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Attacking Squadrons with Ships?

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In the rule book on page 15 under Attacking Squadrons with Ships, it states that a ship can attack all squadrons in its firing arc. In the Rules Reference it says in step 6 of attacking that you target another squadron. 

 

Does this mean that with one of a ships two attacks I can attack all squadrons? I feel it reads that way but I would rather get confirmation.

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Yes, when a ship attacks a squadron it gets to attack each squadron in that arc and within range with its anti-squadron armaments (so mostly a medium blue die for the core ships).

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I have a different question but it fits here to the toppic. When i use the "concentrate fire" command and chose all squadrons in my firearc, can i use the command on every squadron? in the german rules in step 6 is written in parenthesis that it is all the same attack. I compard with the english rules where this is not the case :-/

Wanted they just point out once more, that it doesnt use more than one shot to shoot at all squadrons or does it mean that i can use the bonus die from the command dial for every squadron (since the command states "for one atack)?

THX in advance

 

greetings H

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Tetrarch: If you look the the step-by-step of an attack (in the Rules Reference), you repeat step two to six, thereby making different attacks on each squadron. This means that you can use concentrate fire against ONE fighter squadron, not matter how many you attack in that arc.

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In place of one of your attacks against a ship you make an attack against each squadron in range, arc and LOS. One of these attacks can benefit from Concentrate Fire.

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Oooh. I was about to ask the same question. The idea that a ship could open fire on every squadron in it's firing arc for one of it's attacks felt way to overpowered as I was reading it and I wasn't sure. 

 

On the other hand, that suddenly makes the squadron game a lot more dangerous. The squad to squad combat seems to be aimed at killing a squad every attack or every 2 attacks. So they burn up really fast. But this means that you have to really worry about the capital ships as well. Interesting.

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If a ship uses Concentrate fire does this apply to anti squadron attack values? If my Neb B is attacking 3 squads in it's front arc can I now roll 3 blue dice or do I only roll 2?

You would be able to use your Concentrate Fire command against one of the three squadrons.

Also, from the way you worded things it sounds like you're using Concentrate Fire before your initial roll. Your opportunity to use Concentrate Fire is after the initial roll of the dice. It sounds like a minor difference, but it does change the decisionmaking process.

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If a ship uses Concentrate fire does this apply to anti squadron attack values? If my Neb B is attacking 3 squads in it's front arc can I now roll 3 blue dice or do I only roll 2?

You would be able to use your Concentrate Fire command against one of the three squadrons.

Also, from the way you worded things it sounds like you're using Concentrate Fire before your initial roll. Your opportunity to use Concentrate Fire is after the initial roll of the dice. It sounds like a minor difference, but it does change the decisionmaking process.

 

I still don't understand. If I use the command dial to concentrate fire each squadron in my firing arc and range I should be rolling 3 blue anti squadron attack dice? I thought the command lasted the entire turn of my attack phase meaning both of my attacks from different hull zones would benefit. If i were using the token I would get to re-roll 1 die on each attack against each squadron.

 

Is that not the case?

Edited by Rottenreason

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If a ship uses Concentrate fire does this apply to anti squadron attack values? If my Neb B is attacking 3 squads in it's front arc can I now roll 3 blue dice or do I only roll 2?

You would be able to use your Concentrate Fire command against one of the three squadrons.

Also, from the way you worded things it sounds like you're using Concentrate Fire before your initial roll. Your opportunity to use Concentrate Fire is after the initial roll of the dice. It sounds like a minor difference, but it does change the decisionmaking process.

I still don't understand. If I use the command dial to concentrate fire each squadron in my firing arc and range I should be rolling 3 blue anti squadron attack dice? I thought the command lasted the entire turn of my attack phase meaning both of my attacks from different hull zones would benefit. If i were using the token I would get to re-roll 1 die on each attack against each squadron.

 

Is that not the case?

No, you can only use Concentrate Fire to affect a single die roll.

Let's say you have both a dial and a token for Concentrate Fire. You have your ship attack 3 squadrons that are in one of your arcs, and your ship has one blue die for anti-squadron fire.

You roll one blue die against the first squadron. You decide you don't want to use Concentrate Fire to modify that roll.

You roll one blue die against the first squadron. This time you want to use Concentrate Fire, and now you decide whether you want to just use the dial, just use the token, or combine them. You decide to use just the dial, so at that point in time you roll a second blue die.

Time for the third squadron. You again roll just one blue die. Even though you still have that Concentrate Fire token, you cannot use it. Each command can only be used once per activation, and you already used that command on the previous squadron.

