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DagobahDave

Awesome posting from RPGnet about WFRP3 - don't miss this!

116 posts in this topic

A poster named Erifnogard posted this at RPGnet. I'm passing this along because it sounds awesome!

 

ERIFNOGARD: Ok, some highlights from the seminar at Gen Conn. Not too detailed as I'm posting from my phone.

One: there is nothing stopping you from running any size group you want from the core box. The Adventure Pack adds some additional career cards and some spare dice but the core comes with around 30 career cards as it is. Sure you might not have the nifty storage box for more than 3 characters, but just use an envelope or note what cards you need to pull next time. Additionally you could just transfer the info from the cards to your character sheet.

Two: they are doing some really cool stuff with the cards, they're not just there for the heck of it. The cards actually get rid of the need for a lot of the charts. For example when you take a wound you pull a wound card and place it face down in front of you. If at some point you are critted, just flip your top wound card over and there is the crit. Insanity is also handled like this with an Insanity deck.

Three: The party has a character sheet! Their is a fortune pool for the party and a party tension tracker that has some fatigue effects as party tension ratchets up in play. This stress is added based purely on the GMs observation of the party's roleplaying. Also characters can tag some of their abilities to the party for the benefit of all.

Four: every character has a "Stance" track with a conservative side and a reckless side to it that affects all their abilities and spells that they use based on which side of the track they are currently choosing to be on (and yes you can change which stance you are in often - usually every round). Different careers have different amounts of conservative vs reckless on their track and how far out on on one side or the other you currently are will have a greater affect on how things work out. It should be noted that all abilities and all spells have both a conservative and an aggressive version which have their own bnefits and drawbacks and they are handily summarized on opposite sides of their cards.

Five: The dice are integral to the whole system. You have dice for your ability. You swap some of those out for dice that represent your aggressive or conservative stance. Instead of modifiers for circumstances or tactics you add fortune or misfortune dice. There are a few other types that account for some other factors. Making the dice pools is going to be incredibly easy as you form your initial pool by reading right off the character sheet and the fortune/misfortune dice are given out by the gm as he  describes the circumstances and you describe what you are doing and any tactics.

Six: This is not either a board game or a miniature game and does not require either a map or miniatures any more than current WFRP does.

Seven: The reason the careers are on cards is so that as more careers are added you just slip them in the career deck and have them all in one place rather than scattered over multiple books and supplements. Ditto for ability cards and spell cards.

Eight: Character generation - first you choose your race, then you draw three career cards and choose one. Or if you want to play hardcore you draw only one career and suck it up. Or (if you are a hippy, tree hugging elf - my words not theirs) you could just choose a career. Careers function very much like now with advances and skills. If you choose to leave your career without 'completing' it (i.e. take a certain number of your advances and skills) then you don't keep your career's special bonus. If you do complete your career you keep the special from your career. For the ratcatcher this would be the small but vicious dog (who apparently has his own abilities and is essentially your little, and vicious, minion). Note that you can still choose to buy skills not in your current career for a premium with gm approval.

I'll add more if I can remember it.

 

 

 

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There's so much encouraging news in there, I don't know where to start. I guess the thing I like the most is this:

The reason the careers are on cards is so that as more careers are added you just slip them in the career deck and have them all in one place rather than scattered over multiple books and supplements. Ditto for ability cards and spell cards.

That's about the best argument for using portable cards that can be made. You won't ever need a Career Compendium, Spell Compendium, Combat Compendium. I think it shows a real understanding of the fans' interests and how they use their game materials.

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All of this sounds really cool.

I'm looking forward to the release.

I just hope they will not have simplified the skill system (less skills to choose from) or the career system (less careers to choose from).

I know there is only 30 careers to start with, but I guess their plan is to dish out 10 new careers or so per supplement, thus forcing us to buy them.

Just joking here with the italics, but still, it's good business for them and painful shelling out of hard earned cash for us.

Puts pressure on the game itself... if its that good, I'm willing to invest in FFG. Maybe buy stock, even... :) 

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This is horrible news! What if i have 2 players who wan't to play the same class? Or an entire party! And a bloody deck where i draw cards from? And you say this is NOT a board game? Then it is a card game, for it has cards. Argue that all you want. 

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I agree with you on the positive points there Dagobah Dave. The charts on cards thing is really neat, but I'm not sure we needed a whole new edition to add something like that. 

My least favorite aspect are the special dice. I like my own dice, gamers usually like their own dice as well. 

All in all, it sounds positive. Not enough to make me want to switch from 2E yet though. The "tension" thing doesn't really sound appealing to me as of yet. 

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Captin' said:

This is horrible news! What if i have 2 players who wan't to play the same class? Or an entire party! And a bloody deck where i draw cards from? And you say this is NOT a board game? Then it is a card game, for it has cards. Argue that all you want. 

 

You make a valid point about the multiple cards, though I would imagine the card is merely a reference and two players could reference the card. Not idea, admititley. 

I can even see the value in drawing a card instead of referencing a chart. It's faster and the player is more involved. 

