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Rasiel

Gaius Baltar and his once per game ability.

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Hi, I have BSG long time but havent noticed his powerful ability in 3-player game. When he uses it, he has 100% chance to discover who cylon is, and because I think this is the core of the game that reveal a cylon is not that easy, he should have his ability limited in 3-player game. How others play with him ? Isnt that a little too much?

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Baltar's OPG and downside are actually pretty well balanced against each other.  The fewer the players, the more likely it is that HE is the Cylon.  If I know I'm not a Cylon, there is a 3/5 chance that Baltar is.  What a surprise, he just told me that the other guy is the Cylon.

 

Compare that to Helo, who SUCKS 6 or 7 players.  There could well be two jumps before he is on the ship.

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i don't think it's too overpowered because the other players might not believe Gauis.   He might be the cylon himself,  and after all, he has 2 loyalty cards dealt to him at the beginning of the game..

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The thing is ... nobody can believe noone. Only because he has 2 loyalty cards he doesnt have to be a cylon (42% isnt 100%)... and as a human player he know who cylon is, and it is much more difficult for cylon to mess around if there is one player who knows who you are, it is one against one ... the third player know cylon is one or the other but they can simply control cylons actions by then. Without Baltar, EVERY player can only GUESS who cylon is until he reveals himself or do something what convince the others, or do simply something stupid.

In three player game there is no way how can cylon hide ... and because gaius is also always a president in 3 player game, cylon has little chance to avoid being arrested as soon as second part of the game comes ...

 

I choose to play with humans, have a "Boomer" so i stay some time in the brig and convince the last player to trust me :) I got out of brig, arrest Baltar, get rid him of his president title (a lot of skill cards played by both players :) ), but it wasnt enough to win the game (****, half of the deck and no cylon attack !!! WTF ?! :) ). No matter, if gaius wasnt in play i would have a much more options if i wasnt discovered by one of humans so easily.... 

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The upside, or downside depending on the situation is that Baltar will be President at the start of a three player game. If he gets enough cards in his Quorom hand, he can just jail the person he believes to be a cylon. The downside is he could jail the person he is accusing and he be the cylon, but anytime a Cylon is in the start of a three player game, the humans are screwed.

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Periculum said:

The upside, or downside depending on the situation is that Baltar will be President at the start of a three player game. If he gets enough cards in his Quorom hand, he can just jail the person he believes to be a cylon. The downside is he could jail the person he is accusing and he be the cylon, but anytime a Cylon is in the start of a three player game, the humans are screwed.

I was President Baltar in a three-player game once, and didn't get dealt the Cylon card until after the Sleeper Phase. I used my OPG on the Admiral, and used Arrest Order on him next turn. He protested, of course, but the other player bought my story. Next turn, I played an Arrest Order on him, and I danced around Galactica as several "President chooses" and "Admiral chooses" Crisis cards were drawn in a row. It took them three or four rounds to actually get out of the Brig, and by that time the game was all but mine.

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 Well, it's hard to say.  In 5+ player games, a player using Baltar essentially throws his lot in with the person he uses his detector on.  This is not always a good thing; calling a person human can make people think you are both cylons.

Calling a person a cylon depending on the circumstance may cause people to suspect you.

Generally speaking, I almost never use his ability unless other players call for it, if I'm human or cylon.

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awp832 said:

i don't think it's too overpowered because the other players might not believe Gauis.   He might be the cylon himself,  and after all, he has 2 loyalty cards dealt to him at the beginning of the game..

+1

I was Gaius last saturday ; and I was the only Cylon ; and everybody trusted my speech, my acting "numero" and I fooled them all... and we, the Cylons, won ! That is, me on my own ! And guess what : at the LAST jump, we were at 8, on the track, so the last was the final one, and I laughed like crazy, they all looked at me and their face went like "oh my god... it was him all along !" and I went into the FTL control room, taking the Galactica's commands, rolled a dice.... rolled a 4 ! -3 population, we were at 2, the ship arrived on Kobol but I killed everybody ! Aaah, I think you're right, man : Gaius IS powerful. And I love him :)

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My last game as Baltar, I became a Cylon in the Sleeper phase.  I took at look at one of the other players' cards and saw she (the Chief) was a Cylon.  So instead of keeping in secret (someone else was already campaigning hard that I was a Cylon), I told everyone the truth about the cards I just saw - that the Chief was a Cylon.  That started so much chaos that everyone was trying to figure out whether I was lying or telling the truth, and whether I was the Cylon or the Chief was the Cylon.  In the end, it didn't matter - lines were drawn in the crew and everyone was backing a Cylon.  Because of the arguing going on, not much else was happening, and the more arguing that went by, the more convinced people were that the person they were backing was human.

Cylons won that one.  The humans could never get their act together to stop this crazy battle between the Chief and me, despite the fact that we were just trying to pull a massive ruse past them so they paid more attention to that than the dwindling resources.

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Yeah, we had six players.  It wasn't pulled off perfectly - I was trying to signal to the other Cylon that I was on her side, but I wasn't able to do that at any point, so she was convinced I was human the whole time because I outsted her.  But it sure was a fun game!  For me, at least - I think the rest of the players wanted to string me up by the end of it.  I doubt I could pull that off again anytime soon.

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This topic was nearly all about a three player game. That is where his ability gets the fun out of it.

If you are Baltar, and you are not a cylon (he has one loyalty more but it is still "only" 42 percent you will be cylon) you simply use ability and get the cylon in the brig(in 3 player game he is always president). It is not that fun for the cylon when he has only one person left who dont know who is who.

