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EmpireErik

Decimator + Vader + Gunner

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To clarify: the reason Vader doesn't bypass shields is that he says the target "suffer 1 critical damage." That's specific language you can trace all the way back to the core rulebook, and it means his damage works exactly the same way as damage from any other source.

 

I want to load out the Oicunn Decimator with Vader and Gunner to do the following:  Turret Attack (miss) -> Vader effect - > Gunner re-attack or new attack (hit or miss) ->  Vader attack.

You could do it this way, but you don't have to. Because Vader and Gunner are both triggered "After you perform an attack", you can decide to resolve them in any order. So although it's perfectly legal to use the attack-Vader-attack-Vader sequence you outlined, you can choose instead to resolve the second attack before dealing with Vader:
  • Miss with an attack. Vader and Gunner are both triggered, and you choose to resolve Gunner first; Vader waits a moment.
  • Make your second attack. Vader is triggered again.
  • Resolve Vader #1, dealing damage.
  • Resolve Vader #2, dealing damage.
It's important because you may deal damage in Step 2, which means you may get to skip one or both Vader activations (and save yourself some damage).

Holy guacamole. Is this real?

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To clarify: the reason Vader doesn't bypass shields is that he says the target "suffer 1 critical damage." That's specific language you can trace all the way back to the core rulebook, and it means his damage works exactly the same way as damage from any other source.

 

I want to load out the Oicunn Decimator with Vader and Gunner to do the following:  Turret Attack (miss) -> Vader effect - > Gunner re-attack or new attack (hit or miss) ->  Vader attack.

You could do it this way, but you don't have to. Because Vader and Gunner are both triggered "After you perform an attack", you can decide to resolve them in any order. So although it's perfectly legal to use the attack-Vader-attack-Vader sequence you outlined, you can choose instead to resolve the second attack before dealing with Vader:
  • Miss with an attack. Vader and Gunner are both triggered, and you choose to resolve Gunner first; Vader waits a moment.
  • Make your second attack. Vader is triggered again.
  • Resolve Vader #1, dealing damage.
  • Resolve Vader #2, dealing damage.
It's important because you may deal damage in Step 2, which means you may get to skip one or both Vader activations (and save yourself some damage).
Holy guacamole. Is this real?

 

 

Uh... yes? It's a pretty straightforward application of a well-known rule (when two effects occur simultaneously, you can choose which to resolve first). 

 

I'm feeling a bit gaslighted, though. Half the regulars here seem to think this was resolved a long time ago, and the other half have never heard of it.

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Uh... yes? It's a pretty straightforward application of a well-known rule (when two effects occur simultaneously, you can choose which to resolve first). 

 

I'm feeling a bit gaslighted, though. Half the regulars here seem to think this was resolved a long time ago, and the other half have never heard of it.

 

 

I never knew you could do this until reading up here.

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It's written into the core rules. If two or more abilities trigger at the same time ("after you perform an attack", in this case*), the player gets to decide which order he wants to resolve them in. Once you start resolving one, you have to do it fully, which includes anything that it triggers.
 
A similar situation under the old decloak rules is the combination of Push the Limit, Advanced Sensors and Decloak. If you Advanced Sensors first, you then trigger Push the Limit before you go back to handle the Decloak.
 
* Although Gunner does have the extra stipulation of requiring you to not have hit your target. Doesn't change the trigger point, though.
 
EDIT: Future-proofing my Decloak/Adv Sensors example.

 

 

Would you mind showing me exactly where in the rules it says players get to choose what order to resolve their simultaneous effects? I use Darth Vader + Gunner in a list and I would love to use it in this way, it's way more powerful to be able to use Vader after you've knocked off their shields with your second attack, but that's very counter-intuitive and I'd hate to have to argue my case in a tournament without clear-cut proof in the rulebook or FAQ. 

