Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
DagobahDave

So it's a week later. What do you think about the game now?

75 posts in this topic

 

kristof65 said:

Thanks to the D&D 3e and 4e fiasco, I'm finally seeing a lot more "It's gotta be D&D or nothing" players finally willing to try WFRP.  

 

Consider me one of those people.  4e sucks the sweat off of a pidgeon cloaca.

I just want to play..what sucks is starting a group too often requires sucking up to play 4e and then hijacking players to play WFRP.  I hope the new edition will change at least some of that..but it depends on the players.  When 2e came out, from what I can see on the BI site, there was a lot of enthusiasm..then 4 short years later and people don't even know what WFRP is and there's not one, single game playing at GenCon 2009 (probably because people heard 3E was coming out?  or was it for another reason?)  Hopefully if 2E and 3E players can continue to GROW WFRP, that will improve WFRP's standing against inferior games (like D&D).

 

jh

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Emirikol said:

 Hopefully if 2E and 3E players can continue to GROW WFRP, that will improve WFRP's standing against inferior games (like D&D).

IMO, one of WFRP's biggest weaknesses in competing with other RPGs is the Warhammer setting itself. Not that the Warhammer setting isn't great, but way too many people are under the impression it's the only setting you can play WFRP in.  Which just ain't true.  In fact, out of the 6 or 7 WFRP campaigns I've played or run, only a couple were actually set in the Warhammer World.

I use WFRP 2e for my Iskitaan campaign, which is decidely NOT Warhammer (http://iskitaan.heismann.net if you're interested in checking it out)

I actually have fewer house rules and character restrictions running my Iskitaan campaign with WFRP (either 1e or 2e) than I ever had to use with AD&D or D&D 3e.

Frankly, I'd love to see the WFRP 2e rules stripped down to a non-setting specific core, and released as an OGL product.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting concept and true.  Limiting to "one world" and saying that the product is only good in "one world" is a negative to growth. 

 

A while back, I posted on RPG.net the question of whether or not WFRP2 could be run in the Forgotten Realms.   Man, people came out of the woodwork to say how it could never be done.  ;)   I think it would be fun to try it out (and just to blaspheme the FR setting..but that's just the protagonist in me...

 

jh

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Was angry at first, then decided I didnt care, but everyone else still talked about it, so now Im angry again.

Time for me to take up a masked avenger identity and strike my vengeance on any copy of WFRP3E I see, and leave behind a calling card with the web address for the WFRP2E PDFs on it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First I´d like to thank FFG for the presentation vid´s. It kinda changed my mind a bit. The frist thing I saw in the news was these character sheets and cards and litterarily my first thought was "Come on?!" Though I must say, after watching the vids, that they introduced some cool mechanics. But dice without numbers.... that´s too much to handle at once :D

I like the idea of the party sheet and the connected mechanics, as well as the recklesness track. Maybe, a kind of upgrade pack for the 2nd Edition which includes the recklesness meter and the party sheet and of course some adjusted rules.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 I will attempt, as much as possible, to be as calm and level with my opinions of the new game, even though I haven't seen it yet, I have kept as close an eye on it as is possible. 

I have been GM'ing WHFRP for about four years now since it's initial release by black industries and have followed it with a certain degree of trepidation over it's various bumps and setbacks. I was very enthusiastic when it and Dark Heresy were purchased by FFG, since BI seemed to be a little too uninterested in it.

 

Over the past few months, with the great enthusiasm for DH that has arisen, I have found myself becoming more drawn towards WHFRP, mostly for its background and the grim, medieval twist to it. I've attempted to set up a resource site for WHFRP, with my own home-brew rules, as well as doing a good bit of writing for my university forum on my favourite NPC's. I feel I have really engaged with WHFRP and have gained as much as I can from the system, which at times can be unforgiving for a GM. 

The new system seems to tend to some of my needs, but it still seems as if some of my other concerns are being left out in the cold. I will review, breifly.

 

1. I enjoyed messing with the WHFRP mechanic to make it a little more technical and try and get the PC's thinking. A situation where they role to attack, the enemy roles to parry, repeat ad naseum, is something I have always tried to avoid. Combat is a major part of my games and I try to make it as interesting as possible, but sometimes it slows down quit easily. What FFG seems to be doing in that respect is interesting and appeals to me. 