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If a ship uses Concentrate fire does this apply to anti squadron attack values? If my Neb B is attacking 3 squads in it's front arc can I now roll 3 blue dice or do I only roll 2?

You would be able to use your Concentrate Fire command against one of the three squadrons.

Also, from the way you worded things it sounds like you're using Concentrate Fire before your initial roll. Your opportunity to use Concentrate Fire is after the initial roll of the dice. It sounds like a minor difference, but it does change the decisionmaking process.

 

I still don't understand. If I use the command dial to concentrate fire each squadron in my firing arc and range I should be rolling 3 blue anti squadron attack dice? I thought the command lasted the entire turn of my attack phase meaning both of my attacks from different hull zones would benefit. If i were using the token I would get to re-roll 1 die on each attack against each squadron.

 

Is that not the case?

 

No, you can only use Concentrate Fire to affect a single die roll.

Let's say you have both a dial and a token for Concentrate Fire. You have your ship attack 3 squadrons that are in one of your arcs, and your ship has one blue die for anti-squadron fire.

You roll one blue die against the first squadron. You decide you don't want to use Concentrate Fire to modify that roll.

You roll one blue die against the first squadron. This time you want to use Concentrate Fire, and now you decide whether you want to just use the dial, just use the token, or combine them. You decide to use just the dial, so at that point in time you roll a second blue die.

Time for the third squadron. You again roll just one blue die. Even though you still have that Concentrate Fire token, you cannot use it. Each command can only be used once per activation, and you already used that command on the previous squadron.

 

Ah your right I looked at the reference book page 4 bullet point 2

"Dial: Add one attack die to the attack pool. That die must be of a color in the attack pool"

 

Once again the reference rules spell it out better than the Learn to play rule book.

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The Learn to play guide is basicly an insult to all players saying:

"We don't think you can handle the actual rules of this game, so here is a dumbed down version you can try."

And if you are bold enough to ignore that and try reading the actual rules you are greated by the word "STOP!" and you are firmly directed back to the dumbed down LTP game.

 

Yes yes, I know, I'm a bitter old man who don't like change. Guilty as charged!

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The Learn to play guide is basicly an insult to all players saying:

"We don't think you can handle the actual rules of this game, so here is a dumbed down version you can try."

And if you are bold enough to ignore that and try reading the actual rules you are greated by the word "STOP!" and you are firmly directed back to the dumbed down LTP game.

 

Yes yes, I know, I'm a bitter old man who don't like change. Guilty as charged!

I see it a bit differently.

 

The LTP rules explain and structure the rules that is optimized for contextual and thematic connotations, understandability  and order to improve the chances of a good introduction.

 

The RR rules are optimized for completeness, exactness and look-up-friendliness.

 

Usually rulesets attempt to strike a balance between the two so you only need one rulebook. Generally they fail.

So I am very happy to have both without having to compromise: One Book for your first game and figuring it out, another that you will use in all subsequent games.

 

The "Stop" in the RR rules is very valid, since few people new to a game will easily learn a full rulebook that is structured by "alphabetic order of game terms and concepts".

Edited by chrisdk

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The Learn to play guide is basicly an insult to all players saying:

"We don't think you can handle the actual rules of this game, so here is a dumbed down version you can try."

And if you are bold enough to ignore that and try reading the actual rules you are greated by the word "STOP!" and you are firmly directed back to the dumbed down LTP game.

 

Yes yes, I know, I'm a bitter old man who don't like change. Guilty as charged!

I agree with this 100% I opened my core set and say the 2 guides/books. My eye went to the Reference and as soon as I saw that "STOP!" I did. But in truth you shouldn't the reference is the core rules. The Learn to play is simple this is how to get started. I know first hand now reading the Learn to play has my basics all kinds of messed up right now. 

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The Learn to play guide is basicly an insult to all players saying:

"We don't think you can handle the actual rules of this game, so here is a dumbed down version you can try."

And if you are bold enough to ignore that and try reading the actual rules you are greated by the word "STOP!" and you are firmly directed back to the dumbed down LTP game.

 

Yes yes, I know, I'm a bitter old man who don't like change. Guilty as charged!

I agree with this 100% I opened my core set and say the 2 guides/books. My eye went to the Reference and as soon as I saw that "STOP!" I did. But in truth you shouldn't the reference is the core rules. The Learn to play is simple this is how to get started. I know first hand now reading the Learn to play has my basics all kinds of messed up right now. 