 

Here's what I was able to find:

 

3. Modify Attack Dice p11

If a player wants to resolve multiple modifying abilities, he resolves them in the order of his choosing. If the attacker and defender both have abilities that can modify attack dice, the defender resolves all of his abilities before the attacker.

 

5. Modify Defense Dice p12

If a player wants to resolve multiple modifying abilities, he resolves them in the order of his choosing. If the attacker and defender both have abilities that can modify defense dice, the attacker resolves all of his abilities before the defender

 

 

 

This is very close, but these 2 rules are specifically talking about "modifying abilities" that modify dice rolls during the modify dice step of combat, like Chiraneau+Marksmanship or Luke Skywalker+Elusiveness, 2 examples where the order of how you resolves those abilities can affect the final outcome. Gunner and Vader do not modify dice and do not apply during these steps of the game.

 

Initiative p16

If multiple abilities resolve at the same time, the player with initiative resolves his abilities first.

 

 

FAQ: The player with initiative resolves all abilities he would like to resolve, then the other player resolves all abilities he would like to resolve as described on page 16 in the core rulebook.

 

 

FAQ: Simultaneous abilities (such as when both players must trigger Swarm Tactics at the start of the combat phase) are resolved in initiative order.

 

 

No mention of players getting to choose what order to resolve their own effects in.

 

FAQ: If a ship equipped with Darth Vader can attack twice in one round (such as a ship equipped with Gunner or Cluster Missiles), it can use Darth Vader after the first attack. If Darth Vader destroys the ship to which he is equipped, it can still perform its second attack.

 

 

The ambiguous wording of "after the first attack" here doesn't say you can't use Vader's ability after the second Gunner attack, just like it doesn't say you can't apply Vader 2 turns later, that's also technically "after the first attack", but that doesn't give us explicit permission to use Vader whenever we want. Usually when a card uses the word "after" it means immediately after it's triggered.

 

FAQ - Push the Limit:

See Experimental Interface. Free actions, such as a free action granted from Squad Leader, can trigger Push the Limit. This can result in an action interrupting another effect, causing that effect to finish resolving later. For example, if a ship performs a free barrel roll action granted by Expert Handling, it could use that action as a trigger for Push the Limit. After Push the Limit resolves, Expert Handling finishes resolving. If a player uses Push the Limit to attempt an action he is unable to perform (such as attempting to Target Lock a ship that is out of range), he may perform a different action or decide not to use Push the Limit at all.

 

 

This seems to be what everyone is using to justify Attack/Gunner/Vader/Vader, referencing nested triggers (a term which is nowhere to be found in the FAQ or rulebook). But this rule explicitly mentions that it applies to free actions, and neither Vader nor Gunner are a free action, so I understand why people are applying this rule to those upgrades. 

 

I would really like to be able to use Vader+Gunner in this way, but I'm not seeing the written rule that allows it, hope somebody can show me what I'm missing that isn't interpretive. 

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Can't cut and paste rig now, but you're looking for the very first entry in the General section of the FAQ, top of page 14.

 

Yep, so I was actually incorrect saying it was in the core rules.

 

Sorry for the confusion, Tvboy.

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Can't cut and paste rig now, but you're looking for the very first entry in the General section of the FAQ, top of page 14.

 

Thank you, don't know how I missed that. The 48 point Doom Cruiser just got a lot better for me.

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There was an email response from Frank way back saying the order was Attack/Vader/Gunner/Vader. Can't be bothered to find it on the forums. Maybe someone could drop another request to him. But everywhere I play the question was resolved ages ago and agreed as I said.

Have to agree with you, the gunner is a totally separate attack so the first attack must be fully resolved first if you want to use the first vader.  Otherwise, if you want to save vader after another seperate attack, what stops you from saving vader till the end of the round X2 to allow the rest of your squad fire to let the crits go through at the end?  This isnt a timing issue such as PTL or EI where interruptions are considered but Vader is part of a distinct attack.  