2. The dice mechanic seems a little intimidating, I haven't really experienced anything like this before and since I have yet to experience it, I can't really expand further on it. I am a little worried, though the design seems to be based on incorporating as much of the random elements of chance into it, I fear it may be too technical or perhaps takes the descriptive element away from the GM. 

3. I hear your making critical hits something that can occur from the first round of combat, well done that man. 

4. I am concerned over the career and talent system. How heroic are your heroes? One of the more enjoyable facets of my gaming experience was that monsters, regardless of the career level of the PC's, always posed a significant danger of death. How dangerous is combat? Is damage as long lasting and debilitating as before? I would frequently be able to wear down my PC's due to a lack of healing spells and other such items, which I felt was a great since it added a fantastic element of tension. 

5. In a similar vain, another element I really enjoyed about WHFRP was the often crushing effects of exposure to chaos. Can I still mutate and drive my PC's insane? How easy is it? I didn't find this being related to in the videos or else were to my satisfaction and I feel this important element of the game has been played down.

6. Personal preference leads me to hate elves, any race that spends it's time lamenting their decline and ignoring the possible, highly enjoyable solution to their low birth rate deserves to go the way of the dodo. Adding twice as many of them causes me to raise an eyebrow.

7. What is my role now as GM? This is of major concern to me, since I rarely find anyone with the cahungas to step up and assume my (in)glorious mantle. The provision of tables, cards, books and in depth rule sets seems to put power very firmly in the hands of the players, as well as increasing concerns that the game now resembles more of a board game than an RPG. As GM, how much control do I have over combat and the options available to the players? 

8. In almost complete opposition to my first statement, while making combat more technical does increase the enjoyment of it, how much does it take away from the other actions that make an RPG an RPG and not just a cardboard version of a computer game? I see some references to social actions, but how important are these actions and others, that make RPG's the immersive experience they are, where thinking on the fly can get one out of a tight spot. I have often found that sometimes the best system is no system at all. Ovrcomplication is another significant worry of mine.

9. Finally, all those different coloured dice look like they will get lost. 

 

That's the extent of my "rant", if people care to answer, that would be great. As you can see, I have alot of great concerns over this game. I will more than likely purchase the full set, but it remains to be seen how I will play afterwards.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Emirikol said:

A while back, I posted on RPG.net the question of whether or not WFRP2 could be run in the Forgotten Realms.   Man, people came out of the woodwork to say how it could never be done.  ;)   I think it would be fun to try it out (and just to blaspheme the FR setting..but that's just the protagonist in me...

Rpg.net has its own culture that can be quite detached from the Roleplaying mainstream. To be fair, any forum does. I know of at least one long-running Greyhawk campaign run under WFRP1 rules, so I do not see why Forgotten Realms could not be, although it would be quite some work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can;t wait for this system and will buy it day one even with the jacked up adventurers tooklit....so essentially base system will be 130+ Bucks....who are you kidding you all are going to  get the toolkit as well with an extra set of dice, 10 new careers + pet rules :)  come on

I have been waiting a long time for a new innovative resource management aspect added to RPG.s  Im 30 somethings that started with DND and WHFRPG in grade/school/highschool and moved to board games when i started college due to time.  RPG s just take too long and arent as satisfying to me as boardgames.  I really love how RPG;s are now moving toward the same thing.  DnD tried it and failed (IMHO) and i am excited to see what FFG does with the whole boardgame meets RPG....can't wait!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nostromo said:

 

I have been waiting a long time for a new innovative resource management aspect added to RPG.s  Im 30 somethings that started with DND and WHFRPG in grade/school/highschool and moved to board games when i started college due to time.  RPG s just take too long and arent as satisfying to me as boardgames.  I really love how RPG;s are now moving toward the same thing.  DnD tried it and failed (IMHO) and i am excited to see what FFG does with the whole boardgame meets RPG....can't wait!!!

