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ShadoWarrior

Droids and stun

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Samphlange i would guess, from the description of its effects on organics and the effects shown on the ATST that it's a weapon that combines the propeties of both. 

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I still want to know what an ion disruptor is. Whether it is an ion weapon, a disruptor or has the properties of both.

My guess is that the Rebels writers needed a second word to make the weapon sound even more dangerous and just chose Ion. Ion Disruptor sounds more wicked than just Disruptor. In any case I'm sure if it gets stated it'll be similar to a Disruptor with some fluff about it being extremely painful or something.

Edited by FuriousGreg

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I simply read the Disruptor from Rebels being the first real on-screen representation of a Disruptor. Yes, it took out an AT-DP in a single shot... or more specifically disrupted its controls enough to remove it from battle. I think that the Disruptor Rifle is a fair enough representation of a weapon that can really do some damage. I wouldn't change the stats in the game to match the "on screen performance" of the weapon, as really it existed as a plot device...

 

As for Droids and Stun, while Ion Blasters are singled out as being specific for droids, I have always treated droids the same as meatbags when it comes to the stun settings on weapons... 

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EotE and AoR each have a slightly different take on droid stun damage.  Here's what EotE has for the ionization blaster:

 

Ionization Blaster:  Ranged (Light), Dam 10, Crit 5, Range Short, Encum 3, HP 3, Price 250, Rarity 3, Disorient 5, Stun Damage (Droid Only)

 

And here's what's in AoR for the ion blaster:

 

Ion Blaster:  Ranged (Light), Dam 10, Crit 5, Range Short, Encum 3, HP 3, Price 250, Rarity 3, Disorient 5, Ion

 

Even though they look almost identical, the fluff is a bit different.  The ionization blaster seems to be like a tazer that fires a "restraining bolt" at the droid, which causes stun damage only to droids and cyborgs.

 

The description for the ion blaster in AoR specifically mentions vehicles, machinery, and droids, but otherwise has the same basic effect.  So, the "Ion" quality appears to effect vehicles, machinery, droids, and cyborgs, while the "Stun Damage (Droid Only)" quality only works for droids and cyborgs.

 

Both mention cyborgs, as well as droids, so if a character has any cybornetic enhancements, both "Ion" weapons and "Stun Damage (Droid Only)" weapons will dealt stun damage.

 

As for the stun effects for weapons with the "Stun Damage" or "Stun Setting" qualities, I don't see anywhere where it specifically mentions that droids (or cyborgs) are immune to the effects, so again, I'm assuming that droids and cyborgs are also effected by them.  If you look at the damage output, "Ion" and "Stun Damage (Droid Only)" weapons deal much more damage than, say, a regular blaster pistol set to stun, because their targets are very limited and do not work on non-droid and non-cyborg sentients.

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Er, your link doesn't say anything about droids, just inanimate objects.  Also, given that Wookieepedia often uses RPG books as sources, it's not exactly a surprise that the effects from rules from previous RPGs would be listed on Wookieepedia.

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Also, given that Wookieepedia often uses RPG books as sources, it's not exactly a surprise that the effects from rules from previous RPGs would be listed on Wookieepedia.

I think that the point is that prior to Disney relegating all previous canon to so-called Legends, those older RPGs had been explicitly approved by LucasArts and were considered canon. So, per Legends, droids were immune to stun. Disney altering what's the official canon doesn't just affect the SW timeline and what characters exist in the universe. It also affects what people have been accustomed to for over 30 years (the post-RotJ period). Unfortunately, when Disney threw out the old canon, they didn't just discard everything post-RotJ. They ripped out everything that wasn't in the movies or in TCW. Which discarded all the work that WEG did (work that had the blessing of Lucas), including establishing that droids are immune to stun. D20 carried over much of what WEG established. FFG is based on the new (and highly limited) canon.

Edited by ShadoWarrior

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EotE and AoR each have a slightly different take on droid stun damage.  Here's what EotE has for the ionization blaster:
 
Ionization Blaster:  Ranged (Light), Dam 10, Crit 5, Range Short, Encum 3, HP 3, Price 250, Rarity 3, Disorient 5, Stun Damage (Droid Only)
 
And here's what's in AoR for the ion blaster:
 
Ion Blaster:  Ranged (Light), Dam 10, Crit 5, Range Short, Encum 3, HP 3, Price 250, Rarity 3, Disorient 5, Ion

 

 

I apparently was using the AoR update already in my house rules. I dropped the Stun Damage (droid only) and was just using Ion that could affect any electrical machinery.