It is the same as you use quorum card with another character to look at one loyalty and say he is the cylon(when you are), but not for Baltar himself, because when he uses his ability and checks all loyalty cards, he 100% knows who cylon is, and he stops spending actions and time for figuring who it is. Cylon has much less options there, and it does not matter if the third player believes baltar or not.

I give here examples how we played skill checks:

A) 1st player reveals crisis card with skill check. Some agreement how to do it with other players.

Baltar is now first, so he gives some cards to skill check, other human player says if I play some cards to this skill check, he would take me into prison... if i would he cant discover who says true.

B) Baltar reveals crisis, i play some cards, human player plays some cards ... and because i played cards to skill check, baltar decides not to play cards, so if i would play something bad, they would know who put it there if destiny deck dont cover me(max 2 bad cards can be there).

C) I reveal crisis card, human player gives some cards, baltar gives some cards, so i cant because human wants to discover if there are no more than 2 bad cards, if Baltar was the cylon. If baltar dont play cards to skill check, I can play, but again it can be only with a risk of revealing myself....

We figured that this is the best strategy for humans and cylon can never do too much harm even if he is amongst humans on galactica. The game is always about convincing others, but in 3 player game, there is no better choice than Baltar and it is no matter which side you will play in game. Even if Baltar is cylon, as the only political leader, he has always president title.

I say in 3 player game-too powerful

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It's got about a 50/50 shot of being useful, which isn't really out of line for OPGs in a 3-player game (which I really think is the weakest form of this game.)

We have players A, Baltar, and C.  Baltar uses his OPG on A.  I'm assuming he's using it post-Sleeper phase for maximum effect.

Here's the ways it could shake out, assuming a rational Baltar (is there such a thing?)

1) A has a "You are a Cylon" card.  Baltar immediately starts shouting about Cylons.  C has no more information than he did before Baltar used his OPG, because C already KNEW that either A or Baltar was a Cylon.  Baltar at this point could use his secret knowledge to try to undermine A, but A is just as likely to be able to convince C that Baltar is actually the evil conniving Cylon.

2) Baltar has the "You are a Cylon" card.  Baltar immediately starts shouting about Cylons.  See 1).

3) C has the "You are a Cylon" card.  Baltar immediately starts shouting about Cylons, but this is actually the situation where the gamestate is changed somewhat - Baltar says "Yeah, A's cool", so now both A and Baltar know for sure that C is the Cylon.  At this point, C should probably reveal before he gets brigged/airlocked...

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antherem said:

3) C has the "You are a Cylon" card.  Baltar immediately starts shouting about Cylons, but this is actually the situation where the gamestate is changed somewhat - Baltar says "Yeah, A's cool", so now both A and Baltar know for sure that C is the Cylon.  At this point, C should probably reveal before he gets brigged/airlocked...

Ehm, a still does not know for sure that Baltar is not a cylon or that  C is a cylon. Baltar and C, now have to convince A that they are not a cylon. Rhe risk that Baltar is a cylon is considerably higher that that C is a cylon, and a cylon a president is no ideal. A would probably choose to help brig Baltar. C can choose to help A in brigging Baltar, or can reveal himself, depending on the situation. Either way, Baltar does know who the cylon is, but both A and C have to dicide if the trust him. And if they are a cylon if they want to reveal there status as a cylon before or after Baltar is brigged.

 

We have this problem, and as soon as the game starts we try to brig Baltar, as he is most likely to be a cylon and he is the president. Something we do not to combine. 

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Locutus Zero said:

Compare that to Helo, who SUCKS 6 or 7 players.  There could well be two jumps before he is on the ship.

So?  You still get your cards.  You still get a crisis, where you can use your reroll.  You still get to participate in skill checks.  Finally, nothing prevents you from discussing the situation at hand with the rest of the players.

You only lose a single action, and you can't be the target of EOs.

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Baltar is more powerful in a 3 player game IMO.

B/C you are the President, you have more chances to look at a human player's loyalty hand. Try to do this before the sleeper phase on any of the two players.

Afterwards, wait for the sleeper phase and look at the other player's entire hand with your ability. Assuming you are not the cylon, you will know for sure who it is. Additionally... you took the time to look at both player's cards building trust. If you manage to be as sincere as possible with your findings, the person that isn't the Cylon should hopefully be releaved enough that they were not accused to believe your findings.

What makes this strategy even better if the first person you looked at happened to have the "You are a Cylon" card. Because there's only one Cylon in a 3 player game, that person knows that you know and can't just come out and say, Baltar's the Cylon! Since you don't accuse him right away, he can't just counter argue that you are a Cylon, he has no choice but to play along as a human since you could easily expose him as the cause of any problems that may be caused by him.

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Most of our games are with three players.  To make things more interesting, we add an extra "You Are Not a Cylon" card to the loyalty deck.  This keeps a little more mystery surrounding the Cylon's identity, as there may not be one at all.  Of course, there will be a Cylon the vast majority of the time using this method, but the doubt raised by the possibility that there isn't one removes any certainty associated with game elements such as Baltar's ability.  It also makes low-key Cylon play more fun because you may be able to convince the others that the unfortunate things that are happening are just bad luck.

The other week we had a particularly nasty game where we were just getting pounded by repeated Cylon attacks.  We just barely won, and everyone was quite relieved that there was no Cylon.  Given the circumstances, it would have been a really easy victory for him or her if there was one.

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