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Thenightgaunt

Are the prices a bit high?

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In reality, I've played 1 game so far and I think there might be too many fighters in the box. If some of them had been left out and the price $10+ cheaper I would have been just as happy.

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For the record Infinity rules are free online. However $150 at 10 models sounds like no HI or Tags. Probably not an ITS list.

My apolgies. I doubled checked and found thier 3ED Rulebook up for sale for $60 on thier site also saw the Quickstart rules for download, but I guess they do offer it in free PDF now.

Edited by ScottieATF

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I am not sure it really matters though for the wave 1 in ship costs. I am thinking that lists may include CR90 spams, Simgle VSD with TIE spams, ASF with X-WIngs. I dont think lists are going to be enormous in costs but I do think I am getting WAY more value for my $100 core set. (and like I sad I have 2, and for peoples age assumptions I am 25, no kids and a decent security job)

Well, at least the "Single VSD" and "Single ASF" won't happen. I think it is near impossible to put 200 points into either of those ships and you cannot have more than 100 points of squadrons in a 300 point list.

 

Hmmmm missed that rule in the fleet building. Hmmmmmm then likely a VDS and GSD or so.

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A new PS4 is 399.99 ish.  And you have not bought a game yet, and those are usually 59.99 new.

So if you wanted to buy a new PS4 and a few new games thats a rough total of $520 right now, even if you cut that in half by buying used it's still well over the cost of the cost of the starter box.  I just look at the cost as if I am rebuilding my PC or getting a new console, so in my opinion the startup cost of $100 isn't bad at all.

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So now we base cost on how imposing it is?

 

For everyone's info, I'm just playing devil's advocate here. Not really try to argue with everyone, but I do think it's a little expensive and hope they lower the prices so more people can get in to this game. Let the friendly discussion continue.

 

 

I'd say yes. A big part of determining any price for a product is not only what the "price of goods sold" will be but the level of profit you want to make back and what you think you can charge your consumers.

 

For example, lets say someone a company owned a very successful wargamming IP and had been producing metal figurines for it for years. Then they change over to much more inexpensive plastic minis loosing a significant level of quality as a result. Now the plastic minis are a new product. It doesn't matter that they're identical in almost every other way to the old product, its a vastly different material and so a very different product. So they need to determine the price. If they price the new plastic minis the same as the older, higher quality metal minis, the customers may react negatively. The fans see it as though they're being cheated. A much lower quality product for too high of a price. So the customers leave, the company looses money, and they have to close stores and fire employees until they only have 1 person on staff per store. A purely hypothetical example of course. No company would be that silly and short sighted.  :P

 

 

It's unlikely that FFG will lower the prices -- after all, newer X-Wing ships are slightly more expensive.  However, there are alternatives to paying full MSRP.

 

Oh absolutely. The only way that FFG would probably start lower prices would be if the new line didn't sell well enough AND their margin's had been designed with a good level of profit. They can't cut their own costs without lowering quality (if even an option) so the only way to lower price is to take it out of their share. Companies will do that, but only if it looks like doing so will boost sales enough. Like agreeing to a smaller slice of cake in exchange for enlarging the cake enough that the new slice is bigger in comparison. 

 

 

Ksin, you can't just discount the added cost of pre-painted and pre-assembled models. While some people play games just to model and paint figures, the reality is painting and assembling the models for you adds cost to the product.

Additionally the games you mentioned (Dystopian, Warmachine, Infinity, Mailfaux, etc) don't come with the rules for free. All of those require you to buy a (sometimes multiple) rulebook that costs between $40-60 just to play the game. They also don't include the tokens or tools you need to play the game, and in the cases that they do (Dystopian Wars) it's card stock chit you cut out.

There are alot of hidden costs in those games that are not present in FFGs products.

I can speak to Warmachine best as I played that competitively for a number of years. Just the un-built un-painted models for a single list are going to run you about what you'll spend on your collection of Armada for both sides through Wave 1. And that's if you only want to play that one list over and over.

 

 

A really good point there. These are fairly detailed and well painted minis. And we have no idea what FFG's costs on this product line are. Or to what extent they've spread their operational costs across their other product lines. 

 

I think you've actually touched on one of the real strengths of FFG's Star Wars games. They are all very user friendly. Especially in comparison to similar games by other companies. The rules are simple, well written, and included with the core game (and free to download online). Combined with rather competitive pricing, and a classic IP, they've made X-Wing a game that is attractive to new, casual and competitive players. I worry that the initial gateway cost on Armada is high enough to limit growth though. 

Edited by Thenightgaunt

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In reality, I've played 1 game so far and I think there might be too many fighters in the box. If some of them had been left out and the price $10+ cheaper I would have been just as happy.

 

now we're just picking nits <_<

 

Agreed.  I had my first game yesterday (a solo), and I wished that I had had more TIE Fighters after the Rebel X-Wings chewed through them.