 

Stun Damage versus droids varies for me. The stun setting on a blaster doesn't affect droids. That's what Ion is for. The stun damage caused by a device that shoots sticky strands all over its target, yep that works against droids too due to its nature.

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FFG is based on the new (and highly limited) canon.

That's not entirely accurate, though. The Legends shift didn't happen until well after Edge of the Empire was released. It's a nebulous topic, open to a lot of interpretations, and given that they never called out any exceptions, they interpreted stun damage as affecting droids.

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As I see it, droids are affected by the Stun "quality" not the Stun "setting". By which I mean, when you flip a blaster to stun and hose a droid, nothing happens. But when you swing out from behind a corner, level your ion blaster, and lay on the heat, the droid is affected by the Stun "quality". Does that make sense?

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I also don't think droids are inherently immune to stun. Not that it's ever come up in a game because nobody particularly cares about "killing" droids unless they're somehow useful, and enemy droids rarely are.

 

You haven't had the player of a PC droid ask about it yet. Or have a player ask what happens if they fire stun bolts into a melee comprised of other PCs and enemy droids. Per RAW, at worst the PCs would take some strain while the NPC droids would take wounds, since they aren't nemeses. Or run into a bunch of droids and 'kill' them all with a stun grenade.

 

Taking wounds doesn't mean Killed or Dead. It means out of the fight. Rolling 140+ on a crit is Dead. So, tossing a stun grenade into a group of minions who lack strain, isn't going to kill them.

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I see no reason as to why droids should be immune to the stun setting of a blaster, yes there are ion weapons that only effect droids but there are weapons that only effect organics and do the exact same thing (new gas grenades in fly casual), granted it can be resisted with stuff like breath masks however they generally hit higher and can knock out pc with single grenade and there quite cheap. If you don't think that balances it then I'd say make an item that has a similar idea resists it ion for x time or something similar to what a breath mask does. I think that both sides have there specific weapons that work against them and this balances things out, so weapons with stun and stun setting should apply across both types.

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I also think if you make them immune you incourage more liberal use of ion weapons in general, which will result in droid pcs been one or two hit in situations when you want to not kill but capture players, while organics be soaking more strain unless you throw specific weapons at them, which if you do to balance that then people will be going down fast with no real way to fight back.

Edited by OxygenWalrus

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Has everyone gone back and read the Weapon Quality description for Stun Damage?

 

in the text, talking about the Stun Setting, The part where it says "In this case it does stun damage as described above. When weapons with a Stun setting are used to deal stun damage, their range changes to short and CANNOT be increased"

 

WOW, missed that one on every read through in the past 2 years!

 

I would have though this was such a hinderance that these weapons (blaster pistols/small rifles and the force pike) should be effective against anyone from a balancing standpoint.

 

Isn't FFG's take looking at it in a way whereby turning down the power level of the weapon causes Electrical Disruption in the system through overloading with energy. why could an electrical machine not be affected by an overload of energy?

 

i guess the "Im stuck in my ways because how its always been done makes sense to me and i cant see any other way" is a valid argument though. At the end of the day GM/Player buy-in is all thats needed, if your table is happy. 

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The "Stun Damage" quality has the up side of working on all characters, but has the down side of generally doing a smaller amount of stun damage.  "Ion" and "Stun Damage (Droid Only)" weapons have the down side of only working on droid and cyborg characters, but on the up side will generally do more damage to make up for it.  Both are also usually limited to short range.

 

The actual "Stun" quality has the up side of bypassing soak and working on all characters, but the down side of requiring advantage to activate, and generally doing a very small amount of damage.  As far as I know, there's no active "Stun (Droid Only)" quality.

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The "Stun Damage" quality has the up side of working on all characters, but has the down side of generally doing a smaller amount of stun damage.  "Ion" and "Stun Damage (Droid Only)" weapons have the down side of only working on droid and cyborg characters, but on the up side will generally do more damage to make up for it.  Both are also usually limited to short range.

 

The actual "Stun" quality has the up side of bypassing soak and working on all characters, but the down side of requiring advantage to activate, and generally doing a very small amount of damage.  As far as I know, there's no active "Stun (Droid Only)" quality.

 

Its a little annoying that the only difference between those 2 ion guns is the qualitys "Ion" and "Stun Damage (Droid Only)". everything else is identical crunch wise, of course the descriptions are different, but i feel like they could have put out an errata changing the EotE Ionisation Blaster to having the "Ion" quality, something i would likely House Rule if it came up. 