 

So far all cases that I have come across from people getting the LTP "contradicting" Reference Rules were a case of either understanding the wording in the LTP wrong in the first place, or finding something vague in there and "clarifying" it in contradiction to the Reference Rules or something intentionally left out of the basic LTP game.

 

Do you have some examples that don't fit either of the three categories?

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just need a quick confirmation:

 

The squadron's base is positioned on the imaginative firing-arc-line of a ship. The squadron's base is therfore in two adjacent firing arcs of the ship. The ship can spend its two attacks, to attack the same squadron from each hull zone.

thx

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just need a quick confirmation:

 

The squadron's base is positioned on the imaginative firing-arc-line of a ship. The squadron's base is therfore in two adjacent firing arcs of the ship. The ship can spend its two attacks, to attack the same squadron from each hull zone.

thx

correct.

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The Learn to play guide is basicly an insult to all players saying:

"We don't think you can handle the actual rules of this game, so here is a dumbed down version you can try."

And if you are bold enough to ignore that and try reading the actual rules you are greated by the word "STOP!" and you are firmly directed back to the dumbed down LTP game.

 

Yes yes, I know, I'm a bitter old man who don't like change. Guilty as charged!

I agree with this 100% I opened my core set and say the 2 guides/books. My eye went to the Reference and as soon as I saw that "STOP!" I did. But in truth you shouldn't the reference is the core rules. The Learn to play is simple this is how to get started. I know first hand now reading the Learn to play has my basics all kinds of messed up right now. 

 

 

I don't know. I actually liked the Learn to Play guide. It let me and my friends start with a simplified version of the rules to start with and get playing within a short time of opening the box. It's the tutorial.

 

Then having a reference book separate and laid out cleanly and clearly lets you have something that you can check for rules clarifications really fast. No skimming through flavor text and pictures trying to extract the important sentence from an entire page. It's all just there. 

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The Learn to play guide is basicly an insult to all players saying:

"We don't think you can handle the actual rules of this game, so here is a dumbed down version you can try."

And if you are bold enough to ignore that and try reading the actual rules you are greated by the word "STOP!" and you are firmly directed back to the dumbed down LTP game.

 

Yes yes, I know, I'm a bitter old man who don't like change. Guilty as charged!

I agree with this 100% I opened my core set and say the 2 guides/books. My eye went to the Reference and as soon as I saw that "STOP!" I did. But in truth you shouldn't the reference is the core rules. The Learn to play is simple this is how to get started. I know first hand now reading the Learn to play has my basics all kinds of messed up right now. 

 

So far all cases that I have come across from people getting the LTP "contradicting" Reference Rules were a case of either understanding the wording in the LTP wrong in the first place, or finding something vague in there and "clarifying" it in contradiction to the Reference Rules or something intentionally left out of the basic LTP game.

 

Do you have some examples that don't fit either of the three categories?

 

One thing I didn't see in the LTP was if you have a command token and reveal a command you can use both commands. IE. the previous round i took a Navigation token and saved it. This round I reveal a Squadron command I can use both.

 

I am pretty sure I misread the rules for squadrons. My first plays I would move the squadrons into attack range and then if for what ever reason I would move them apart. Off the top of my head I don't think thing it was stated clear enough in the LTP rules.

 

I'd have to go back and try to run another game using the LTP rules to see what kind of misses are in that book vs the reference. I have to step back though I won't say it's an insult having the LTP. I think FFG could or should retitle the two books. LTP is fine but call the reference book the Official Rule book.

Edited by Rottenreason

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So, still getting a feel for the rules here.  Each ship may perform 2 attacks, one from each of 2 hull zones.  these may be directed at the same hull zone on an enemy ship, different hull zones on the same or 2 different ships, or at fighter squadrons.

 

So, for one of the above attacks, I may use my anti-squadron armament (on my ship) to attack all enemy squadrons that are, within the range of my dice, and, are within that particular firing arc, correct?

 

If so, then I may use both of my attacks in a round to attack all fighters on 2 seperate hull zones, or use one attack to fire my battery armament at an enemy ship and still use my second attack to fire at all enemy squadrons in a particular arc, correct?

 

so, if I have a nebulon B escort frigate (which has an anti-squadron armament of 2 blue dice)  and i have 3 tie fighter squadrons in my front arc, and 3 more in my left firing arc, and can spen both of my attacks and throw 2 blue dice at each squadron, assuming they are at close or medium range and in the firing arc in question, correct.  (in effect rolling attack dice 6 different times?)

 

is everything I said here correct?

 

Thanks

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