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DagobahDave

Ptolus was $120

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And it was just an RPG supplement.

Complaining about the $100 price tag on WFRP3 is fine if you've already decided it's a game you'd like to try out.

But it's just silly to complain about the 4-player limit, the board game feel, the funky dice, the cards, the ruins of your favorite game and then argue that the price is too high. The price isn't too high if it's a game you don't plan to buy anyway.

I didn't buy Ptolus, but it didn't have anything to do with the price.

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DagobahDave said:

 

 

 

I thought so too, but Ptolus sold out a long time ago and the secondary market prices are crazy.

Nature of the beast, it was essentially a limited run aimed at people with a lot of money and actually sold on the fact it was huge and expensive. Its not really comparable to the new WFRP, if anything its a better comparison to the more to the limited edition Rogue Trader.

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If you price things out, it's $34 a player.  That's the same cost as D&D..and yes, the players can take home the books right?   Character sheets can be photocopied.  Dice can be shared.  Cards can be copied, shared whatever.  Unless the system is HORRIBLY BROKEN my guess is that the 3 player max is that there are cards/dice enough for 3 players.  If you need more, make it happen.  I intend to.  Since I've never played it however, we'll see what the GEN CON reports are ;)

The cynical side of me thinks that some people are just mad that this thing is going to be more difficult to pirate and isn't a Tilea supplement for a game that is only 4 years old and getting a new edition.  The rational side of me says, some people will be smart until the "players" version comes out at a price of $40.

 

jh

 

 

..

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Emirikol said:

If you price things out, it's $34 a player.  That's the same cost as D&D..and yes, the players can take home the books right?   Character sheets can be photocopied.  Dice can be shared.  Cards can be copied, shared whatever.  Unless the system is HORRIBLY BROKEN my guess is that the 3 player max is that there are cards/dice enough for 3 players.  If you need more, make it happen.  I intend to.  Since I've never played it however, we'll see what the GEN CON reports are ;)

If you have a group that shares the costs I'd be well and truly ******* amazed. In over 15 years of playing rpg's I have NEVER met another GM who's group shares the costs. The GM always ends up shelling out for the new books.

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Foolishboy said:

 

Emirikol said:

 

If you price things out, it's $34 a player.  That's the same cost as D&D..and yes, the players can take home the books right?   Character sheets can be photocopied.  Dice can be shared.  Cards can be copied, shared whatever.  Unless the system is HORRIBLY BROKEN my guess is that the 3 player max is that there are cards/dice enough for 3 players.  If you need more, make it happen.  I intend to.  Since I've never played it however, we'll see what the GEN CON reports are ;)

 

 

If you have a group that shares the costs I'd be well and truly ******* amazed. In over 15 years of playing rpg's I have NEVER met another GM who's group shares the costs. The GM always ends up shelling out for the new books.

 

 

That's exactly the boat I'm in, as are a lot of GMs I'm sure.  If I want my group to try a new game, I'm the one who has to introduce it to them.  Also, a quick note on Ptolus: that price tag netted you over 1,000 pages worth of content if you include everything on the CD that came with the book, which was itself nearly 800 pages.  We still have no idea how thick the books in the Warhammer boxed set will be, though each one would have to be a full-sized supplement to compete with Ptolus.

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Emirikol said:

Character sheets can be photocopied.  Dice can be shared.  Cards can be copied, shared whatever.  Unless the system is HORRIBLY BROKEN my guess is that the 3 player max is that there are cards/dice enough for 3 players.  If you need more, make it happen.  I intend to.

I'm sure you're right about that.

The cards seem to exist to be convenient for the players. It should be possible -- but not as convenient -- to push the player limit on the core game.

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Sythorn said:

That's exactly the boat I'm in, as are a lot of GMs I'm sure.  If I want my group to try a new game, I'm the one who has to introduce it to them.  Also, a quick note on Ptolus: that price tag netted you over 1,000 pages worth of content if you include everything on the CD that came with the book, which was itself nearly 800 pages.  We still have no idea how thick the books in the Warhammer boxed set will be, though each one would have to be a full-sized supplement to compete with Ptolus.

 

 

I have logged back in to agree with this. There is no comparing Ptolus with this box set.

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1010 Cloud Deck said:

I have logged back in to agree with this. There is no comparing Ptolus with this box set.

This thread got away from the original topic pretty quick. I'm not comparing WFRP3 to Ptolus. I'm saying that it's silly to flame the game for its design and then complain about the price when you've already decided not to buy it.

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Foolishboy said:

 

If you have a group that shares the costs I'd be well and truly.. amazed. In over 15 years of playing rpg's I have NEVER met another GM who's group shares the costs. The GM always ends up shelling out for the new books.

 

My players buy me stuff all the time but it's more the 3d stuff. But, I know what you mean.  For WFRP2 for example, I only had to buy about $300 worth of stuff and there was zero player stuff.  That's just how it is.

Don't your players buy you stuff?  Maybe you could ask them.  I tell my players to buy me stuff they want me to run.

jh

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DagobahDave said:

 

 I'm saying that it's silly to flame the game for its design and then complain about the price when you've already decided not to buy it.