I'm hearing you!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Crazy Aido said:

What is my role now as GM? This is of major concern to me, since I rarely find anyone with the cahungas to step up and assume my (in)glorious mantle. The provision of tables, cards, books and in depth rule sets seems to put power very firmly in the hands of the players, as well as increasing concerns that the game now resembles more of a board game than an RPG. As GM, how much control do I have over combat and the options available to the players?

 

You might feel better about this after reading the "What is Roleplaying?" section here:

www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_minisite_sec.asp

Especially this part:

"The GM presents the stories and situations, provides the setting and its denizens, and adjudicates the rules. The other players take on the roles of the characters, around which the action primarily revolves. These characters are known as the Player Characters (PCs). They describe their intentions and actions to the GM, who then decides how their actions affect the plot."

I'll go back to lurking now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the dice are brilliant.  yeah, there is a lot to look at.  but they seem to provide more of a story than just numerical dice.  i think that we can safely say that this is a true RPG that's focus is roleplaying.  I have played the new D&D and my major gripe about it is that everybody has a power and that I can't picture what is going on.  If somebody does " cat strike", or "memory hole", or "eye of doom." I can't picture whats going on.  its just a roll of the dice, a hit or a miss, and a roll of damage, maybe some one moves here and there.  It seems like this symbol dice system invites the oppurtunity to describe things.  the oppurtunity to say, okay what just happened?  why did I fail?  why did I succeed?  It brings a whole new dimension to things.

I'm old school.  I remember when you rolled up a magic user with a 12 intelligence, 2 hit points, a dagger, and one magic missile spell.  We  played the game.  we developed the character. we roleplayed.  If we were lucky enough to make it to 3rd level we felt like gods. 

Anyway, I can't wait to break it open and play. 

I

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just finished watching the videos and all I can say is I saw a lot of things to limit the use of the imagination and things to complicate the rules more.

 

Specialty dice. Oh look, what do those dice mean with that symbol in this situation?

Cards. As you buy expansions you can just shuffle the new cards into the deck (so we're adding more conditions and such with each expansion? Rules Bloat much?)

Career Cards (they match up with your character sheet so you lay everything out infront of you, and you have these talent cards that you place here and here when your using them. How much table space do I need for this?)

Group Character Sheet. So now my troll slayer and his elf can't just decided to finish it when we want, we have to wait for an 'event' to trigger?

 

 

I'm less interested now then I was.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

lordmalachdrim said:

Group Character Sheet. So now my troll slayer and his elf can't just decided to finish it when we want, we have to wait for an 'event' to trigger?

 

 

I'm less interested now then I was.

 

 

Not to be annoying, but the tension meter usage can be easly avoided by the GM if he does not like it... imho

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DagobahDave said:

You might feel better about this after reading the "What is Roleplaying?" section here:

www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_minisite_sec.asp

Especially this part:

"The GM presents the stories and situations, provides the setting and its denizens, and adjudicates the rules. The other players take on the roles of the characters, around which the action primarily revolves. These characters are known as the Player Characters (PCs). They describe their intentions and actions to the GM, who then decides how their actions affect the plot."

I'll go back to lurking now.

If I poke you will you come out and play with me?

 

I dunno, something still seems missing. They're really not bigging up the role of GM. It's an important enough job and I'd like to see it's context within WHFRP expanded on more. I see myself as a storyteller, with a pretty rough plot that the PC's have managed to fall into. 

Improving on what "happens" with each role is a well thought out mechanic, but I still have to with hold judgement on it until I see it in action.

Dreary Angel has a point. Is the game leaving too much to the mechanic and not the players?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Crazy Aido said:

Dreary Angel has a point. Is the game leaving too much to the mechanic and not the players?

Well, I think some of the mechanics are intended more for newcomers in the RPG experience (the first times making a party stick together and get along as they should is a pain where the sun don't shine) but I also hope these things can be decided not to be used in experienced patries...

About the dices, I would say they are interesting, and they can be effectively a good help for both players and the GM to describe what's going on. As a GM if one of my players says they're going to do something very very carefully and they fail I would let them give it a second try, but times has obviously passed... With this system even if an action succede it can take more time, and you can see it just on that one roll, and if it fails no other roll is needed, since (taking again the above example) you already rolled for a carefull approach, but you simply failed...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Today I watched all the videos on it from the Gencon. There were a few moments where I was thinking wow that's weird...then after more explanation I can see what they were going for and it made sense. I think this looks to be a great system that will be very accessible to new players and/or those of us without much time on our hands. I see many innovative mechanics that I think I like. Some I may ignore from time to time but they're there if I need to use them.

