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Crimsonsphinx

A whole book of guns, yet all the players use the same ones?

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I remember reading in the IH that autoguns are often used to train military units in the Imperium due to their high rate of fire. This allows recruits to actually hit something fairly frequently. Consequently it also says they are quite popular in PDF forces where the skill level is usually below par. Therefore its reasonable to suggest that a guardsman might have experience with autoguns and know which one hits the hardest.

Also the only reason guardsmen use lasguns is due to the battles they're fighting. These guys are expected to land on a hostile planet with little to no reinforcements or available supply lines. Then they have to secure a headpoint and fight the enemy until aid arrives which might take anything from weeks to years. Thus the lasgun with what ease it is supplied with ammunition is their best friend. Think of it as the AK-47 of the future only you can leave it out in the sun for a day and it'll have a whole clip of ammo the next.

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Inquisitor Lord Auron said:

secondly  I limit my players to one riffle sized gun on a back strap so they have to choose what weapon it is the havealso its more realistic

I do something similar.  A character in my games has a number of "slots" if you will, with a basic weapon taking up two, pistols one, and ccws 1 or two depending on how many hands it needs.  By limiting them to 6 slots [ two for hands, two on back] and two single ones on the front of the body, eg holstered, belt, it means my players can't carry around too many weapons, although being able to carry 2 basic weapons, 1 pistol and 1 ccw is more than enough for anyone being sensible IMO.

So, while we have been discussing the various merits of why players might pick guns, can I ask if any GMs have ever asked their players to use something different, or attempted to encourage them to use different weapons from the norm in their group?

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On the note of what's "iconic" vs what's "effective", my players may well choose not to use las weaponry, which is fine (though the tech-priest is an absoloute mass-murderer with his sollex death-light), but I'll make **** sure it's still iconic. If the players aren't using las weaponry, you bet regiments of imperial guard and PDf forces will all be toting lasrifles, and any firefight involving them will be absolutely criss-crossed with lasbeams. Bounty hunters, magistratum, gangers, and whoever else I want will all use laspistols. Elite shock troops, sisters of battle, the Temple tendency, gang lords etc will be carrying bolt guns. I go into nearly pornographic detail in game describing the action and effects of these weaons, so you bet that even if the players don't actually use the weapons themselves, they'll be very much a part of the universe they're living in. Luckily my group use both a boltgun and a lasrifle, so it's not too bad.

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Crimsonsphinx said:

Inquisitor Lord Auron said:

 

secondly  I limit my players to one riffle sized gun on a back strap so they have to choose what weapon it is the havealso its more realistic

 

 

I do something similar.  A character in my games has a number of "slots" if you will, with a basic weapon taking up two, pistols one, and ccws 1 or two depending on how many hands it needs.  By limiting them to 6 slots [ two for hands, two on back] and two single ones on the front of the body, eg holstered, belt, it means my players can't carry around too many weapons, although being able to carry 2 basic weapons, 1 pistol and 1 ccw is more than enough for anyone being sensible IMO.

So, while we have been discussing the various merits of why players might pick guns, can I ask if any GMs have ever asked their players to use something different, or attempted to encourage them to use different weapons from the norm in their group?

I think it is very dependant on how the group interact.

When preparing for a mission my group is very delgation orientated.  So the Tech Priest will aquire the equipment needed and collate any data that has been aquired, the Psyker looks at the background and tries to work out how the mission might fit into the wider investigation, the Arbitrator looks over the area the PC's are going into and tries to use his contacts to find more information, finally the guardsman gets any extra weapons and armour.

Because of this the players do sometimes end up with similar weapons but this is ok beacuse it makes sense i nthe context of the game.  The guardsman is a weapons expert and is buying in bulk.

What I do do though is remind my players what they might know and what their characters know.

IF this doesn't work i add in a few extra little obstacles.  For example in this case I might say manstopper bullets damage the barrel of the Armaggedon pattern autogun after extended use.  Classic problem.  "What you didn't know about it?  Well thats because your a Cleric not an artisian..>"  

 

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This is sad, GM's trying force their players to use less than optimal weapons. Even if you buff up other ones, the players will still use that which is more powerful, whether new or old. In the end you'll end up forcing them to use, in their opinion ,bad weapons and which in this game is like forcing them to choose less powerful abilities. They'll hate you for it.