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There was an email response from Frank way back saying the order was Attack/Vader/Gunner/Vader. Can't be bothered to find it on the forums. Maybe someone could drop another request to him. But everywhere I play the question was resolved ages ago and agreed as I said.

Have to agree with you, the gunner is a totally separate attack so the first attack must be fully resolved first if you want to use the first vader.  Otherwise, if you want to save vader after another seperate attack, what stops you from saving vader till the end of the round X2 to allow the rest of your squad fire to let the crits go through at the end?  This isnt a timing issue such as PTL or EI where interruptions are considered but Vader is part of a distinct attack.

You can't delay a triggered event indefinitely, as you would if you waited to resolve Vader until the end of the round. But you can certainly delay it until you've resolved other effects with the same trigger, which is what (IMO) you can do here.

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There was an email response from Frank way back saying the order was Attack/Vader/Gunner/Vader. Can't be bothered to find it on the forums. Maybe someone could drop another request to him. But everywhere I play the question was resolved ages ago and agreed as I said.

Have to agree with you, the gunner is a totally separate attack so the first attack must be fully resolved first if you want to use the first vader.  Otherwise, if you want to save vader after another seperate attack, what stops you from saving vader till the end of the round X2 to allow the rest of your squad fire to let the crits go through at the end?  This isnt a timing issue such as PTL or EI where interruptions are considered but Vader is part of a distinct attack.

You can't delay a triggered event indefinitely, as you would if you waited to resolve Vader until the end of the round. But you can certainly delay it until you've resolved other effects with the same trigger, which is what (IMO) you can do here.

 

I not so sure you can.  I think the word in gunner of "immediately" is tripping up people here.  I believe the purpose is to prevent the following:   Lets say Oicunn shoots Xwing red. You decide to then shoot Black Squadron tie.  The decide to gunner a la (Oicunn>BLACK>GUNNER).  "Immediately" prevents black or anyone shooting next- Gunner must be the NEXT attack if you decide and can use it.  Besides, you think you can shoot Xwing red, miss, decide to gunner a different ship-  A wing Green- then say, well, let me backtrack to the first attack deal damage phase so Xwing red gets a crit along with Green.  I think not.  If you miss the deal damage phase in the first attack with Vader you missed the opportunity.    

Edited by Amraam01

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 Besides, you think you can shoot Xwing red, miss, decide to gunner a different ship-  A wing Green- then say, well, let me backtrack to the first attack deal damage phase so Xwing red gets a crit along with Green.  I think not.  If you miss the deal damage phase in the first attack with Vader you missed the opportunity.    

 

Going by the rules, sure we can. Vader is not an attack, he is just a triggered ability. Gunner is also just a triggered ability. They both trigger at the same time, and so the rules as currently written mean that we can resolve them in any order we want. That means we can attack X-wing Red, miss, resolve Gunner and attack a different ship, and then resolve the original Vader trigger.

 

I'm also not sure where you're getting this "deal damage phase" stuff from. Vader is not involved with the damage from the attack at all. He triggers after the attack completes.

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 Besides, you think you can shoot Xwing red, miss, decide to gunner a different ship-  A wing Green- then say, well, let me backtrack to the first attack deal damage phase so Xwing red gets a crit along with Green.  I think not.  If you miss the deal damage phase in the first attack with Vader you missed the opportunity.    

 

Going by the rules, sure we can. Vader is not an attack, he is just a triggered ability. Gunner is also just a triggered ability. They both trigger at the same time, and so the rules as currently written mean that we can resolve them in any order we want. That means we can attack X-wing Red, miss, resolve Gunner and attack a different ship, and then resolve the original Vader trigger.

 

I'm also not sure where you're getting this "deal damage phase" stuff from. Vader is not involved with the damage from the attack at all. He triggers after the attack completes.

