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Courchevel

Vilya

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Here an old mecanisms that still needs clarification for me :

If you exhaust Elrond and Vilya to reveal an ally on the top of your deck can you :

1/ put him into play

2/ play him

3/ chose to play him or put him into play

Of course assuming that you don't put the card back on the bottom of your deck.

May be it is not significant for you but it is still very different for me.

Edited by Courchevel

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Here an old mecanisms that still needs clarification for me :

If you exhaust Elrond and Vilya to reveal an ally on the top of your deck can you :

1/ put him into play

2/ play him

3/ chose to play him or put him into play

Of course assuming that you don't put the card back on the bottom of your deck.

May be it is not significant fir you but it is still very different for me.

 

I think the wording of Vilya indicates (3) - you choose.

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I got someone sustaining that only events are played since they cannot be put into play, and the attachments and ally are only put into play.

Would you have the choice to put an event into play then ?

Edited by Courchevel

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I seem to remember having this discussion long ago as well.  I guess an event must be "played" and cannot be "put into play," but I don't know.  The card does say "if able," so you have to choose something that is legal (you can't, for example, play a unique card that has already been played).  I also am not aware of any cards that would interact differently should an event be "played" vs "put into play."

 

Based on the wording, you should be able to choose whether an ally or attachment is played or put into play.  

Edited by GrandSpleen

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I think it's pretty simple: "You can immediately play or put into play the revealed card for no cost, if able".

 

Play applies to events and put into play applies to allies and attachments. It really depends on what's on the top of your deck. A nice little combo that makes this always successful is Hero Gandalf's passive ability. 

 

Additionally, the fact that Vilya's power is an Action means that you can trigger it during whatever phase and for whatever sphere. 

Edited by dimile

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Play applies to events and put into play applies to allies and attachments. It really depends on what's on the top of your deck. A nice little combo that makes this always successful is Hero Gandalf's passive ability. 

 

 

 

It's important to say, though, that there is nothing from preventing you from using Vilya to "put into play" an ally or attachment.  The wording confers choice, and I can't see any way to construe it otherwise.  

 

If you were restricted to "playing" allies and not "putting them into play," you could use not Vilya to get around a restriction such as the "one ally per round as a group" in Escape from Dol Guldur.  So it's an important distinction to make!

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Wathever card you can play (ally, attachement or event) with Vilya, you play it, whenever you use Vilya's ability. It's when you can't play the card (like revealing a second copy of a unique card already in play or an event that doesn't apply) that you put that card under your deck.

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This has been discussed several times and I once had the same question.  I do not believe we have ever received an official answer.

 

If you use Vilya and Erebor Hammersmith is the top card of your deck, if you are allowed to "play" him, then you can trigger Erebor Hammersmith's response.

 

Other cards that operate the same way are the following (although Lord of Morthond is currently moot because there is currently no way for Elrond to get the printed leadership resource icon).

 

- Lord of Morthond

- Renewed Friendship

 

If we assume the argument that "events are played" and not "put into play" then that means when Amon Hen is the active location you could not Vilya any events. Alternatively, if you can "put them into play", then you could still Vilya events while such an effect is active. 

 

In addition to Amon Hen, there is a treachery in the Antlered Crown that makes you not be able to play events for the rest of the round.  My friend used Vilya after that card was revealed and it was The Galadhrim's Greetings.  We played that he could not Vilya it to err on the side of caution even though it wasn't entirely clear to us whether or not Vilya would allow us to bypass the treachery. 

Edited by cmabr002

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There is also the troll Bert, which has the text "Players cannot play attachment cards on Troll enemies".  So if we use Vilya with an attachment as the top card of our deck and choose to "put it into play", then it seemingly bypasses Bert's effect even though I'm fairly confident this is not meant to be the case...It also seems like if Ranger Spikes was already in play, it would attach to Bert since it was not "played on" him.  It was just there and attached to him, but this again seems completely wrong to me.

 

Durin's Bane and The Witch-king (from the Massing at Osgiliath) have the same text.

