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Jehan Menasis

I foresee a potential problem with Extra Munitions

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Which is a logistics problem.

 

Up to date, every X-Wing expansion has been self-sustainable, which means that every box cames with all necessary cards, dials, templates and tokens to be playable by itself.

 

However, with extra munitions, though the respective boxes (TIE Punisher / K-Wing) include ordnance tokens, they seem not to include duplicate mine tokens.

 

With seismic, proton (and likely ion) bombs there's no problem since they self-detonate and remove themselves immediately from the board... But with Proximity Mines, Cluster Bombs and Conner Nets there may be a problem because they are (likely to be) persistent... If we duplicate the load with Extra Munitions, we can easily find ourselves out of tokens to put on board and use them both at the same time.

 

For example, let's say one turn I drop Cluster Mines using an ordnance token. Assuming they behave like persistent proximity mines... And even assuming that my opponent collides and detonates one or two of them in the same round... If the next turn I want to drop them again, there's literally not enough tokens available for me to reproduce them, unless the respective mine tokens all disappear from the board.

 

So, either you can't launch 'persistent' mines till you recover all your mine tokens... Or an extra copy of them should be put in the box, which by the way, should also include an additional 'Proximity mine' token, to enable duplicity for the already launched expansions.

 

Of course all this operates under the assumption that those mines behave as 'persistent' tokens. But from the lore and the looks of them, it seems likely.

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Considering how many Ion tokens came with the Decimator to support the Ion Torpedoes, I'm betting they've got some cardboard set aside for this.

Err... We've seen the content of the expansions. They only have 1 copy of the mine token (Or tokens, in the case of cluster mines). I'm not sure how FFG would make additional sets available.

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Mutiple ya but realy you need 2 per ship to use the cards. You would have to buy 2x as many as you can use to be able to be sure you can play them all when needed in tournament as made. I buy at least 2 of every ship myself but this will end up being an issue untill at least another wave prints more of the cluster tokens for most players who dont buy like 4 or more.

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Since Armada and IA have decimated my wallet, I'll probably only be getting 1 of each ship from wave 7.... so yeah I'm concerned as well.   I'd bet we will see some acrylic versions of these new bombs/mines as prize support... but that only gets to a small percentage of the playerbase.   

 

 I guess for now the rule will have to be "If you don't have a second cluster mine, you cannot drop a second one until the first is used up".  

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Lately my OCD has been driving me towards the edge we havent had crit tokens since wave 5 and most wanted only came with 1 set of target lock tokens for 3 ships. I like to have a bag of all the tokens I need to for evey ship (and its possible upgrades)  stored with it. When I get my next most wanted pack im going to go mad with not enough target locks to go around :wacko:

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There's still discrepancies between images (such as the Hounds Tooth) having different stats, so it's probably safe to presume that much of the artwork and cardboard layout is still under development. Therefore subject to change. I'm sure a big part of why FFG releases images and information would be to mine these very forums to find potential "problems" before the final art and kit inclusions are done.

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a fair point.  not an issue for those that buy multiples as many of our signatures would indicate.  

 

The matter of fact is that it's an issue no matter how many multiples you buy. You'll always have less tokens available that the number of 'extra munitioned' cards you can field.

 

For example, let's say that you buy 2 Punishers. Even if you field only one of them, you may decide to equip both 'Cluster mines' cards with 'extra munitions' in order to do a 'carpet bombing' and create a huge area denial. You can launch the first volley, the second volley... And then, the 3rd and 4th volley are stuck in the chutes because you literally don't have physical tokens remaining to deploy them.

 

When you use extra munitions with mines, you'll never have enough physical tokens to create the effects, unless all the tokens leave the board in the same turn they are deployed. The problem lies in that the card allows a duplicity that is not backed up by the expansion's material. It is like selling a proximity mine without its board token. You have the card, yes, but can't effectively use it.

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In case anyone hasn't noticed before, in a tournament setting you have to have an official copy of all cards that you are using, including tokens.  So you will have to purchase enough of the ships containing said tokens to legally play the game.  This is nothing new to the game.  To use a card, you have to own/borrow that card, and the same will be true about these bomb tokens.  No problem, just a company producing fun toys for us to play with, but also trying to make enough money to be profitable.  

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In case anyone hasn't noticed before, in a tournament setting you have to have an official copy of all cards that you are using, including tokens.  So you will have to purchase enough of the ships containing said tokens to legally play the game. 

 

And that's precisely part of the problem. When I purchase, for example a TIE punisher expansion, I am legally entitled to TWO uses of a "Cluster mine" one by the card, and one by the ordnance token on top of it. However, I have (as it seems ATM) only a single set of "Cluster mine tokens".

 

There seems to be no way of using the ordnance token 'as intended' for mines, unless you remove first all corresponding mine tokens from the board.

 

Thus, legally speaking, I'm missing a component "I paid for". I have the card that enables the effect, but not the necessary tokens to make use of it 'as intended'.

Edited by Jehan Menasis

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Duplicating my response in the other thread on this topic:

 

 

The problem, of course, is that there's limited space on the cardboard. And if they didn't have room for more than one new, enormous token, then they only had two feasible choices: introduce cool new bombs with one token, or don't introduce any cool new bombs at all.

 

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Fine, I can perfectly understand the motives behind, but the problem is still there, so what will be the solution?

 

- No double-drops unless we have the corresponding tokens? Are we then "forced" to buy extra expansions to secure a moderate supply of tokens? Doesn't that tactically benefit the wealthier players over those that cannot, or are not willing to spend money in more than one model?

 

Edit: Note that we are not talking over having an upgrade card vs not having it. When you purchase a given expansion, you may find exclusive upgrades on it, which is fine, since it's part of the content you paid for. But in this case, you already paid for the ability to make 2 uses of the mine, but you are unable to do so because of lack of tokens.

 

- Removing all existing tokens from board whenever we make a new use of the 'extra' bomb?... Then, will simultaneous use of extra tokens be forbidden for all players, even those who have purchased extra models and thus have extra tokens to spare? Certainly it doesn't operate that way with proximity mines at the moment.

Edited by Jehan Menasis

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Fine, I can perfectly understand the motives behind, but the problem is still there, so what will be the solution?

 

- No double-drops unless we have the corresponding tokens? Are we then "forced" to buy extra expansions to secure a moderate supply of tokens? Doesn't that tactically benefit the wealthier players over those that cannot, or are not willing to spend money in more than one model?

 

- Removing all existing tokens from board whenever we make a new use of the 'extra' bomb?... Then, will simultaneous use of extra tokens be forbidden for all players, even those who have purchased extra models and thus have extra tokens to spare? Certainly it doesn't operate that way with proximity mines at the moment.

 

How does proximity mines currently work?  Don't they last until detonated?

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