 

Because in the rule book you compare results to see damage suffered from the dice (Step 6 Page 10)- then Step 7 deal damage.  You can not arbitrarily decide to hold off on this step and begin another attack while 'saving' Vader.  This is the only time you can deal Crit 1 for Xwing Red and the only time you compare results and see no damage to activate gunner.  If you declare another target, that window has passed to suffer damage for attack 1 (Even Vader's Crit) and you are back to step 1 of another attack.  If you can justify saving Vader for a totally separate independent attack because the card says "after" and has no linkage with the attack 1 on the Xwing, there is no reason why you can not just save him till the end of the round after your squad has fired.  And I am sure everyone will agree that is incorrect.  The interruption step is only referring to who is allowed to attack next, in this case the Gunner's second attack.  

Edited by Amraam01

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From a previous long discussion FAQ  I dug up.  https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/93421-suicide-vader/?hl=%2Bvader+%2Bgunner#entry907367

 

The following sure seems clear as is means Attack>Vader>Gunner>Vader.  Otherwise they would have said, "Yes twice after both attacks."  Instead they specifically stated ONCE after EACH attack.  

 

Q: If a ship attacks twice through some effect,
such as the Gunner upgrade, can the ship
use the ability of Darth Vader (the Upgrade
card) twice?


A: Yes, once after each attack.

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 Besides, you think you can shoot Xwing red, miss, decide to gunner a different ship-  A wing Green- then say, well, let me backtrack to the first attack deal damage phase so Xwing red gets a crit along with Green.  I think not.  If you miss the deal damage phase in the first attack with Vader you missed the opportunity.    

 

Going by the rules, sure we can. Vader is not an attack, he is just a triggered ability. Gunner is also just a triggered ability. They both trigger at the same time, and so the rules as currently written mean that we can resolve them in any order we want. That means we can attack X-wing Red, miss, resolve Gunner and attack a different ship, and then resolve the original Vader trigger.

 

I'm also not sure where you're getting this "deal damage phase" stuff from. Vader is not involved with the damage from the attack at all. He triggers after the attack completes.

 

Because in the rule book you compare results to see damage suffered from the dice (Step 6 Page 10)- then Step 7 deal damage.  You can not arbitrarily decide to hold off on this step and begin another attack while 'saving' Vader.  This is the only time you can deal Crit 1 for Xwing Red and the only time you compare results and see no damage to activate gunner.  If you declare another target, that window has passed to suffer damage for attack 1 (Even Vader's Crit) and you are back to step 1 of another attack.  If you can justify saving Vader for a totally separate independent attack because the card says "after" and has no linkage with the attack 1 on the Xwing, there is no reason why you can not just save him till the end of the round after your squad has fired.  And I am sure everyone will agree that is incorrect.  The interruption step is only referring to who is allowed to attack next, in this case the Gunner's second attack.  

 

 

Please don't take this as me being rude, but you are playing this situation completely wrong. I don't even know how you've reached your conclusions, to be honest.

 

First of all, Vader does not take effect during the Deal Damage step. He is a triggered ability that activates after you perform an attack (ie. the attack must complete in full), so all the steps of the attack must complete first, so any damage from it is long resolved by the time Vader triggers.

 

The rest of your argument falls apart from there. We're not saving Vader until the end of another attack; he is simply waiting to resolve while another ability that triggers at the same time resolves first. That ability just happens to be causing an attack in this situation, but it wouldn't matter what the ability does. If we choose to resolve it first, then by the current letter of the law Vader waits until it finishes.

 

And, to address your next post, that entry is no longer in the FAQ. Therefore it doesn't really mean much of anything (though it might be added again), and technically resolving it this way wouldn't violate it. Vader is still triggered once after each attack, but he just waits for other abilities to resolve first. We're allowed to choose the order of resolution for all other abilities; there's no real reason in the written rules why Vader should act differently.

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 Besides, you think you can shoot Xwing red, miss, decide to gunner a different ship-  A wing Green- then say, well, let me backtrack to the first attack deal damage phase so Xwing red gets a crit along with Green.  I think not.  If you miss the deal damage phase in the first attack with Vader you missed the opportunity.    

