Question about "Opening Salvo" objective

[headache62 130]

What other situations are you even talking about then Headache?

You've been asserting, for pages, that the dice colors are inherently restricted by range. Is that no longer your position, or just in regards to Openning Salvo? And if it is the later then what other situations are you coming up with?

The other situation would be a ship in arc at medium range but out of arc at close range. If anything I've said indicates that I think range overrides a card, then please know that is not what I intended. Of course if a card says black dice can be used beyond short range, they can. But in the absence of cards specifies that dice can be use outside of their specified range, I still maintain that dice are range limited (and range is arc limited). If it's FAQ'd otherwise, then I'll play it that way, but for now that's my position.

[headache62 130]

What is the appropriate color for dice at long range?

There is nothing in the rules that state that Black = Short, Blue = Medium and Red = Long.

*looks at range ruler*

Sorry, I'm going to disagree with that statement.

[ScottieATF 2,867]

What other situations are you even talking about then Headache?

You've been asserting, for pages, that the dice colors are inherently restricted by range. Is that no longer your position, or just in regards to Openning Salvo? And if it is the later then what other situations are you coming up with?

The other situation would be a ship in arc at medium range but out of arc at close range. If anything I've said indicates that I think range overrides a card, then please know that is not what I intended. Of course if a card says black dice can be used beyond short range, they can. But in the absence of cards specifies that dice can be use outside of their specified range, I still maintain that dice are range limited (and range is arc limited). If it's FAQ'd otherwise, then I'll play it that way, but for now that's my position.

Your first post in this very thread has you stating that while you may be able to add black dice at long range, you wouldn't be able to roll them, so you'd just be better off adding a red dice. So if somehow that post was intended to convey that you belive you can utilize a dice color outside of the range it is indicated on the ruler for gathering your initial dice pool, you really need to take extra time getting your ideas down before posting. Because I don't think you have a clue what you are trying to actually say.

So what is it? Can you, with Openning Salvo, add a black dice to a long range shot (rolling it and adding it's result to your attack). Or are you still saying you can add it, but not roll it, which essentially makes adding it pointless?

Edited April 29, 2015 by ScottieATF

[Perakkir 108]

Ok, you dudes are talking to a wall, so I figure I'll do it for a couple posts to give you some much deserved rest...

We add black dice with OS because: "any" and sequence and key words.

Be that as it may, whatever other arguments may be out there, one that is not is the idea that a measuring stick is a rule. By this pseudo-logic, all my ships would have 6 shields in all arcs because a six is printed on the dial...All ships would fire one black, one blue and one red die only at close range because that is what is printed on the stick. Also, all Ties would be Howlrunner...

[VanorDM 11,599]

Sorry, I'm going to disagree with that statement.

You're wrong... The ruler only specifies what dice are allowed in the Attack Pool, it doesn't count for any other step in the attack process. Which I said in the post you quoted...

But in the absence of cards specifies that dice can be use outside of their specified range, I still maintain that dice are range limited (and range is arc limited)

But there's nothing in the rules that say the dice are limited to a given range. Only that they're limited by what range they can be used in the Attack Pool.

You can not just apply rules to one step to all other steps unless it's actually stated somewhere to do so. No where in the Modify Dice step does it say to check range. So what the range ruler says is completely irrelevant.

[ScottieATF 2,867]

Yeah Perakkir, I'd prefer you not argue for me if you are going to do so in that manner. You aren't helping with such "examples"

Edited April 29, 2015 by ScottieATF

[Perakkir 108]

Hey, no worries. My post had nothing to do with you, scottie. Sorry for any confusion on your part on that point.

My examples, however, stand. They serve to make it clear the lack of utility in raising a play aid to the level of rule.

[headache62 130]

We need an FAQ entry. Nothing more needs to be said at this point.

[Ghost Dancer 401]

Not read the entire thread, but I agree with those that say you can add any colour dice regardless of the range - that's what the card says, and if the range were limited it would say so (as it does on other cards where the range of the extra dice is restricted). Seems like a no-brainer to me! 

 

Also, remember that  objectives favour the second player - being able to add dice of any colour is that advantage!

[Wildhorn 453]

It is clear that you can add any dice color at any range.

 

Squadrons: Not limited by range.

Dominator Title: Specify a range. Why specify if range limits color of dice?

Paragon Title: Doesn't specify a range.

Enhanced Armament, Expanded Launcher: They add dice to battery armament. Why not just say add dice if range limits color of dice?

Concentrate Fire command: Specify that the added dice must be of a color already in the dice pool.

 

And it is Concentrate Fire command, Enhanced Armament and Expanded Launcher that really clear everything up. If "Opening Salvo" 2nd player effect was limited by range they would have wrote: "Add 2 dice of any color to your battery armament" or "Add 2 dice of any color that is already in the dice pool".

So, case closed, dice color not limited by range past the "Roll Attack Dice" step, move along.

[Kulikov 6]

If any color dice can be used in this context, would there be any reason to not use black dice?

 

    > If there is no reason to use dice other than the black dice, why would the objective card allow a choice of any color?

[wonderpug 219]

If any color dice can be used in this context, would there be any reason to not use black dice?

 

    > If there is no reason to use dice other than the black dice, why would the objective card allow a choice of any color?

You might have an upgrade specific to blue or red dice you want to use, or you may want dice that give you a chance of accuracy rolls.

[Wildhorn 453]

 

If any color dice can be used in this context, would there be any reason to not use black dice?

 

    > If there is no reason to use dice other than the black dice, why would the objective card allow a choice of any color?

You might have an upgrade specific to blue or red dice you want to use, or you may want dice that give you a chance of accuracy rolls.

 

Exactly, blue dice have no blank shot.

[Kulikov 6]

I understand better. Such as the case, rules as written add whichever dice suit your tactical needs. If FFG considers it an issue, I believe they will patch or FAQ it. 

[Hygric 420]

And the FAQ has spoken!

 

The dice can indeed be of any colour, regardless of range.

[BigBadGarou 3]

Yep. I was wrong. It has been clarified.

 

Q: When a ship resolves an ability that allows it to add dice to the attack pool, can it add those dice if their color is not normally appropriate for the range of the attack?

A: Yes. The range restriction on dice color applies only when dice are gathered during the “Roll Attack Dice” step of an attack.

 

Q: If a ship’s attack would not include any dice, but the ship can add dice through a card effect, can it perform the attack?

A: No. If a ship does not gather any dice during the “Roll Attack Dice” step of an attack, the attack is canceled.

[headache62 130]

Cool - now we know.

[DunaMoose 92]

On 5/11/2015 at 6:40 AM, BigBadGarou said:

Yep. I was wrong. It has been clarified.

 

Q: When a ship resolves an ability that allows it to add dice to the attack pool, can it add those dice if their color is not normally appropriate for the range of the attack?

A: Yes. The range restriction on dice color applies only when dice are gathered during the “Roll Attack Dice” step of an attack.

 

Q: If a ship’s attack would not include any dice, but the ship can add dice through a card effect, can it perform the attack?

A: No. If a ship does not gather any dice during the “Roll Attack Dice” step of an attack, the attack is canceled.

So GR-75s can't profit?

Master Necromancer out.

Edited March 25, 2019 by DunaMoose

[The Jabbawookie 5,612]

45 minutes ago, DunaMoose said:

So GR-75s can't profit?

Master Necromancer out.

Not unless they already have a battery armament.  So only front and rear arc shots from the Combat Refit.