I'm not saying I'll move to WFRP 3, but I'm not near as sour on it as I was. 

 

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I really like what I'm hearing about this game so far.

I don't get people that managed to go berserk about it without waiting for even a tiniest piece of info about it... 

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Another thing that bothers me is the Insanity deck. Before they had pages of information about insanities to describe in detail what hapened to the character. And if the DM didn't think they fit he'd make up his own. Is this what makes 3rd edition better at PR? I think not! How are they going to contain all that information on one random card! Insanities can NOT be randomized!

And this stance thing? Forcing gamers to do things in game is NOT Roleplaying. Quite the opposite.

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Chaos85 said:

I really like what I'm hearing about this game so far.

I don't get people that managed to go berserk about it without waiting for even a tiniest piece of info about it... 

Now i have it and now i am REALLY starting to berserk!

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Captin' said:

Another thing that bothers me is the Insanity deck. Before they had pages of information about insanities to describe in detail what hapened to the character. And if the DM didn't think they fit he'd make up his own. Is this what makes 3rd edition better at PR? I think not! How are they going to contain all that information on one random card! Insanities can NOT be randomized!

And this stance thing? Forcing gamers to do things in game is NOT Roleplaying. Quite the opposite.

 

Well, maybe there aren't going to contain it on one card? Perhaps the card just gives you the general information you need and there is more information in the rulebook? No idea. 

I'm not sold on the Stance either.

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Hey! I found another thing to complain about! Theese boxes. We need boxes to keep our characters in? This is UNBELIEVABLY unpractical! In 2nd i only needed 2 sheets of paper. So if we want to play anywhere else we need to carry around these BOXES? AAARGH!!!

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This sounds pretty sweet to my ears...

Thinking about stances: isn't it more or less the same as doing something in defensive stance for the conservative option? I mean, it's more or less the same we've always done, choosing round by round if we want to be more aggressive or to save up for more difensive possibilities...

Now we just have different things the same spell-attack can do based on how we w<nt to react to the threat we encounter...

Rhis is just my way to see it, obviously...

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Captin' said:

 

This is horrible news! What if i have 2 players who wan't to play the same class? Or an entire party! And a bloody deck where i draw cards from? And you say this is NOT a board game? Then it is a card game, for it has cards. Argue that all you want. 

 

 

By that reasoning, every roleplaying game that uses dice, is a "dice game" like yahtzy. Does that mean that playing an RPG is the same thing as playing yahtzy? Consider your "point" argued and beat up horribly...

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Dreary_Angel said:

This sounds pretty sweet to my ears...

Thinking about stances: isn't it more or less the same as doing something in defensive stance for the conservative option? I mean, it's more or less the same we've always done, choosing round by round if we want to be more aggressive or to save up for more difensive possibilities...

Now we just have different things the same spell-attack can do based on how we w<nt to react to the threat we encounter...

Rhis is just my way to see it, obviously...

As i see it, if i read the text right, it is something more like the more you attack, the more into it you get and must keep attacking in some kind of a frenzy.

This would be logical. But it is not helping RP, it is forcing it. RP is to feel what your character would do, not being forced to do it.

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Looks all fine and dandy to me.  Not sure I get the "party tension" bit though.  I suppose the "stance" of being more or less reckless during an attack gives a player the chance to have some different outcomes...hmm.  We'll see I guess.  As soon as we can see three character cards/sheets and an "opponent" card for combat, I'd be ready to put together an encounter and try it out.

 

As for the roleplaying, Im with the other poster.  LESS IS MORE when it comes to skill checks.  Nit-picking about a character's 45 or 47 intelligence on a knowledge check seems to be quite the D&Dism to me so if they could get away from that and more into benefits for player description, I'd be happy.

 I see the original post appeared here:  forum.rpg.net/showthread.php

jh

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Captin' said:

Hey! I found another thing to complain about! Theese boxes. We need boxes to keep our characters in? This is UNBELIEVABLY unpractical! In 2nd i only needed 2 sheets of paper. So if we want to play anywhere else we need to carry around these BOXES? AAARGH!!!

Captin' said:

Hey! I found another thing to complain about! Theese boxes. We need boxes to keep our characters in? This is UNBELIEVABLY unpractical! In 2nd i only needed 2 sheets of paper. So if we want to play anywhere else we need to carry around these BOXES? AAARGH!!!

 

ok, please, tell me this was just sarcastic...

i mean supposely when you go around to play with 2ed you take a bag or a backpack right?

with 3ed nothing stops you from leaving home all the carreer cards and other stuff you do not need, and i really don't think the stuff you'll have to take with you will take more space than all the books and other stuff you already have to carry with 2ed...

 

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Today I've found new reasons to mock 4th edition D&D and good news about 3rd edition WFRP.

*tents fingers, smiles evil GM smile*

 

Excellent.

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i was planning on buying it ni matter what, just for the fact that im a warhammer fan/collector, these thing just make it sound sooo much better than the initial news.