 

Going by the rules, sure we can. Vader is not an attack, he is just a triggered ability. Gunner is also just a triggered ability. They both trigger at the same time, and so the rules as currently written mean that we can resolve them in any order we want. That means we can attack X-wing Red, miss, resolve Gunner and attack a different ship, and then resolve the original Vader trigger.

 

I'm also not sure where you're getting this "deal damage phase" stuff from. Vader is not involved with the damage from the attack at all. He triggers after the attack completes.

 

Because in the rule book you compare results to see damage suffered from the dice (Step 6 Page 10)- then Step 7 deal damage.  You can not arbitrarily decide to hold off on this step and begin another attack while 'saving' Vader.  This is the only time you can deal Crit 1 for Xwing Red and the only time you compare results and see no damage to activate gunner.  If you declare another target, that window has passed to suffer damage for attack 1 (Even Vader's Crit) and you are back to step 1 of another attack.  If you can justify saving Vader for a totally separate independent attack because the card says "after" and has no linkage with the attack 1 on the Xwing, there is no reason why you can not just save him till the end of the round after your squad has fired.  And I am sure everyone will agree that is incorrect.  The interruption step is only referring to who is allowed to attack next, in this case the Gunner's second attack.  

 

 

Please don't take this as me being rude, but you are playing this situation completely wrong. I don't even know how you've reached your conclusions, to be honest.

 

First of all, Vader does not take effect during the Deal Damage step. He is a triggered ability that activates after you perform an attack (ie. the attack must complete in full), so all the steps of the attack must complete first, so any damage from it is long resolved by the time Vader triggers.

 

The rest of your argument falls apart from there. We're not saving Vader until the end of another attack; he is simply waiting to resolve while another ability that triggers at the same time resolves first. That ability just happens to be causing an attack in this situation, but it wouldn't matter what the ability does. If we choose to resolve it first, then by the current letter of the law Vader waits until it finishes.

 

And, to address your next post, that entry is no longer in the FAQ. Therefore it doesn't really mean much of anything (though it might be added again), and technically resolving it this way wouldn't violate it. Vader is still triggered once after each attack, but he just waits for other abilities to resolve first. We're allowed to choose the order of resolution for all other abilities; there's no real reason in the written rules why Vader should act differently.

 

Well the information from the prior FAQ exactly supported how I am stating it.  That is the latest information we had, and most importantly it did not state "Yes twice after both attacks." So saying it is totally irrelevant seems quite dismissive of prior information specifically addressing this issue solely to fit your view.  Now if NEW information overrode it (Such as Cloaking rules), then I would be on your side.  But, nothing new seems to have done that and that is the latest known.  Maybe they took it out because clarification was not needed because it was thought to be settled and to keep the FAQ concise.  Who knows?  But at the time it settled rules.  

 

 You call a separate attack an ability?  A separate attack is simply that- a separate attack and NOT an interruptable ability.  I am sure everyone will agree an attack is quite separate and distinct from an interrupt able ability as Push the Limit.  Like I said if you take "After an attack" as you do why exactly do you decide to only resolve it after Gunner attacks?  Why suddenly then and not much later? 

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@Amraam01: Your counterargument is aimed at a point no one is making. I'm not saying that because Vader happens after an attack, you can delay using him for as long as you want.

I'm saying that when you make an attack that misses, Vader and Gunner are both triggered. According to the rules, two effects that are triggered at the same time have equal priority: both have to be resolved before you move on, but you get to decide which one to resolve first.

So instead of choosing to use Vader first, I don't see why you couldn't use Gunner first. It's possible that I'm wrong, but if so its not because there's an unwritten rule about not interrupting attacks, or because Vader is somehow part of an attack.