Don't you realise that many of the fans that don't like the proposed mechanics may have given the game a chance if it was available at a sensible starter package price?

Dave on another note I think we get that you are in favour of WFRPv3, now rather than calling us silly or other insults, why don't you try a little human empathy. A large group of people have just been told out of blue that their hobby is ending they willl never get another supplement or any future support for it. The natural reaction to this is anger, the disapointed fans being rude (like I am now) and shouting about how terrible the new game looks is a way of  releasing that anger. Once the anger dies down they will most likely become curious about the new edition and then they can approach the game with an open mind. Unfortunately you seem to have decided you need to argue with everyone that is already angry and upset, which makes them even more upset, angry and unreasonable. If you truly want to help your fellow gamers come to terms with the new game then SHUT UP, stop arguing, take the weekend off, let us vent our anger, get it all out of our systems and then on monday explain why WFRPv3 is a good thing. I think you'll find a much more receptive  audience at that point.

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Silent Star said:

 

Dave on another note I think we get that you are in favour of WFRPv3, now rather than calling us silly or other insults, why don't you try a little human empathy. A large group of people have just been told out of blue that their hobby is ending they willl never get another supplement or any future support for it. The natural reaction to this is anger, the disapointed fans being rude (like I am now) and shouting about how terrible the new game looks is a way of  releasing that anger. Once the anger dies down they will most likely become curious about the new edition and then they can approach the game with an open mind. Unfortunately you seem to have decided you need to argue with everyone that is already angry and upset, which makes them even more upset, angry and unreasonable. If you truly want to help your fellow gamers come to terms with the new game then SHUT UP, stop arguing, take the weekend off, let us vent our anger, get it all out of our systems and then on monday explain why WFRPv3 is a good thing. I think you'll find a much more receptive  audience at that point.

 

 

Some of those people I've argued with (if that's really how you see it) have changed their minds, or softened their initial opinions about the game. Maybe this weekend I want to drop in and be able to discuss the merits of the game without it devolving into this sort of thing, again. It's real tough to post anything positive about the game here, so I have to fire a lot of shots in order for one to get through.

I don't think I've said anything here that would get my a warning at RPGnet, and I certainly haven't made any personal attacks. I've made disparaging remarks about the way others express their frustration, but after the first couple of dozen, it does all start to look like a whole lot of wasted effort. If you look more closely at the material, you see that there's a lot less to worry about.

There I go again.

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Emirikol said:

Foolishboy said:

 

 

If you have a group that shares the costs I'd be well and truly.. amazed. In over 15 years of playing rpg's I have NEVER met another GM who's group shares the costs. The GM always ends up shelling out for the new books.

 

 

My players buy me stuff all the time but it's more the 3d stuff. But, I know what you mean.  For WFRP2 for example, I only had to buy about $300 worth of stuff and there was zero player stuff.  That's just how it is.

Don't your players buy you stuff?  Maybe you could ask them.  I tell my players to buy me stuff they want me to run.

jh

 

You have you're players BUY YOU stuff?  Wow, you got quite the gig working there, no wonder you have no qualms about this seeing that you'll probably get the new Warhammer 3e for free.

Not everyone is as stupid as your players.  Some actually like to keep the stuff they buy.  I wouldn't buy squat to give to someone else just so someone else could run something.  That's called WASTING my money.  On the otherhand, if I am going to allow it, and want it, I'll buy it myself as well.  People I play with don't waste their money on other people's stuff either.

You have a nice gig going there though.  Players desperate enough to have someone GM for them that they'll plunk down their own money in payment to someone else.  If you really do it well, maybe you can convince them to buy you a car so that you can drive to wherever game night is, afterall, inflation, bad economy, and all.

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DagobahDave said:

1010 Cloud Deck said:

 

This thread got away from the original topic pretty quick. I'm not comparing WFRP3 to Ptolus. I'm saying that it's silly to flame the game for its design and then complain about the price when you've already decided not to buy it.

 

Yes the Ptolus was $120, but the book was EXTREMELY well made and was very in depth.  I have yet to see anything that has come close to it.  So, MAYBE, if the new system is very well made it might be worth the price ... BUT

1. The Ptolus book was NOT sealed in a box, if you are intrested in it., you can pick it up flip though it and look at the material and decide if you realy wanted to shell out the cash for it.  3rd Ed. WHFRP doesn't offer you that option.  You just have to take a leap of faith with your $100 unless you know some one who made the leap first... (this is accually my plan for 3rd Ed.)

2. Ptolus was a supplement for a game system I knew and  I liked.  The new 3rd Ed. is a BIG unknown with all the strange changes.  Your betting $100 on if you'll like several MAJOR changes to the system.  Again I plan to let some one else buy the thing as see if any good ... right now I really don't know.

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Emirikol said:

Don't your players buy you stuff?  Maybe you could ask them.  I tell my players to buy me stuff they want me to run.

My players don't buy me stuff, but I think it's awesome that yours do. In the end though I think WFRP3 is really going to be a GM's purchase. For what they pay for it, the character sheets and everything will stay in the box, with the GM. Players who spill soda on their character-keepers will find out pretty quickly the cost of the Adventurer's Toolkit -- which looks like it's pretty much a must-buy if it contains new careers.