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The "Stun Damage" quality has the up side of working on all characters, but has the down side of generally doing a smaller amount of stun damage.  "Ion" and "Stun Damage (Droid Only)" weapons have the down side of only working on droid and cyborg characters, but on the up side will generally do more damage to make up for it.  Both are also usually limited to short range.

 

The actual "Stun" quality has the up side of bypassing soak and working on all characters, but the down side of requiring advantage to activate, and generally doing a very small amount of damage.  As far as I know, there's no active "Stun (Droid Only)" quality.

 

Its a little annoying that the only difference between those 2 ion guns is the qualitys "Ion" and "Stun Damage (Droid Only)". everything else is identical crunch wise, of course the descriptions are different, but i feel like they could have put out an errata changing the EotE Ionisation Blaster to having the "Ion" quality, something i would likely House Rule if it came up. 

 

At first, I thought that's what had happened, that they just replaced the "Stun Damage (Droid Only)" quality with "Ion" to simplify things.  But the fluff descriptions are totally different.  The EotE ionization blaster is basically a droid tazer that fires a modified restraining bolt which broadcasts a "halt" command to a droid (of course, that doesn't necessarily explain why it works on cyborgs).  The AoR ion blaster is more of what you would normally think of as firing machine-crippling ion pulses, something like a focused EMP emitter.  So the droid-only stun quality is still it's own separate thing with its own separate effect, while the "Ion" quality is something different.

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The "Stun Damage" quality has the up side of working on all characters, but has the down side of generally doing a smaller amount of stun damage.  "Ion" and "Stun Damage (Droid Only)" weapons have the down side of only working on droid and cyborg characters, but on the up side will generally do more damage to make up for it.  Both are also usually limited to short range.

 

The actual "Stun" quality has the up side of bypassing soak and working on all characters, but the down side of requiring advantage to activate, and generally doing a very small amount of damage.  As far as I know, there's no active "Stun (Droid Only)" quality.

 

Its a little annoying that the only difference between those 2 ion guns is the qualitys "Ion" and "Stun Damage (Droid Only)". everything else is identical crunch wise, of course the descriptions are different, but i feel like they could have put out an errata changing the EotE Ionisation Blaster to having the "Ion" quality, something i would likely House Rule if it came up. 

 

At first, I thought that's what had happened, that they just replaced the "Stun Damage (Droid Only)" quality with "Ion" to simplify things.  But the fluff descriptions are totally different.  The EotE ionization blaster is basically a droid tazer that fires a modified restraining bolt which broadcasts a "halt" command to a droid (of course, that doesn't necessarily explain why it works on cyborgs).  The AoR ion blaster is more of what you would normally think of as firing machine-crippling ion pulses, something like a focused EMP emitter.  So the droid-only stun quality is still it's own separate thing with its own separate effect, while the "Ion" quality is something different.

 

yep, i did realise, but it's just silly isn't it? why would you get the tazzer on from EotE when you could get the same thing for the same cost, but it affects any machine from AoR. its like they looked at the item between books and said "you know what, why didn't we just use the Ion quality we already had, its so much simpler" then re-wrote the description to be more realistic for the Star Wars Universe

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The issue came up in my game on the weekend just past, and I answered it quickly during the session "it costs a free action to switch a weapons from stun to kill, and visa-versa" - so problem solved. However, the problem lies when you have a weapon that only does stun damage.

 

Historically, stun doesn't affect droids, but RAW for the FFG version indicates that it might - but doesn't specifically call it out.

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Historically, stun doesn't affect droids, but RAW for the FFG version indicates that it might - but doesn't specifically call it out.

 

It's best to assume that unless otherwise stated a property, ability, or effect works the same for all PCs and NPCs. FFG lists quite a few things in the Droid description that do not affect them including Force Powers, toxins, etc. if Stun was one of those things it would have been listed.

Regardless of the EU or "logical" arguments (as if you can apply this kind of logic to a fantasy creature...) the RAW is pretty clear that Stun affects Droids because it doesn't say otherwise. If you prefer it doesn't it's a House Rule.

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When I say historically, I mean D6, and all D20 versions of the game had stun NOT affect droids. I agree though, that in the absence of any firm calling out of that fact in the rules, one must assume that stun does. It does remove the necessity of DEMP weapons though.

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