Edited by Vorpal Sword

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Here's a generic example of how the rules of X-Wing deal with 2 abilities that trigger at the same time:

  • Event X triggers both abilities A and B
    (The player decides which ability to resolve first, eg: Ability B)
  • Ability B resolves
    • Any abilities triggered by ability B resolves
  • Ability A resolves
    • Any abilities triggered by ability A resolve
  • Play now continues after event X

 

 

 

 

Now, if we look at Gunner and Vader crew:

  • Player performs an attack that does not hit
  • "After performing an attack" triggers both Gunner and Vader
    (The player decides which ability to resolve first, eg: Gunner)
  • Gunner resolves
    • Resolving Gunner triggers Vader
    • Vader resolves
  • Vader resolves
  • Play now continues

 

 

 

 

There is obviously no question of being allowed to resolve Vader much later, as you seem to think this suggests.

 

This seems to be the hearth of your incomprehension:

 

 

 

You call a separate attack an ability?  A separate attack is simply that- a separate attack and NOT an interruptable ability.  I am sure everyone will agree an attack is quite separate and distinct from an interrupt able ability as Push the Limit.

 

I see no reason why a separate attack cannot be an interruptible ability. The Gunner card is pretty straight forward...
It's an ability that triggers "After you perform an attack that does not hit" and allows you to "perform a primary weapon attack".

 

Also, an attack has always been interruptible. Many cards interrupt the normal steps of an attack: Draw their fire, Xizor, R3-A2, Tactician, Rebel Captive, and many others trigger during (and interrupt) an attack.

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You call a separate attack an ability?  A separate attack is simply that- a separate attack and NOT an interruptable ability.  I am sure everyone will agree an attack is quite separate and distinct from an interrupt able ability as Push the Limit.

 

I see no reason why a separate attack cannot be an interruptible ability.

A separate attack actually MUST be an interruptable ability.  Otherwise, no other ability could apply during the Gunner attack because they'd be "blocked" by Gunner's resolution.

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You call a separate attack an ability?  A separate attack is simply that- a separate attack and NOT an interruptable ability.  I am sure everyone will agree an attack is quite separate and distinct from an interrupt able ability as Push the Limit.

 

I see no reason why a separate attack cannot be an interruptible ability.

A separate attack actually MUST be an interruptable ability.  Otherwise, no other ability could apply during the Gunner attack because they'd be "blocked" by Gunner's resolution.

Once you start the second attack, Gunner has resolved.

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I see no reason why a separate attack cannot be an interruptible ability.

A separate attack actually MUST be an interruptable ability.  Otherwise, no other ability could apply during the Gunner attack because they'd be "blocked" by Gunner's resolution.
Once you start the second attack, Gunner has resolved.
 

No. That is incorrect.

 

Gunner instructs you to perform a primary weapon attack, therefore Gunner is not done resolving until the primary weapon attack is completed.

  • Player performs an attack that does not hit
  • "After performing an attack" triggers both Gunner and Vader
  • Player decides to resolve Gunner first
    • "Immediately perform a primary weapon attack"
      • "After performing an attack" triggers Vader
      • Vader resolves
  • Vader resolves
  • Play now continues
Edited by Klutz

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You call a separate attack an ability?  A separate attack is simply that- a separate attack and NOT an interruptable ability.  I am sure everyone will agree an attack is quite separate and distinct from an interrupt able ability as Push the Limit.

 

I see no reason why a separate attack cannot be an interruptible ability.

A separate attack actually MUST be an interruptable ability.  Otherwise, no other ability could apply during the Gunner attack because they'd be "blocked" by Gunner's resolution.

Once you start the second attack, Gunner has resolved.

 

We don't have super-precise timing details on this, but I don't think so.  When we have something like Push the Limit, we know the granted action is fully "contained" by PtL.  Is that only because there's more to it?  Would PtL be done as soon as you started the second action if it weren't for the stress clause?

 

I don't think any ability is "done" until you've actually completed all parts of what it tells you to do.  Gunner tells you to make an attack.  You do so, then look at Gunner - is there anything else?  No?  So NOW Gunner has completely resolved.  You don't say "Okay, Gunner's telling me to make an attack so let me see if there's anything after that.  There's not, so Gunner's done and now I make my attack."