That $100 price tag is right at the breaking point, I think. It's just high enough to make you hesitate, even if you're like me and really interested in it. It's about $30 higher than most RPGers would be willing to pay for their favoritest game, even at a stretch.

It'll be interesting. In reality I think most of us will be clever enough to get it for less than sticker price.

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Bought Ptolus on Amazon.ca for 80$CAD, hardly 120$US. Worth any penny of it. Indepth and amazing setting.

 

As told by the previous poster, Ptolus is an entirely different thing than WFRP3. I already knew the system and you could flip its pages (I did that in a store just to make sure it was top-notch quality).

Here, we are just making a leap in the dark for an hefty price.

Honestly, I guess there are a lot of people like me who might be interested by the game, but are turnoff by the price. I hope FFG will disclose free material/videos/whatever to entice us buying it.

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GreyLord said:

Emirikol said:

 

Foolishboy said:

 

 

If you have a group that shares the costs I'd be well and truly.. amazed. In over 15 years of playing rpg's I have NEVER met another GM who's group shares the costs. The GM always ends up shelling out for the new books.

 

 

My players buy me stuff all the time but it's more the 3d stuff. But, I know what you mean.  For WFRP2 for example, I only had to buy about $300 worth of stuff and there was zero player stuff.  That's just how it is.

Don't your players buy you stuff?  Maybe you could ask them.  I tell my players to buy me stuff they want me to run.

jh

 

 

 

You have you're players BUY YOU stuff?  Wow, you got quite the gig working there, no wonder you have no qualms about this seeing that you'll probably get the new Warhammer 3e for free.

Not everyone is as stupid as your players.  Some actually like to keep the stuff they buy.  I wouldn't buy squat to give to someone else just so someone else could run something.  That's called WASTING my money.  On the otherhand, if I am going to allow it, and want it, I'll buy it myself as well.  People I play with don't waste their money on other people's stuff either.

You have a nice gig going there though.  Players desperate enough to have someone GM for them that they'll plunk down their own money in payment to someone else.  If you really do it well, maybe you can convince them to buy you a car so that you can drive to wherever game night is, afterall, inflation, bad economy, and all.

What is stupid about buying a GM a game you would like him to run? Ever buy someone else a movie ticket? Same thing, you are covering someone elses cost to enhance your entertainment experience. I enjoy going to the movies with someone else whether a date or a just a friend and if I ask them to go I pay. If I want to play (not GM but play) a game that my group is not currently playing buying the corebook for our main GM is a **** good idea.

 

It depends on who you game with I guess. The core of my gaming group has been together for 20 years, the new guy has been with us for at least five (and I've known him from before I met the others). We are friends not just the guys that show up at the gaming store (though that is how we got our start). So to me buying a friend that I have spent thousands of hours with over the years a gift just doesen't seem that stupid. Thinking about it here I think it is shameful that I haven't bought these guys more things over the years.


 

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Good point, I personally don't care if it cost $50. I would not buy it since it is way off target. And I don't understand why FFG not just made some good tools to help playing WFRP 2nd Ed?

I mean they have a quality set of core 2nd Ed rules, and could expanded on that and sold a lot of extra cards and other plastic stuff to make the game easier and more appealing for new comers. A lot of possibilites for selling merchandice also...

 

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John Tansen said:

1. The Ptolus book was NOT sealed in a box, if you are intrested in it., you can pick it up flip though it and look at the material and decide if you realy wanted to shell out the cash for it.

I never saw Ptolus on a game shop shelf, myself. I think most of those who bought it preordered it, or got it over Internet. There were plenty of previews as well, which I hope FFG will be doing for WFRPv3.

One of the best purchases I've made. It is massive and cool. gran_risa.gif

/M

 

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One thing to remember about Ptolus: it is expensive to produce a book of that quality. But it is at the same time even more expensive to produce a box set with a lot of content, such as Descent, Arkham Horror or WFRPv3.

I think the 100 dollar price tag is high, but I'm really not surprised considering the format and contents. These things cost a lot to produce.

/M

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Emirikol said:

 

 

My players buy me stuff all the time.

Consider me well and truly ..... Amazed.

(Sorry about swearing earlier I don't normally and almost never when I'm typing, but I was just so shocked by the suggestion that Players would actually put some money into the game. It's just such an alien concept, I agree it would be great but I don't think I have ever met Players that would chip in.)

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Kriegtanzer said:

What is stupid about buying a GM a game you would like him to run?

It may well be the GM-abundant environment I live and game in, but when people want to try out a game, they typically run it themselves rather than buying it for a local GM of choice.

Kriegtanzer said:

Ever buy someone else a movie ticket?

Sure. Unless it's a birthday or other special occasion, I get paid back the cost of it afterwards though, and if someone else books the tickets, I'll pay them back when I get there in much the same manner. Quite frankly, I arrange trips to the cinema far too often to be paying for everyone.

While your situation does sound enviable, I don't think you should expect it to be anything like a standard approach to the situation.

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