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LordMunchkin said:

This is sad, GM's trying force their players to use less than optimal weapons. Even if you buff up other ones, the players will still use that which is more powerful, whether new or old. In the end you'll end up forcing them to use, in their opinion ,bad weapons and which in this game is like forcing them to choose less powerful abilities. They'll hate you for it.

 

Yeah, just to be clear my problem wouldn't be PC's using powerful weapons but how they roleplayed coming to that decision.  If an adept or cleric decides to do a little research on the subject then all very well, but I don't like players doing things out of character.

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Visitor Q said:

LordMunchkin said:

 

This is sad, GM's trying force their players to use less than optimal weapons. Even if you buff up other ones, the players will still use that which is more powerful, whether new or old. In the end you'll end up forcing them to use, in their opinion ,bad weapons and which in this game is like forcing them to choose less powerful abilities. They'll hate you for it.

 

 

 

Yeah, just to be clear my problem wouldn't be PC's using powerful weapons but how they roleplayed coming to that decision.  If an adept or cleric decides to do a little research on the subject then all very well, but I don't like players doing things out of character.

 

Quite so.

I have a backup Psyker incase my current character is killed. He's from a Feudal World and uses a Musket, believing the spirit of the Emperor is in weapons who have been crafted by artists and with great care. Ya'll can keep your crappy mass produced weaponary :P

Also, I have an Assassin who believes the bolt pistol he has is identical to an Astartes one.

The characters should choose the weaponary, not the player.

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One of the characters in my game got ahold of a hellgun in an especially hairy situation early on.  He fought his way out with it and ever since its been his very best friend.  He's named it, had the name and various prayers engraved on it, and carries it on any mission he's allowed to, even if/when bigger nastier weapons are available. (Which, as my game is at approx 9,000XP at this point, comes up more often than you'd think.)

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As I understand it, experimental real-world laser weapons are kind of like the power Incinerate: great at cutting metal, but power-hungry and too slow to be practical.

If I GM, I'll probably simply add 1to the Pen. of all Las weapons with a listed Pen. less than 3. Hellguns are already quite good.

 

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If one wanted to really improve lasweapons (which I don't happy.gif -- I think they're fine), I would take into account that they are lasers, beams of light that move at c. They have near-zero time to impact and are unaffected bt gravity, wind conditions, etc. (except for dusk and smoke). You point the barrel at something, and it will hit that point.

Give them all the Accurate quality; or just a base +10% to hit.

 

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The biggest weakness of the SP line is its ammo consumption, which there will be a lot of with the autogun fanatics. Missions are resource limited, and boxes of ammo just are not things you tote around to most places. After a few good fire fights or days, weeks of a larger scale battle, ammo becomes scare, perhaps next to impossible to get, and las weaponry starts to shine. Tech-Priest can charge las packs, but has yet to develop the power to crap bullets.

But as has been said page after page, if your players are getting unlimited access to the ammunition, SP will rule the day, again, and again.

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This may not be the best solution for your group, but sometimes i will limit what a player can get a hold of by their job type or their portrayed personality. 

For instance, a inquisitor who always is talking, and very diplomatic, commonly finding himself in the company of nobles, well he just wont walk around with a massive boltgun at his side, so instead he has a elegant laspistol. 

Our Sororitas player wont use any non-consecrated weapons unless its a emergency.  So she frequently is unarmed when in public and not able to be in her power armour or holding her boltgun or eviserator. 

just ideas to help character portrayal along...

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Inquisitor Renfield said:

For instance, a inquisitor who always is talking, and very diplomatic, commonly finding himself in the company of nobles, well he just wont walk around with a massive boltgun at his side, so instead he has a elegant laspistol. 

That being said, nobles do frequently carry bolt pistols as side-arms. The boltgun might be a weapon of war, but the bolt pistol is more a weapon of status and rank.