 

I think this makes sense for other triggers, too.  Say an action lets you do X.  You perform the action.  Is that action now resolved before you've done X?  Would PtL trigger at the same time as X?  I don't think the action is done (and hence any "After you perform an action" triggers don't go off) until you've done everything, including completing X.

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My issues with Attack-Gunner-Vader-Vader is that it would raise more questions than it solves.

Do you have to decide to activate Vader from the first shot before shooting the second time? If so what happens if the Gunner shot kills the initial target? Do you still have to activate Vader, do you still take damage from Vader? What about the second Vader use? Do you have to declare you are activating him before you resolve the first one? If the first Vader draws Direct hit and the target is destroyed what happens?

 

How to resolve Vader on a destroyed target?

-- Attack

     -- Miss Target 1

     -- Declare Gunner / Vader on Target 1

          -- Resolve Gunner on Target 1

               -- Destroy Target 1

          -- How to resolve Vader?

 

Or this way...

-- Attack

     -- Miss Target 1 who is on 1 Hull

     -- Declare Gunner / Vader 1 on Target 1

          -- Resolve Gunner on Target 2 with Dead Man's Switch as R1 of Target 1

               -- Target 2 destroyed (Either by Vader or Shot)

               -- Target 1 destroyed by Dead Man's Switch

          -- How to resolve Vader 1?

 

What order to resolve the active Vaders?

-- Attack

     -- Miss Target 1

     -- Declare Gunner / Vader 1 on Target 1

          -- Resolve Gunner on Target 1

               -- Target 1 on 2 hull

               -- Declare Vader 2 on Target 1

               -- Target 1 draws Direct Hit and is destroyed from Vader 2

          -- How to resolve Vader 1?

 

Does shooter resolve Attack-Gunner-Vader 1-Vader 2 or Attack-Gunner-Vader 2-Vader 1?

 

Shooter on 1 Hull

-- Attack

     -- Miss Target 1

     -- Declare Gunner / Vader 1 on Target 1

          -- Resolve Gunner on Target 2 with Dead Man's Switch at R1 of shooter

               -- Target 2 destroyed by shot

               -- Shooting ship now on 0 hull and is destroyed 

          -- Can shooter resolve Vader 1? (Given shooter has 0 hull)

 
Shooter ship on 1 hull. Xizor at Range 2. There is a Dead Man's Switch equipped pirate at range 1 of shooter and Xizor on 1 hull.

-- Attack

     -- Miss Target Xizor

     -- Declare Gunner / Vader on Target Xizor

          -- Resolve Gunner on Target Xizor

               -- Target Xizor has 1 uncancelled {Kaboom}

               -- Passes it to Pirate at R1 who is destroyed. Dead Man's Switch activates.

               -- Shooting ship now on 0 hull

          -- Can shooter resolve Vader against Xizor?

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My issues with Attack-Gunner-Vader-Vader is that it would raise more questions than it solves.

Do you have to decide to activate Vader from the first shot before shooting the second time? If so what happens if the Gunner shot kills the initial target? Do you still have to activate Vader, do you still take damage from Vader? What about the second Vader use? Do you have to declare you are activating him before you resolve the first one? If the first Vader draws Direct hit and the target is destroyed what happens?

 

First question: No, of course you don't. He has been triggered, and waits to resolve while we deal with another card that triggers at the same time. The choice to use him doesn't come up until his turn does.

 

If the Gunner shot kills the initial target, or if the first Vader destroys it, then when the time comes to resolve (the other) Vader, you simply decide "No, I will not use him." Just as you could, for example, resolve Push the Limit, then come to Experimental Interface and decide "No, I will not use this."

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If you fire at target A, miss, then fire at target B thanks to Gunner, you resolve Vader on target B, then Vader on target A.

Like if you PtL, then EI. You'll get EI's stress before PtL's.

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