreasoning (in which one learns to look at things from several points of view until one finds the one with which Douglas Adams would agree).

Edited by Deathseed

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