I have WHFRP2 and while it is a good system there were certain mechanics that just drove me nuts. I'm all for the new system.

Anyways, I will state that I do feel for those people that heavily invested in the prior system(I have 100 or so 3.5DND books). However, nothing is stopping you from playing it. Further dead systems are the perfect time to change everything you have a problem with mechanics wise with a given game.

I do think that PR wise FFG sort of messed up as people don't seem too happy. Perhaps releasing a few more books for that line would go a long way in appeasing loyal customers. Or would it be possible to release most or all of the books they had been working on for WHFRP2 for free as PDF's? Possibly unfinished or really **** cheap. Possibly not but I just like throwing ideas out there.

gran_risa.gif...wtf...yahoo emotes?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"As the Game Master, you will make the lands of the Old World real as you craft the story, the people, creatures, and the mysteries the other players will encounter during their adventures."

That's on the same page I linked to earlier. Make of it what you will.

You did not see me. I was never here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

lordmalachdrim said:

Just finished watching the videos and all I can say is I saw a lot of things to limit the use of the imagination and things to complicate the rules more.

 

Specialty dice. Oh look, what do those dice mean with that symbol in this situation?

Cards. As you buy expansions you can just shuffle the new cards into the deck (so we're adding more conditions and such with each expansion? Rules Bloat much?)

Career Cards (they match up with your character sheet so you lay everything out infront of you, and you have these talent cards that you place here and here when your using them. How much table space do I need for this?)

Group Character Sheet. So now my troll slayer and his elf can't just decided to finish it when we want, we have to wait for an 'event' to trigger?

  

To be honest, I find these items redundant.  RPGs have worked just as books with players having character sheets, so it appears that 3E is relying on something which is not necessary.  It seems a gimmick.

I don't find the reasoning that in the current age of the MMO and other video games that roleplaying has to evolve.  Dark Heresy just won several awards and is selling well, same for D&D 4E.  If people are going to prefer to load up a game and receive instant gratification having 3E presented this new way is not going to pull them away from PCs or consoles.  Or other boardgames for that matter.

Third, the comment that was made by the developer about bringing the story back to gaming (I'm probably in error here, as I am not sure exactly if that is correct), or the focus back to stories, is odd.  I do not believe that there has ever been an issue with that.

So it's a week later. What do you think about the game now?  My answer is that I did not like the news, then became interested, and now I am not looking forward to 3E again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At a non-gaming get-together last night I whipped out the old laptop and let my friends (players) watch the seminar vids and read the release notes. Other than stating "No, it's not a boardgame" four times, I kept mum, presenting a neutral, smiling attitude.

 

It was 0-7 against.

 

It won't detail their multiple (mild) objections as they were just variations of what has been written in this forum and on StS. The pricetag brought out the most, wtf! reactions.

 

I will say that inwardly I was pleased they agreed with me (without knowing my position) the game would slow down even further using the new (socket/dice) system.

 

It is highly improbably I will be purchasing a (new) copy of this edition.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have gone from initially iffy, to excited, and now to a mix of disappointed and outraged. What I was able to stomach watching of the video seminar makes me very, very glad I still have my 2e books. I have no issues with the mechanics--at least, none that I am aware of. I didn't get that far. I heard "We're micro-managing the setting so you have to play a certain way, butchering the whole point of Athel Loren, and pretending Dwarfs only come from one place." Then I turned off the video.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I've had 24 hours or so to consider this. Talked to a friend about it. He was shocked, and unhappy as well.  But his parting comment was like mine - "Oh well, we played 1e for years without support, this won't be any different for 2e."

He also reminded me that we bought an RPG based on dice w/ symbols years ago  (neither of us could remember the name, though) , tried it once, didn't like the stupid dice,  threw it out.  That system couldn't have cost more than $20. After our experience with that, no way either of us are willing to shell out $100 to try out  another one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0