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The way I think about it, you'll need fewer ships in a typical Armada list than you require for an X-Wing list. I used to buy typically four of every starfighter to have complete flight groups, but I think for Armada I'll stop at 2, pushing to 3 only for exceptions (like CR-90 swarms). I honestly don't see the need to fly more than two Victories now that the Imperial is a thing. A list idea is one Imperial, two Victories (expansion + core), two Gladiators/Raiders and fighters. A satisfying list and not going beyond two of what I would require (and only one ISD).

 

But if you want enough cards, not proxies, you'll still end up with ships you'll not want.  And these ships will be at a premium compared to X-Wing.  Currently do you get more than one Engineering Team in the Core?  How many ships might use this card at one time if you had to supply the components for both sides?

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But if you want enough cards, not proxies, you'll still end up with ships you'll not want.  And these ships will be at a premium compared to X-Wing.

That could be an issue. Take Enhanced Armament for example or Expanded Hanger Bay. There's zero chance I'd ever buy a 2nd or 3rd core set for those cards. But if I want 2 or 3 of them that's what I have to do.

It's one thing in X-wing to buy a Starviper to get Autothrusters, it's another to buy a 2nd ISD just for the sake of a few upgrade cards.

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But if you want enough cards, not proxies, you'll still end up with ships you'll not want.  And these ships will be at a premium compared to X-Wing.

That could be an issue. Take Enhanced Armament for example or Expanded Hanger Bay. There's zero chance I'd ever buy a 2nd or 3rd core set for those cards. But if I want 2 or 3 of them that's what I have to do.

It's one thing in X-wing to buy a Starviper to get Autothrusters, it's another to buy a 2nd ISD just for the sake of a few upgrade cards.

 

 

or a Raider to get your Tie/x1s :P

 

 

This was a "problem" in X-wing (insofar as it only influences official, competitive events) and will continue into Armada, but not nearly as badly (possibly to offset the increased prices).

 

FFG is doing a better job of including upgrades that are actually relevant to the ship it comes (including titles for every ship, which are ship specific) with and a lot of the core upgrades are making additional appearances in wave 1 expansions, going by what was spoiled (which leaves a lot of room for the CR90 and Neb expansions cause they got **** all spoiled)

 

The Victory packs another Gunnery Team, Defensive Liason, XX-9, overload pulse, and hangers

 

THe AF brings more counter measures, gunnery, weapon's liason, XX-9 (Again), and EA

 

The Gladiator packs another weapon's liason and nav team

 

not a comprehensive list, just some examples.

 

From what I can tell (and what was spoiled), Rebels don't have a way to get at engine tech and Empire doesn't have one to get to EA.

Edited by ficklegreendice

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with and a lot of the core upgrades are making additional appearances in wave 1 expansions

Maybe that will cover it then. I know with just the core set (which I know isn't the best thing to judge the game on.) that there's a number of upgrades I wish I had more of. Basic generic stuff like expanded Hanger Bay or the Liaisons. But if there's a number of those coming in the expansion then perhaps this won't be as big of an issue as it seemed.

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I never worry about having multiples of a card. The way we play is if you pay the points, then you have as many iterations of a card as you paid points for. So for instance if I pay the points for overload pulse on three ships, I just make sure my opponent knows that my overload pulse card applies to those three ships. When possible, I'll place the card in such a manner to make it clear (for instance between the ship card of two ships that have the same upgrade).

 

We've never had it be an issue.

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In reality, I've played 1 game so far and I think there might be too many fighters in the box. If some of them had been left out and the price $10+ cheaper I would have been just as happy.

 

now we're just picking nits <_<

 

Agreed.  I had my first game yesterday (a solo), and I wished that I had had more TIE Fighters after the Rebel X-Wings chewed through them.

 

With my 2 core sets my 10 ties and Howl runner have been DEVASTATING! it takes about 3 tie attacks without Howrunner and as low as 2 with to take down a X-wing. I have found that with 2 VSD's if I start them at 0 speed in a corner and not moving for a round or 2 building up tokens I can draw the rebels in. It may be a bad idea but I love being second player. . . 

 

This is so worth the initial cost. 

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But if you want enough cards, not proxies, you'll still end up with ships you'll not want.  And these ships will be at a premium compared to X-Wing.

That could be an issue. Take Enhanced Armament for example or Expanded Hanger Bay. There's zero chance I'd ever buy a 2nd or 3rd core set for those cards. But if I want 2 or 3 of them that's what I have to do.

It's one thing in X-wing to buy a Starviper to get Autothrusters, it's another to buy a 2nd ISD just for the sake of a few upgrade cards.

 

 

Okay then... An off topic question.  Between the expansions you don't want to purchase for that upgrade and the fiddlyness of having to touch the ships often without moving them...

 

Would this game have been a bit better with something along the lines of an SSD when you can check or at least list the upgrade and it's benefits?  You could mark damage there and have tracks for tokens?