Edited by cmabr002

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Actually, Ranger spikes on those trolls is legal... from an old ruling in this thread:

 

"You are correct. The Ranger Spikes are played into the staging area and not on the trolls. Therefore, the troll's game text 'Players cannot play attachments on Troll enemies' does not apply. Cheers, Caleb"

 

Durin's Bane can't ever leave the staging area (and then return to it), but it seems like the Witch-King also could get stuck in spikes.

Edited by GrandSpleen

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Actually, Ranger spikes on those trolls is legal... from an old ruling in this thread:

 

"You are correct. The Ranger Spikes are played into the staging area and not on the trolls. Therefore, the troll's game text 'Players cannot play attachments on Troll enemies' does not apply. Cheers, Caleb"

 

Durin's Bane can't ever leave the staging area (and then return to it), but it seems like the Witch-King also could get stuck in spikes.

 

WHAT???   :blink:  I've mever seen this before! It's tru that the wording on all the traps is ''Play Ranger Spikes into the staging area unattached.

If unattached, attach Ranger Spikes to the next eligible enemy that enters the staging area.''

 

So players do not play the attachment on the troll but they only attach it? Wow... That is so subtle... and it makes those traps even more tempting!!

 

That also explains the Forest snare that must be attached directly to the enemy getting blocked by the 'Players cannot play attachments on enemy'.

 

Well, Damrod, you are now Boss.

Edited by Lecitadin

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One thing to be careful about though: we do have cards like Oliphaunts and Mumaks that say "Cannot have attachments" or something to that effect.  These cards can't get a trap attached to them by any means.

 

Or so you think! Technically it says they cannot "have" them.  Well, we know from prior rulings that ownership of traps stays with its owner even when attached to the enemy.  Therefore I still have the trap and the enemy does not!  The power! :ph34r:

Edited by cmabr002

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One thing to be careful about though: we do have cards like Oliphaunts and Mumaks that say "Cannot have attachments" or something to that effect.  These cards can't get a trap attached to them by any means.

 

Or so you think! Technically it says they cannot "have" them.  Well, we know from prior rulings that ownership of traps stays with its owner even when attached to the enemy.  Therefore I still have the trap and the enemy does not!  The power! :ph34r:

 

 

 

I'm not sure about this, because it means that Beorn could also get attachments, but he doesn't. Ennemies cannot have attachments placed on them, wathever the attachment is.

But it's only a minority of ennemies that cannot get traps.

Or not?

Edited by Lecitadin

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Here an old mecanisms that still needs clarification for me :

If you exhaust Elrond and Vilya to reveal an ally on the top of your deck can you :

1/ put him into play

2/ play him

3/ chose to play him or put him into play

Of course assuming that you don't put the card back on the bottom of your deck.

May be it is not significant for you but it is still very different for me.

 

I have received a ruling from Caleb regarding this situation that, to my knowledge, had never been answered by a developer until now, though I may have overlooked it.

 

 

Q: If you exhaust Elrond and Vilya to reveal an ally on the top of your deck can you : 1) put him into play at no cost, 2) play him at no cost, or 3) choose to play him at no cost or put him into play?

 

A: When you use Vilya’s ability and the top card of your deck is an ally or attachment, you put it into play. The added language about “play at no cost” is there for when the top card of your deck is an event, because you don’t put events into play.

Edited by cmabr002

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Here an old mecanisms that still needs clarification for me :

If you exhaust Elrond and Vilya to reveal an ally on the top of your deck can you :

1/ put him into play

2/ play him

3/ chose to play him or put him into play

Of course assuming that you don't put the card back on the bottom of your deck.

May be it is not significant for you but it is still very different for me.

 

I have received a ruling from Caleb regarding this situation that, to my knowledge, had never been answered by a developer until now, though I may have overlooked it.

 

 

Q: If you exhaust Elrond and Vilya to reveal an ally on the top of your deck can you : 1) put him into play at no cost, 2) play him at no cost, or 3) choose to play him at no cost or put him into play?

 

A: When you use Vilya’s ability and the top card of your deck is an ally or attachment, you put it into play. The added language about “play at no cost” is there for when the top card of your deck is an event, because you don’t put events into play.

 

 

So, Vilya will not work with Erebor Hammersmith.

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