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Likewise, someone who hangs around a lot with nobles might have a dueling sidearm. I just rolled up a noble character, and her pistol is a Fatebringer. Of course, there are necessary details that go with this. She doesn't have a red-dot on the pistol because that would be inappropriate for a dueling weapon, for example.

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Yes, I agree.  I suppose what i meant was that sometimes its fun to try and think about what its like carrying around such a weapon to high society, or when ladys fawn at your side or some such.  And that it might make more sense as a person, to leave the bigger guns at home and just go with somthing small and as unobtrusive as possible, if anything at all. 

 

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Inquisitor Renfield said:

Yes, I agree.  I suppose what i meant was that sometimes its fun to try and think about what its like carrying around such a weapon to high society, or when ladys fawn at your side or some such.  And that it might make more sense as a person, to leave the bigger guns at home and just go with somthing small and as unobtrusive as possible, if anything at all. 

I agree. I play a noble born character in one of the campaigns im involved in and he has collected a few weapons over time. At first he was only equipped with expensive duelling weapons (Khayer-Addin duelling las and a best quality sword with mono upgrade). Besides that he had a Cathechist pattern Stake Launcher, but that was an heirloom and way to big to bring to a formal occasion.

Now he sports a fine quality Mauler bolt pistol and have had a few modifications done to his duelling las and sword (the pistol has duplus ammo clips and the sword has been reforged to a lathe blade and been sanctified). But the pistols and the sword would definetly fit in at social gatherings and formal occasions, which is the point.

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Yeah, I was thinking of a Lathe Blade for mine as well. She's a Templar, but is being trained to not rely directly on Psychic Powers (a branch of her family was whiped out by the Slaught, and all they know is that they were killed by someone powerful and immune to Psychic Powers). So I'm hoping to give her a Lathe Blade instead of the customary Force Weapon.

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Crimsonsphinx said:

Having run two campaigns in Dark Heresy, what is concerning is that despite having the Inquisitors Handbook and its collections of guns, and providing weapons for use, my parties have all pretty much bought the same weapons.

Armaggedon Autoguns with manstoppers

Normal Autoguns with manstoppers

Orthlac mk 4 pistols with manstoppers

Does anyone else have this happen in their games?  Do you do anything to encourage them to use different weapons?  I realise better weapons exist, but they are mostly prohibitively expensive.

tie weapons to character birth location, someone born in a hive would have a different selection of weapons than a void dweller, just select a few  weapons for each group and lower the cost a bit.  Later the players will look at other weapons.  

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Trace_SL said:

someone born in a hive would have a different selection of weapons than a void dweller, just select a few  weapons for each group and lower the cost a bit.  Later the players will look at other weapons.  

Nice idea. I'll include as a houserule to my games as it'll encourage my players to put more thought into their background.

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Okay, I just don't get it.  Why would players, especially "power-gamers" not want Bolt weapons and, instead of Power Weapons, Chain Weapons.  The Tearing quality is, in my mind, the ultimate equalizer.  My character in my last game wouldn't have dreamed of using anything else.  A bolt-gun and a chain-sword, are all that anyone should ever need.  Just that many more opportunities for Righteous Fury.  JMHO.

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Sister Cat said:

Okay, I just don't get it.  Why would players, especially "power-gamers" not want Bolt weapons and, instead of Power Weapons, Chain Weapons.  The Tearing quality is, in my mind, the ultimate equalizer.  My character in my last game wouldn't have dreamed of using anything else.  A bolt-gun and a chain-sword, are all that anyone should ever need.  Just that many more opportunities for Righteous Fury.  JMHO.

Pth. I'll take a zip gun and a volg mercy killer, thankyouverymuch. :D

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There is a reason why in Imperial Guard units most troopers carry exactly same gun with the exception of one or two heavy weapon troopers. Because that particular gun is the best compromise between cost, size (you have to carry it around a lot, don't you?), damage, clip capacity and availability. The heavy weapons are used for special purposes for which the regular issue lasgun or autogun doesn't pack the required punch.

In my honest opinion there is nothing wrong for equipping acolytes uniformly. In my current squad of acolytes one of them has a club, a laspistol and an autogun while everyone else is carrying clubs, laspistols and combat shotguns. Then again they *are* an Adeptus Arbites squad...

  

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