 

I sheet per ship solves two problems.

Edited by Ken at Sunrise

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I've been a bit disappointed with the Core set so far. The rules are great but I just don't feel like I'm getting what I paid for, if that makes sense? The box is surprisingly empty, and coupled with the really average paint jobs on the two Rebel ships I'm just not seeing how it's worth three times as much as an X-Wing Core set?

 

And I managed to pick it up for just under $100 in Australia. Considering it's retailing at $160 over here, I just don't know if I would have picked it up as a casual purchase in a local games store.

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Well first, it isn't worth 3 times the X-wing Core Set. It's not priced as such.

Additionally the VSD is a larger model itself then the 3 in X-wings Core. You also have more components in regards to command dials, upgrades, objectives, etc. You have 13 bases and stands instead of 3. The Squadrons themselves as well.

The Armada Core also looks to be a more substantial percentage of what you'd field in a standard game compared to X-wing as well.

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Well first, it isn't worth 3 times the X-wing Core Set. It's not priced as such.

Additionally the VSD is a larger model itself then the 3 in X-wings Core. You also have more components in regards to command dials, upgrades, objectives, etc. You have 13 bases and stands instead of 3. The Squadrons themselves as well.

The Armada Core also looks to be a more substantial percentage of what you'd field in a standard game compared to X-wing as well.

Depending where you look, some places have it listed pretty close to three times as much. $10 - $20 less generally.

 

Is it worth more than X-Wing? Absolutely. As much as it's priced? I don't know.

 

I get the feeling that, like X-Wing, it will be better once Wave 1 is released.

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This might have already been mentioned, but just buy online and you save substantially on the cost. Amazon price is $70 for the core set. I have prime shipping, it was here in 2 days. 

 

Thats a 30% discount off of retail right off the bat, and without a doubt, there will be further deals available as the game grows and is no longer brand new. The listed prices i have seen for wave 1 when it comes out online have equally discounted rates. 

 

There are ways to get the game for less than MSRP. :)

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finding split reviews online for gohastings.com (or hastings retail stores) video game blogs/reviews are saying little to no issues, general reviews are saying issues.

 

armada wave 1 prices arent bad, the VSD is oos though. and core is MSRP.

 

AF Mk II: http://www.gohastings.com/product/TRENDS/Star-Wars-Armada-Assault-Frigate-mark-2/sku/296066728.uts

 

all armada: http://www.gohastings.com/catalog/search_all.cmd?form_state=global-search-form-form&keywords=star+wars+armada&search-button.x=0&search-button.y=0&productType=0&query=&form_state=siteSearchForm&department=AllSearch&departmentName=AllSearch&dynamic=&search=true&source=global&condition=0

 

shop at your own risk, but figured passing it along wouldnt hurt anyone.

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I don't think the Core Set is too terribly overcosted. All we have to do is look at the level of detail that exists with these ships. FFG has done an amazing job at making these ships be as detailed as they are and to me, that helps cover the cost. Just imagine if they half-assed this and the game cost less? There would be screaming that it's not accurate enough. Sure, the paint could be better but that is minor compared to having so much accuracy and detail in the look of each ship.

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finding split reviews online for gohastings.com (or hastings retail stores) video game blogs/reviews are saying little to no issues, general reviews are saying issues.

 

armada wave 1 prices arent bad, the VSD is oos though. and core is MSRP.

 

AF Mk II: http://www.gohastings.com/product/TRENDS/Star-Wars-Armada-Assault-Frigate-mark-2/sku/296066728.uts

 

all armada: http://www.gohastings.com/catalog/search_all.cmd?form_state=global-search-form-form&keywords=star+wars+armada&search-button.x=0&search-button.y=0&productType=0&query=&form_state=siteSearchForm&department=AllSearch&departmentName=AllSearch&dynamic=&search=true&source=global&condition=0

 

shop at your own risk, but figured passing it along wouldnt hurt anyone.

 

have you or anyone else purchased from gohasting before? 

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Still going to say for a Miniature game the buy in for the core set is just fine. I could go into the many other games out there and start adding up what it will cost in the long term to up keep a faction and then compare it to Armada and you will see Armada will be cheaper for a Miniature Wargame.

I have played many of them and I can not stress enough that many of the other games may look cheaper at first but after all the costs for having a complete army painted with the models needed for varied lists it will not be cheap. That is the fact of Wargaming. It is an expensive hobby.

And I am glad that the boosters ships are going to be set at a price that is to me very appealing.

But we are on the Internet and people will complain if someone handed them the game for free. If the Core Set is too much for you I am sorry, maybe getting into a miniature game is not for you because there are not any quality games that are going to be cheaper in the long run. (And looking at the long run is what you have to do, not the first buy in. Other companies have made their buy in set cheap only to have their rule books, expansions and extras building up till the cost is twice the amount than the Armamda Core Set. And that is before you buy another model.)

Edited by Beatty

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