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Dreary_Angel said:

Captin' said:

 

Hey! I found another thing to complain about! Theese boxes. We need boxes to keep our characters in? This is UNBELIEVABLY unpractical! In 2nd i only needed 2 sheets of paper. So if we want to play anywhere else we need to carry around these BOXES? AAARGH!!!

 

 

Captin' said:

 

Hey! I found another thing to complain about! Theese boxes. We need boxes to keep our characters in? This is UNBELIEVABLY unpractical! In 2nd i only needed 2 sheets of paper. So if we want to play anywhere else we need to carry around these BOXES? AAARGH!!!

 

 

 

ok, please, tell me this was just sarcastic...

i mean supposely when you go around to play with 2ed you take a bag or a backpack right?

with 3ed nothing stops you from leaving home all the carreer cards and other stuff you do not need, and i really don't think the stuff you'll have to take with you will take more space than all the books and other stuff you already have to carry with 2ed...

 

Are YOU being sarcastic? All you need to carry around in 2nd edition is a book, a few peces of paper, a pen and some dice. Other books are optional, and that's all there is. A giant box full of cards is QUITE a bit more to carry around.

And not to mention that you could never play this game without a table. My party doesn't have a table within reach at all times, and this is forcing all the players to be gathered around one with this "party pool" and whatever.

 

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DagobahDave said:

Dreary_Angel said:

 

ok, please, tell me this was just sarcastic.

 

 

 

It's denial, is what it is. I wish I were kidding.

Denying what?

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DagobahDave said:

Captin' said:

 

 

Denying what?

 

 

Now we've got you thinkin'. ;)

No, that is why i asked. So i didn't have to.

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Captin' said:

Dreary_Angel said:

 

Captin' said:

 

Hey! I found another thing to complain about! Theese boxes. We need boxes to keep our characters in? This is UNBELIEVABLY unpractical! In 2nd i only needed 2 sheets of paper. So if we want to play anywhere else we need to carry around these BOXES? AAARGH!!!

 

 

Captin' said:

 

Hey! I found another thing to complain about! Theese boxes. We need boxes to keep our characters in? This is UNBELIEVABLY unpractical! In 2nd i only needed 2 sheets of paper. So if we want to play anywhere else we need to carry around these BOXES? AAARGH!!!

 

 

 

ok, please, tell me this was just sarcastic...

i mean supposely when you go around to play with 2ed you take a bag or a backpack right?

with 3ed nothing stops you from leaving home all the carreer cards and other stuff you do not need, and i really don't think the stuff you'll have to take with you will take more space than all the books and other stuff you already have to carry with 2ed...

 

 

 

Are YOU being sarcastic? All you need to carry around in 2nd edition is a book, a few peces of paper, a pen and some dice. Other books are optional, and that's all there is. A giant box full of cards is QUITE a bit more to carry around.

And not to mention that you could never play this game without a table. My party doesn't have a table within reach at all times, and this is forcing all the players to be gathered around one with this "party pool" and whatever.

 

Captin' said:

Dreary_Angel said:

 

Captin' said:

 

Hey! I found another thing to complain about! Theese boxes. We need boxes to keep our characters in? This is UNBELIEVABLY unpractical! In 2nd i only needed 2 sheets of paper. So if we want to play anywhere else we need to carry around these BOXES? AAARGH!!!

 

 

Captin' said:

 

Hey! I found another thing to complain about! Theese boxes. We need boxes to keep our characters in? This is UNBELIEVABLY unpractical! In 2nd i only needed 2 sheets of paper. So if we want to play anywhere else we need to carry around these BOXES? AAARGH!!!

 

 

 

ok, please, tell me this was just sarcastic...

i mean supposely when you go around to play with 2ed you take a bag or a backpack right?

with 3ed nothing stops you from leaving home all the carreer cards and other stuff you do not need, and i really don't think the stuff you'll have to take with you will take more space than all the books and other stuff you already have to carry with 2ed...

 

 

 

Are YOU being sarcastic? All you need to carry around in 2nd edition is a book, a few peces of paper, a pen and some dice. Other books are optional, and that's all there is. A giant box full of cards is QUITE a bit more to carry around.

And not to mention that you could never play this game without a table. My party doesn't have a table within reach at all times, and this is forcing all the players to be gathered around one with this "party pool" and whatever.

 

 

You do realize the amaount of space needed is the same right? I mean, they're not table-size cards, they're just the size of normal playcards... i bet they'll take more or less the same amount of space as your normal pieces of paper... more than that what do you have to carry? the custom dices? you already carry dices with you, you just have to replace your normal ones with the custom. The books? somewhere has been said they'll be between 98 and 120 pages, not a big deal in space taken imho...

Miore than this you have nothing, the "Character Boxee" are just somethin you can use, you are not forced to use them...

About the ABSOLUTE NEED of a table you can go on doing exactly as you have done so far, since you do not have miniatures or a board to use... the "party pool" can be just held by one of the players or by the GM... i really do not see the tragedy...

I do not what to seem someone who has to defend this game from every attach, but these are just poor objection...

 

Everything is just in my opinion, i would like to point this out really well, i do not speak of unquestionable thruth...

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